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	<title>Comments on: Open graphics card available for preorder</title>
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		<title>By: Atilla</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35456</link>
		<dc:creator>Atilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 11:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35456</guid>
		<description>14: I don&#039;t think ati or nv will care, unless this card proves to be a huge success, which is unlikely. They dominate the market anyway. This card is great for experimenting and development but lacks the performance any recent 3D accelerator would give.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>14: I don&#8217;t think ati or nv will care, unless this card proves to be a huge success, which is unlikely. They dominate the market anyway. This card is great for experimenting and development but lacks the performance any recent 3D accelerator would give.</p>
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		<title>By: FPGA & CPLD Blogs</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35455</link>
		<dc:creator>FPGA & CPLD Blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 20:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35455</guid>
		<description>I wonder what nvidia and ATI would think of this :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what nvidia and ATI would think of this :-)</p>
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		<title>By: csirac2</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35454</link>
		<dc:creator>csirac2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 12:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35454</guid>
		<description>Grahame, these guys are intricately familiar with PCI standards. They do, after all, plan on (or have already) synth&#039;d the logic to bridge from the PCI bus to the main FPGA. You couldn&#039;t do a prototype run of 100 units even if you had no logic to program your FPGAs with, without first having a fairly decent understanding of the PCI standards.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I highly doubt anything in your post that you&#039;ve said would make them change their mind about any of the plans they have so far.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry, but this not a video card. It&#039;s not being sold as such. No, they don&#039;t even have a market at this stage. It&#039;s basically a fund-raiser, being sold as an FPGA development kit, not a video card.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This card does not do anything useful when you receive it. It won&#039;t even display a test image (to my understanding). Hell, you are given a JTAG (I assume) cable so you can synth your own logic onto these otherwise blank FPGAs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Blank FPGAs means you have a useless board (unless you are an FPGA developer).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And for what it&#039;s worth, reworking for a PCI-e version is much, much more than just redoing the PCB artwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grahame, these guys are intricately familiar with PCI standards. They do, after all, plan on (or have already) synth&#8217;d the logic to bridge from the PCI bus to the main FPGA. You couldn&#8217;t do a prototype run of 100 units even if you had no logic to program your FPGAs with, without first having a fairly decent understanding of the PCI standards.</p>
<p>I highly doubt anything in your post that you&#8217;ve said would make them change their mind about any of the plans they have so far.</p>
<p>Sorry, but this not a video card. It&#8217;s not being sold as such. No, they don&#8217;t even have a market at this stage. It&#8217;s basically a fund-raiser, being sold as an FPGA development kit, not a video card.</p>
<p>This card does not do anything useful when you receive it. It won&#8217;t even display a test image (to my understanding). Hell, you are given a JTAG (I assume) cable so you can synth your own logic onto these otherwise blank FPGAs.</p>
<p>Blank FPGAs means you have a useless board (unless you are an FPGA developer).</p>
<p>And for what it&#8217;s worth, reworking for a PCI-e version is much, much more than just redoing the PCB artwork.</p>
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		<title>By: Grahame</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35453</link>
		<dc:creator>Grahame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 07:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35453</guid>
		<description>Oops ...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My paragraph should have read:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also -- I am not 100% sure that PCI-X cards do work even if you can get them to fit in a PCI slot to start with. Could you please investigate this and advise potential customers on your website - If anything it will help with future purchases if it does conform.&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8230;</p>
<p>My paragraph should have read:</p>
<p>Also &#8212; I am not 100% sure that PCI-X cards do work even if you can get them to fit in a PCI slot to start with. Could you please investigate this and advise potential customers on your website &#8211; If anything it will help with future purchases if it does conform.</p>
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		<title>By: Grahame</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35452</link>
		<dc:creator>Grahame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 07:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35452</guid>
		<description>Firstly, this project is just fantastic. Congratulations to all the developers.  Those that get to use the card will certainly help in pushing the Linux Envelope further commercially.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, having motherboards with PCI-X slots only in our servers does not enable us to test, enjoy and assist you in furthering your great project.  As far as I can tell. The Desktop thats your primary target.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry guys, I know you have spent a lot of your own $$$ or masses of time doing this, but PCI-e is the only way to go for the majority of current and new users in Linux-land.  Apart from the poor local availability of good performing motherboards, PCI-e has overrun PCI-X and as such PCI-X is treated with much suspect emotions.  Most people are aware that PCI-X is not going anywhere fast, and so avoid such devices, preferring PCI-e. Any Linux guru/developer is aware that PCI-e offers much more in bandwidth, scalable performance and software functionality and speed over the static PCI-X interface.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also -- I am not 100% sure that PCI-X cards do work even if you can get them to fit in a PCI-X slot to start with. Could you please investigate this and advise potential customers on your website - If anything it will help with future purchases if it does conform. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Unfortunately my experiences remind me to avoid/forget PCI-X. I have found differences between PCI-X conformance over 2.1, 2.2 h/w standards on some motherboards, so a blanket guarantee of suitability may not be wise.  Anyhow, please check this all out with the h/w guru&#039;s; and let us know the results.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I sincerely hope you can re-spin the artwork and integrate a PCI-e interface chip and release a PCI-e board without too much loss in $$$ and time. Then, I would seriously more than consider purchasing such a great card.&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, this project is just fantastic. Congratulations to all the developers.  Those that get to use the card will certainly help in pushing the Linux Envelope further commercially.</p>
<p>However, having motherboards with PCI-X slots only in our servers does not enable us to test, enjoy and assist you in furthering your great project.  As far as I can tell. The Desktop thats your primary target.</p>
<p>Sorry guys, I know you have spent a lot of your own $$$ or masses of time doing this, but PCI-e is the only way to go for the majority of current and new users in Linux-land.  Apart from the poor local availability of good performing motherboards, PCI-e has overrun PCI-X and as such PCI-X is treated with much suspect emotions.  Most people are aware that PCI-X is not going anywhere fast, and so avoid such devices, preferring PCI-e. Any Linux guru/developer is aware that PCI-e offers much more in bandwidth, scalable performance and software functionality and speed over the static PCI-X interface.</p>
<p>Also &#8212; I am not 100% sure that PCI-X cards do work even if you can get them to fit in a PCI-X slot to start with. Could you please investigate this and advise potential customers on your website &#8211; If anything it will help with future purchases if it does conform. </p>
<p>Unfortunately my experiences remind me to avoid/forget PCI-X. I have found differences between PCI-X conformance over 2.1, 2.2 h/w standards on some motherboards, so a blanket guarantee of suitability may not be wise.  Anyhow, please check this all out with the h/w guru&#8217;s; and let us know the results.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope you can re-spin the artwork and integrate a PCI-e interface chip and release a PCI-e board without too much loss in $$$ and time. Then, I would seriously more than consider purchasing such a great card.</p>
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		<title>By: csirac2</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35451</link>
		<dc:creator>csirac2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 05:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35451</guid>
		<description>Has the logic for the secondary FPGA pretending to be a PCI bridge chip been synthesised so it can do its job?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;d be much more interested if this was the case. Still, don&#039;t have $1500 USD to blow right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has the logic for the secondary FPGA pretending to be a PCI bridge chip been synthesised so it can do its job?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be much more interested if this was the case. Still, don&#8217;t have $1500 USD to blow right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Wotan</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35450</link>
		<dc:creator>Wotan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 02:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35450</guid>
		<description>Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but is the pci-x connector the same as what was used on some DEC Alpha workstation boards? I know those slots are 64-bit, and the form factor looks about the same. And, what are the results if plugged into a standard PCI slot (if possible)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but is the pci-x connector the same as what was used on some DEC Alpha workstation boards? I know those slots are 64-bit, and the form factor looks about the same. And, what are the results if plugged into a standard PCI slot (if possible)?</p>
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		<title>By: N</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35449</link>
		<dc:creator>N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 02:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35449</guid>
		<description>&quot;The OGD1 could also be used with CPU architectures that wouldn&#039;t be unsupported by normal graphics cards.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Double negative FTW!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The OGD1 could also be used with CPU architectures that wouldn&#8217;t be unsupported by normal graphics cards.&#8221;</p>
<p>Double negative FTW!</p>
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		<title>By: chipdude</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35448</link>
		<dc:creator>chipdude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35448</guid>
		<description>In response to tjhooker:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The NRE costs (R+D, masks, etc) for ASIC run to the millions of dollars.  The NRE costs for FPGA is a 5-20 thousand to prototype the board.  The unit costs of ASIC are much cheaper in volume, but for the per unit costs to break even, you need to sell hundreds of thousands of units.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to tjhooker:</p>
<p>The NRE costs (R+D, masks, etc) for ASIC run to the millions of dollars.  The NRE costs for FPGA is a 5-20 thousand to prototype the board.  The unit costs of ASIC are much cheaper in volume, but for the per unit costs to break even, you need to sell hundreds of thousands of units.</p>
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		<title>By: TJHooker</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35447</link>
		<dc:creator>TJHooker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35447</guid>
		<description>Wow what&#039;s with all the IC&#039;s? Can&#039;t you use a few ASIC chips?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You can buy a few GeForce 9 Nvidia cards for what this costs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I remember seeing ISA and PCI card schematics and drivers years back. I think there was PCI circuits posted here too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow what&#8217;s with all the IC&#8217;s? Can&#8217;t you use a few ASIC chips?</p>
<p>You can buy a few GeForce 9 Nvidia cards for what this costs.</p>
<p>I remember seeing ISA and PCI card schematics and drivers years back. I think there was PCI circuits posted here too.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35446</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35446</guid>
		<description>Finally I could buy a GPU for my underused Dual-Xeon Server....(Could being the operative term...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally I could buy a GPU for my underused Dual-Xeon Server&#8230;.(Could being the operative term&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: }{itch</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35445</link>
		<dc:creator>}{itch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 00:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35445</guid>
		<description>@matt - on the website it says that pci-x is backwards compatible with pci, the header on the pci-x card is just longer, so part of the connector is unused if you plug it into a pci slot. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;could be the start of an amazing open computer hardware movement.it&#039;d be fantastic to see an entirely open-source computer one of these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@matt &#8211; on the website it says that pci-x is backwards compatible with pci, the header on the pci-x card is just longer, so part of the connector is unused if you plug it into a pci slot. </p>
<p>could be the start of an amazing open computer hardware movement.it&#8217;d be fantastic to see an entirely open-source computer one of these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35444</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35444</guid>
		<description>It uses a PCI-X connector? Does anyone actually use those? (PCI-X != PCI-express).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It uses a PCI-X connector? Does anyone actually use those? (PCI-X != PCI-express).</p>
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		<title>By: tjhow</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35443</link>
		<dc:creator>tjhow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35443</guid>
		<description>this is a fantastic move for the linux community, i certainly hope it lasts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is a fantastic move for the linux community, i certainly hope it lasts!</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/comment-page-1/#comment-35442</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 22:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/21/open-graphics-card-available-for-preorder/#comment-35442</guid>
		<description>not to detract from their proejct at al, but one side benefit of something like this is it might pressure the suits at ati and nv to open up their designs. That might seem anti-competitive, but if it shifts developers&#039; time away from shrowding products in secrecy it may foster a new type of competitiveness: make the fastest graphics card that is easiest to write drivers for. Very cool stuff, wish I could afford it! &lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not to detract from their proejct at al, but one side benefit of something like this is it might pressure the suits at ati and nv to open up their designs. That might seem anti-competitive, but if it shifts developers&#8217; time away from shrowding products in secrecy it may foster a new type of competitiveness: make the fastest graphics card that is easiest to write drivers for. Very cool stuff, wish I could afford it! </p>
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