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	<title>Comments on: Breaking disk encryption with RAM dumps</title>
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		<title>By: noone</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-184870</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[noone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2010 03:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-184870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Step 1:
Modify/Create encryption software so that it can detect when the OS has been locked either via the user or automatically. Then after 10/15 seconds (depending on user settings), have the encryption software isolate/protect itself in a small area of memory (if not done already), while re-encrypting the rest of the RAM with the original key. Then overwrite (with random data) the area of memory in the isolated section that stores the key.

This should be able to be done via the software in a few seconds. The only way to restore the session would be for the user to enter their encryption password, which would return them to the OS&#039;s lockout screen, whereby they would have to enter their user account password within 10/15 seconds or it would again re-lock/encrypt.

While this method isn&#039;t perfect, it does offer increased security. The only way of getting the data/key then, would be to shut off all power to the machine quickly before any OS lockout occurs, then boot the machine to your device or remove the RAM and place in another machine to boot to your device. See next step for increased security.

Step 2:
The software could modify the BIOS to force a full RAM test (RAM fill) every time the computer is booted (force it to occur before any booting can take place). This will fill the RAM with random/null data as part of the test, thereby wiping any retained memory before anyone can boot into any device to make a copy of the memory.

This eliminates someone quickly shutting off power to the machine and then quickly booting into their device to copy the memory. But it does not stop them powering off the machine, spraying the RAM to cool it, removing the RAM and inserting into another machine that will boot to their device. So again, it is increased security but it is far from perfect.

Step 3:
Implement specialist hardware to solve the remaining vulnerabilities, for example:
RAM that loses all of it&#039;s memory upon power loss within 5 seconds at room temperature
A machine case that requires a key to open, so nobody can access the internal hardware without damaging the case
An internal mechanism that can tell when the machine case is being tampered with (unauthorized access) and upon detection will wipe the RAM


Alternative Option:
Create/Modify encryption software to store the entered key onto a hardware key e.g. a USB drive, rather than in the RAM. If the USB is removed the encryption software (in RAM) will either lockout the user, shut down the machine, or wipe what is in RAM (except itself) before then shutting down. This will eliminate anyone getting the key from the RAM, but does not protect the unencrypted data still residing in RAM. Also the additional problem is introduced of the USB drive becoming the vulnerability; perhaps have a special purpose USB drive that uses a type of fast fading RAM rather than flash. So if it is taken the memory will fade quickly, and if the drive has a secure housing, it would be difficult to obtain any residual memory as they would not be able to get to the chip quick enough to cool it or copy data.

Conclusion:
All these ideas need refinement, but a combination of the above methods would make it exceptionally difficult to obtain the user&#039;s key or data. Some of the options are cheap and easy to implement, others are not. It all depends on how much the user is willing to spend. Spend enough, using most of these options and nothing will get your data except an extremely well planned attack, or a vulnerability presented due to user error (e.g. easy to guess pass key / user not watching who is watching them / user leaving a machine with extremely sensitive data unattended.... etc).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Step 1:<br />
Modify/Create encryption software so that it can detect when the OS has been locked either via the user or automatically. Then after 10/15 seconds (depending on user settings), have the encryption software isolate/protect itself in a small area of memory (if not done already), while re-encrypting the rest of the RAM with the original key. Then overwrite (with random data) the area of memory in the isolated section that stores the key.</p>
<p>This should be able to be done via the software in a few seconds. The only way to restore the session would be for the user to enter their encryption password, which would return them to the OS&#8217;s lockout screen, whereby they would have to enter their user account password within 10/15 seconds or it would again re-lock/encrypt.</p>
<p>While this method isn&#8217;t perfect, it does offer increased security. The only way of getting the data/key then, would be to shut off all power to the machine quickly before any OS lockout occurs, then boot the machine to your device or remove the RAM and place in another machine to boot to your device. See next step for increased security.</p>
<p>Step 2:<br />
The software could modify the BIOS to force a full RAM test (RAM fill) every time the computer is booted (force it to occur before any booting can take place). This will fill the RAM with random/null data as part of the test, thereby wiping any retained memory before anyone can boot into any device to make a copy of the memory.</p>
<p>This eliminates someone quickly shutting off power to the machine and then quickly booting into their device to copy the memory. But it does not stop them powering off the machine, spraying the RAM to cool it, removing the RAM and inserting into another machine that will boot to their device. So again, it is increased security but it is far from perfect.</p>
<p>Step 3:<br />
Implement specialist hardware to solve the remaining vulnerabilities, for example:<br />
RAM that loses all of it&#8217;s memory upon power loss within 5 seconds at room temperature<br />
A machine case that requires a key to open, so nobody can access the internal hardware without damaging the case<br />
An internal mechanism that can tell when the machine case is being tampered with (unauthorized access) and upon detection will wipe the RAM</p>
<p>Alternative Option:<br />
Create/Modify encryption software to store the entered key onto a hardware key e.g. a USB drive, rather than in the RAM. If the USB is removed the encryption software (in RAM) will either lockout the user, shut down the machine, or wipe what is in RAM (except itself) before then shutting down. This will eliminate anyone getting the key from the RAM, but does not protect the unencrypted data still residing in RAM. Also the additional problem is introduced of the USB drive becoming the vulnerability; perhaps have a special purpose USB drive that uses a type of fast fading RAM rather than flash. So if it is taken the memory will fade quickly, and if the drive has a secure housing, it would be difficult to obtain any residual memory as they would not be able to get to the chip quick enough to cool it or copy data.</p>
<p>Conclusion:<br />
All these ideas need refinement, but a combination of the above methods would make it exceptionally difficult to obtain the user&#8217;s key or data. Some of the options are cheap and easy to implement, others are not. It all depends on how much the user is willing to spend. Spend enough, using most of these options and nothing will get your data except an extremely well planned attack, or a vulnerability presented due to user error (e.g. easy to guess pass key / user not watching who is watching them / user leaving a machine with extremely sensitive data unattended&#8230;. etc).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-153923</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-153923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just use a Compaq. All of their hardware is soldered in, isn&#039;t it ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just use a Compaq. All of their hardware is soldered in, isn&#8217;t it ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jorge</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-140944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jorge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 17:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-140944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why not just epoxy your ram modules into their slots? I mean some nasty super-strong epoxy. Something resilient to physical, chemical, and temperature attacks. Sure, they will eventually get in, but not in enough time. You will also need things like BIOS-level password protection to prevent booting into their program. Some epoxy on the BIOS chip and CMOS battery/battery holder (so they cant cut the leads) to prevent resetting the BIOS.

I mean, thats if you WANT to. I&#039;m sure the number of people out there capable, or even aware, of this attack is extremely low. You&#039;re most likely going to have your laptop stolen by someone who isn&#039;t familiar with this type of attack.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not just epoxy your ram modules into their slots? I mean some nasty super-strong epoxy. Something resilient to physical, chemical, and temperature attacks. Sure, they will eventually get in, but not in enough time. You will also need things like BIOS-level password protection to prevent booting into their program. Some epoxy on the BIOS chip and CMOS battery/battery holder (so they cant cut the leads) to prevent resetting the BIOS.</p>
<p>I mean, thats if you WANT to. I&#8217;m sure the number of people out there capable, or even aware, of this attack is extremely low. You&#8217;re most likely going to have your laptop stolen by someone who isn&#8217;t familiar with this type of attack.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: x86</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-137072</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[x86]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-137072</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How can you reduce this threat? You can turn off USB booting and then put a password on the BIOS to prevent the specific activity shown in the video

 .... Did you not see the tactic demonstrated for recovering dumped ram.. Bios password,hahaha remove the CMOS battery and it&#039;ll reset. BIOMETRIC in the bios and even then a piece of scotch tape foiled your secret data.

irc.2600.net #backtrace]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can you reduce this threat? You can turn off USB booting and then put a password on the BIOS to prevent the specific activity shown in the video</p>
<p> &#8230;. Did you not see the tactic demonstrated for recovering dumped ram.. Bios password,hahaha remove the CMOS battery and it&#8217;ll reset. BIOMETRIC in the bios and even then a piece of scotch tape foiled your secret data.</p>
<p>irc.2600.net #backtrace</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mic</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-67299</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-67299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If your data is seriously way to important to have compromised... Presenting, &quot;The ultimate in data protection&quot; Hmm not so imaginative, but how about a grenade ducktaped to your laptop and rigged up. &quot;100% Guaranteed to erase all data ( and persons)!&quot;. Or a smaller less catastrophic thing thats a little more Discrete. Thermite is phun...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If your data is seriously way to important to have compromised&#8230; Presenting, &#8220;The ultimate in data protection&#8221; Hmm not so imaginative, but how about a grenade ducktaped to your laptop and rigged up. &#8220;100% Guaranteed to erase all data ( and persons)!&#8221;. Or a smaller less catastrophic thing thats a little more Discrete. Thermite is phun&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-67295</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-67295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i think we are looking at dedicated memory for the storage of keys as the only solution. this memory should be removable from the laptop so that the owner always takes it with them (its back to common sense here).

if attacker finds an unattended laptop the key isn’t there.

lookup IronKey usb drives surly this technology can be applied to external hard disks as well?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think we are looking at dedicated memory for the storage of keys as the only solution. this memory should be removable from the laptop so that the owner always takes it with them (its back to common sense here).</p>
<p>if attacker finds an unattended laptop the key isn’t there.</p>
<p>lookup IronKey usb drives surly this technology can be applied to external hard disks as well?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dick</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-65751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-65751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[wouldn&#039;t it help to just bury the hd (and PC) into a wall or ceiling and use rf links to mouse, keyboard, and monitor?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wouldn&#8217;t it help to just bury the hd (and PC) into a wall or ceiling and use rf links to mouse, keyboard, and monitor?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-64295</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-64295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Linux Gentoo variant Incognito (KDE env) has a file named halt.sh that runs at shutdown and overwrites memory with the command: /usr/bin/smem &gt; /dev/null.

I am experimenting with modifying the halt script at shutdown in a Live CD environment of Ubuntu 8.10 (Gnome env).  It looks like there is a configuration parameter that sets HALT=poweroff that might be able to be changed to HALT=halt, so that it might be possible to work it into the script to execute just before powering off (possibly manually).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Linux Gentoo variant Incognito (KDE env) has a file named halt.sh that runs at shutdown and overwrites memory with the command: /usr/bin/smem &gt; /dev/null.</p>
<p>I am experimenting with modifying the halt script at shutdown in a Live CD environment of Ubuntu 8.10 (Gnome env).  It looks like there is a configuration parameter that sets HALT=poweroff that might be able to be changed to HALT=halt, so that it might be possible to work it into the script to execute just before powering off (possibly manually).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel Craig</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-58449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Craig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-58449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, I was looking around for a while searching for Encryption Disk Security Software and I happened upon this site and your post regarding ing disk encryption with RAM dumps  - Hack a Day, I will definitely this to my Encryption Disk Security Software bookmarks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I was looking around for a while searching for Encryption Disk Security Software and I happened upon this site and your post regarding ing disk encryption with RAM dumps  &#8211; Hack a Day, I will definitely this to my Encryption Disk Security Software bookmarks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Shawn</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-31860</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shawn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 00:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-31860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Few thoughts and questions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Who would need security from this - what about credit card or insurance companies that deal with full social security numbers on a daily basis?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Like everyone else has said, running a shutdown program to wipe the RAM requires power to the system.  No power = no wipe = stolen info.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Biggest question is, are hard drives with a built-in security chip safe from something like this?  I think Western Digital or Seagate have drives like this.  The key is stored on the drive, not in RAM, so a different method is needed?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Few thoughts and questions.</p>
<p>Who would need security from this &#8211; what about credit card or insurance companies that deal with full social security numbers on a daily basis?</p>
<p>Like everyone else has said, running a shutdown program to wipe the RAM requires power to the system.  No power = no wipe = stolen info.</p>
<p>Biggest question is, are hard drives with a built-in security chip safe from something like this?  I think Western Digital or Seagate have drives like this.  The key is stored on the drive, not in RAM, so a different method is needed?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eliseo</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-31859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eliseo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-31859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Informative Article... AWESOME.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Informative Article&#8230; AWESOME.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy Esau</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-31858</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tracy Esau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-31858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i wanna get my hands on the juicy bit of the software....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i wanna get my hands on the juicy bit of the software&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: NoMiNaL eKrAsH</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-31857</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NoMiNaL eKrAsH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-31857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What good would it do to run a bootloader for the &quot;next&quot; reboot and then clear the ram? If the ram is going to be taken out and chilled then recovered. A hardware device might be a solution, but how bout an automatic memory slot ejactor, or pin contact release&lt;br&gt;that won&#039;t work for sleep or STR or disk hibernation. Some password recovery utilities use the same method of RAM recovery, not just registry or Hard drive flags and password or user policy and account ACL. We&#039;re stuck with normal environmental conditions here. OS code would have to be written to send electrical shorts to the RAM in sleep modes (there goes your desktop)or the power off switch and mobo would have to have a circuit that shorts the ram...probably not good for the RAM...there is nothing that shows this would be effective. RAM is a charge coupled device, And even if the BIOS zeroed anything that would take time on computer shutdown, even if a computer was left on you can still yank the ram out in a powered state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What good would it do to run a bootloader for the &#8220;next&#8221; reboot and then clear the ram? If the ram is going to be taken out and chilled then recovered. A hardware device might be a solution, but how bout an automatic memory slot ejactor, or pin contact release<br />that won&#8217;t work for sleep or STR or disk hibernation. Some password recovery utilities use the same method of RAM recovery, not just registry or Hard drive flags and password or user policy and account ACL. We&#8217;re stuck with normal environmental conditions here. OS code would have to be written to send electrical shorts to the RAM in sleep modes (there goes your desktop)or the power off switch and mobo would have to have a circuit that shorts the ram&#8230;probably not good for the RAM&#8230;there is nothing that shows this would be effective. RAM is a charge coupled device, And even if the BIOS zeroed anything that would take time on computer shutdown, even if a computer was left on you can still yank the ram out in a powered state.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: NoMiNaL eKrAsH</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-31856</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NoMiNaL eKrAsH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-31856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What good would it do to run a bootloader for the &quot;next&quot; reboot and then clear the ram? If the ram is going to be taken out and chilled then recovered. A hardware device might be a solution, but how bout an automatic memory slot ejactor, or pin contact release&lt;br&gt;that won&#039;t work for sleep or STR or disk hibernation. Some password recovery utilities use the same method of RAM recovery, not just registry or Hard drive flags and password or user policy and account ACL. We&#039;re stuck with normal environmental conditions here. OS code would have to be written to send electrical shorts to the RAM in sleep modes (there goes your desktop)or the power off switch and mobo would have to have a circuit that shorts the ram...probably not good for the RAM...there is nothing that shows this would be effective. RAM is a charge coupled device, And even if the BIOS zeroed anything that would take time on computer shutdown, even if a computer was left on you can still yank the ram out in a powered state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What good would it do to run a bootloader for the &#8220;next&#8221; reboot and then clear the ram? If the ram is going to be taken out and chilled then recovered. A hardware device might be a solution, but how bout an automatic memory slot ejactor, or pin contact release<br />that won&#8217;t work for sleep or STR or disk hibernation. Some password recovery utilities use the same method of RAM recovery, not just registry or Hard drive flags and password or user policy and account ACL. We&#8217;re stuck with normal environmental conditions here. OS code would have to be written to send electrical shorts to the RAM in sleep modes (there goes your desktop)or the power off switch and mobo would have to have a circuit that shorts the ram&#8230;probably not good for the RAM&#8230;there is nothing that shows this would be effective. RAM is a charge coupled device, And even if the BIOS zeroed anything that would take time on computer shutdown, even if a computer was left on you can still yank the ram out in a powered state.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chamunks</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/comment-page-1/#comment-31855</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chamunks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/02/21/breaking-disk-encryption-with-ram-dumps/#comment-31855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One last note:  You could also go so far as to be as paranoid as to make it difficult to access the pins on the rams chips.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One last note:  You could also go so far as to be as paranoid as to make it difficult to access the pins on the rams chips.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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