Comments on: How-To: Go green with lead free solder http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/ Fresh hacks every day Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:24:31 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: spinner http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-2/#comment-91719 spinner Fri, 04 Sep 2009 10:34:53 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-91719 I'm going to assume that the posters shouting about bloody hippies and nanny states don't have kids?! Lead is a poison, the less of if we have the better for the environment & better for our kids. Use lead free silver solder and you'll be fine. I’m going to assume that the posters shouting about bloody hippies and nanny states don’t have kids?!
Lead is a poison, the less of if we have the better for the environment & better for our kids.
Use lead free silver solder and you’ll be fine.

]]> By: CW http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-2/#comment-91667 CW Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:17:30 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-91667 i would just like to add that despite how right some may be, with all the craze of being eco-friendly the lead will be feared rather than respected, and will sooner than later be squeezed out of U.S. society. No matter how much we would want it, the bureaucracy exists, and is growing exponentially. i would just like to add that despite how right some may be, with all the craze of being eco-friendly the lead will be feared rather than respected, and will sooner than later be squeezed out of U.S. society. No matter how much we would want it, the bureaucracy exists, and is growing exponentially.

]]> By: CW http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-2/#comment-91663 CW Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:57:37 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-91663 i've just finished reading through these comments. I agree with someone who said it earlier: it is nice to hear info from people who actually solder, and not radical environmentalists with a bunch of worthless propaganda! i am very interested in picking up soldering for jewelry, and appreciate all the honesty. i will probably have to try both types of solder, just to see what i'm dealing with on a difficulty level. my pre-concerns about using regular solder are, will anyone trust the product? Also, with regular lead-free solder, is it truly safer, and a more economical choice? Can it be recycled? i’ve just finished reading through these comments. I agree with someone who said it earlier: it is nice to hear info from people who actually solder, and not radical environmentalists with a bunch of worthless propaganda! i am very interested in picking up soldering for jewelry, and appreciate all the honesty.

i will probably have to try both types of solder, just to see what i’m dealing with on a difficulty level. my pre-concerns about using regular solder are, will anyone trust the product? Also, with regular lead-free solder, is it truly safer, and a more economical choice? Can it be recycled?

]]> By: Kevin http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-2/#comment-65562 Kevin Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:55:53 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-65562 tin whiskers are also known as dendrites. In the late 70's we saw this on ceramic IC packages using matte tin plated leadframes. I beleive it requires hi temp and humidity to make this happen. It certainly accelerates it anyway. In mil spec testing, humidity life testing is required and that is where this would show up. Acording to Kester's data sheets, their "275" products appear free from this behaviour. tin whiskers are also known as dendrites.
In the late 70’s we saw this on ceramic IC packages using matte tin plated leadframes. I beleive it requires hi temp and humidity to make this happen. It certainly accelerates it anyway. In mil spec testing, humidity life testing is required and that is where this would show up.
Acording to Kester’s data sheets, their “275″ products appear free from this behaviour.

]]> By: Shannon http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-2/#comment-62648 Shannon Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:17:37 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-62648 I've seen how some "lead-free" solders still contain up to 88% lead. What's up with the advertisement on here for x-rated videos? Lame. I’ve seen how some “lead-free” solders still contain up to 88% lead. What’s up with the advertisement on here for x-rated videos? Lame.

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]]> By: Daniel http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-43967 Daniel Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:42:41 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-43967 Lots of interesting comments- To the post about pendants: The biggest problem with jewelry containing lead is small children getting hold of it. There have been news reports of cheap jewelry from China with lead in solder or casting metals. Kids like to chew on things- I guess they have plenty extra kids in China. Also, do you really want someone handling the pendant, wearing it against their skin, then perhaps eating- unaware of the (perhaps slight) danger? How about epoxies? You need to handle them carefully- gloves and ventilation (you build up sensitivity over time if your skin touches them), but once cured they are supposedly not toxic. I bet you could find the right epoxy and get a nice looking bond that would keep your tape fixed in place- you can build airplane structures with the stuff..... Lots of interesting comments-
To the post about pendants:
The biggest problem with jewelry containing lead is small children getting hold of it. There have been news reports of cheap jewelry from China with lead in solder or casting metals. Kids like to chew on things- I guess they have plenty extra kids in China. Also, do you really want someone handling the pendant, wearing it against their skin, then perhaps eating- unaware of the (perhaps slight) danger?

How about epoxies? You need to handle them carefully- gloves and ventilation (you build up sensitivity over time if your skin touches them), but once cured they are supposedly not toxic.

I bet you could find the right epoxy and get a nice looking bond that would keep your tape fixed in place- you can build airplane structures with the stuff…..

]]> By: Bec http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-43770 Bec Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:45:47 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-43770 Hobbist question here... I am using solder to make pendants. I take two 1.5" pieces of cut glass and sandwitch a photo in between them. I use copper tape to bind the glass and photo together. Then I add to the tape a cream lead free flux. Then I solder this all together with 60/40 rosin core solder. This works really good! So - in comes the "Oh-MA-Gawd is there lead in that pendant!?" question that I'm worried I'll get from people if I decide to sell them. Others who sell this same kind of pendant brag that they use "lead free" solder. I tried lead free and I've practiced and practiced. I researched and I bought hotter irons and still it is ugly and looks like crap! I think the people who claim they use lead free on their pendants are lieing... anyway, sorry to go on here(maybe I have brain damage) :-) What do you think? Will people who buy a pendant with 60/40 solder be harmed? Will I? Hobbist question here…
I am using solder to make pendants.
I take two 1.5″ pieces of cut glass and sandwitch a photo in between them.
I use copper tape to bind the glass and photo together.
Then I add to the tape a cream lead free flux. Then I solder this all together with 60/40 rosin core solder. This works really good!
So – in comes the “Oh-MA-Gawd is there lead in that pendant!?” question that I’m worried I’ll get from people if I decide to sell them. Others who sell this same kind of pendant brag that they use “lead free” solder. I tried lead free and I’ve practiced and practiced. I researched and I bought hotter irons and still it is ugly and looks like crap! I think the people who claim they use lead free on their pendants are lieing… anyway, sorry to go on here(maybe I have brain damage) :-)
What do you think? Will people who buy a pendant with 60/40 solder be harmed? Will I?

]]> By: lukus http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-35541 lukus Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:57:26 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-35541 i'm finding using lead-free difficult - mainly because of my tips, which don't like to be left for any length of time (tinned or untinned). if they are left they brown up... not sure whether this is this because of the flux core in the solder - so far i've only used one brand.<br><br>trying to rework a join has been my biggest problem - no amount of heat will budge some joints... but i've found that a small amount of solder applied to the tip prior to reworking a joint helps _a lot_ (and stops me from burning a hole in the board).<br><br>i've ordered some lead-free tip cleaner, and i'm hoping that helps with my tip performance.<br><br>re: the move to rohs i understand people being annoyed; but this is the way the world is moving, and my feeling is we need to move with it.<br><br>it's a new material - and new techniques and methods need to be established... i reckon we should work towards finding those techniques rather than just shouting the usual 'nanny-state' b*****t.<br><br>i'm in the uk and a year and a half ago it seemed unbelievable that smoking would be banned in pubs and clubs - now it's hard to believe it was ever allowed. my point being, established attitudes can change in a short amount of time. i’m finding using lead-free difficult – mainly because of my tips, which don’t like to be left for any length of time (tinned or untinned). if they are left they brown up… not sure whether this is this because of the flux core in the solder – so far i’ve only used one brand.

trying to rework a join has been my biggest problem – no amount of heat will budge some joints… but i’ve found that a small amount of solder applied to the tip prior to reworking a joint helps _a lot_ (and stops me from burning a hole in the board).

i’ve ordered some lead-free tip cleaner, and i’m hoping that helps with my tip performance.

re: the move to rohs i understand people being annoyed; but this is the way the world is moving, and my feeling is we need to move with it.

it’s a new material – and new techniques and methods need to be established… i reckon we should work towards finding those techniques rather than just shouting the usual ‘nanny-state’ b*****t.

i’m in the uk and a year and a half ago it seemed unbelievable that smoking would be banned in pubs and clubs – now it’s hard to believe it was ever allowed. my point being, established attitudes can change in a short amount of time.

]]> By: Chris Wilson http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-35540 Chris Wilson Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:32:24 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-35540 Not sure why exactly but the title of this page: <a href="http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1901-semiconductor.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1901-semiconductor.html</a> refers to lead-sulfide as...<br>1901 - Semiconductor Rectifiers Patented as “Cat's Whisker” Detectors.<br><br>I wonder if the original reference here was "Cat's Whiskers" now known today more specifically as "Tin Whiskers"?<br><br>The reference to WHISKERS - LEAD SULFIDE - ELECTRONICS etc. draws me to the conclusive opinion. Not sure why exactly but the title of this page: http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1901-semiconductor.html refers to lead-sulfide as…
1901 – Semiconductor Rectifiers Patented as “Cat’s Whisker” Detectors.

I wonder if the original reference here was “Cat’s Whiskers” now known today more specifically as “Tin Whiskers”?

The reference to WHISKERS – LEAD SULFIDE – ELECTRONICS etc. draws me to the conclusive opinion.

]]> By: Marc http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-35539 Marc Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:58:05 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-35539 Wow - a lot of misinformation in the comments here. Perhaps many of those commenting are suffering from reduced IQs?<br><br>First - Lead is a neurotoxin which the human body mistakes for calcium, it literally binds to bone and and slowly enters the bloodstream over time. Unless you've been exposed to a high dose, it's unlikely you'd even know you're being poisoned.<br><br>Second - There are millions of products on the market today with lead-free solder. Sony TVs, the PS3, Apple iPods, iPhone, computers, Dell servers, electronic musical keyboards, toasters, refrigerators, you name it. They've been out there for years - with no significant issues. Billions of dollars worth of consumer electronics. The XBox 360 failures are attributable to heating issues - not tin-whiskers.<br><br>Please learn the facts before commenting.<br><br> Wow – a lot of misinformation in the comments here. Perhaps many of those commenting are suffering from reduced IQs?

First – Lead is a neurotoxin which the human body mistakes for calcium, it literally binds to bone and and slowly enters the bloodstream over time. Unless you’ve been exposed to a high dose, it’s unlikely you’d even know you’re being poisoned.

Second – There are millions of products on the market today with lead-free solder. Sony TVs, the PS3, Apple iPods, iPhone, computers, Dell servers, electronic musical keyboards, toasters, refrigerators, you name it. They’ve been out there for years – with no significant issues. Billions of dollars worth of consumer electronics. The XBox 360 failures are attributable to heating issues – not tin-whiskers.

Please learn the facts before commenting.

]]> By: Chris Wilson http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-35538 Chris Wilson Mon, 26 May 2008 23:35:10 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-35538 "it has nothing to do with conductivity" ?<br><br>If just soldering pipes then I would agree. It has more to do with "reliability" of soldered critical components and it's effectiveness at carrying current with minimal resistance.<br><br>Seriously, tin whiskers are a huge problem and using silver as a substitute for lead has its own issues. <br><br>The whisker problem was identified back in the 1940's <br>The solution? Mix lead into the solder to prevent whiskers. Currently no other practical solution is known other than to ignore the European legal mandate and revert back?<br><a href="http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Technology/Pix/pictures/2008/04/02/TinWhiskers460x276.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Technology/Pix/pictures/2008/04/02/TinWhiskers460x276.jpg</a><br><br>From my own understanding;<br>Whiskers tips are atom-sharp - they will pierce through any coating, given time.<br><br>Ideally we need to find a modern lead-free process solution.<br> “it has nothing to do with conductivity” ?

If just soldering pipes then I would agree. It has more to do with “reliability” of soldered critical components and it’s effectiveness at carrying current with minimal resistance.

Seriously, tin whiskers are a huge problem and using silver as a substitute for lead has its own issues.

The whisker problem was identified back in the 1940’s
The solution? Mix lead into the solder to prevent whiskers. Currently no other practical solution is known other than to ignore the European legal mandate and revert back?
http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Technology/Pix/pictures/2008/04/02/TinWhiskers460×276.jpg

From my own understanding;
Whiskers tips are atom-sharp – they will pierce through any coating, given time.

Ideally we need to find a modern lead-free process solution.

]]> By: Ed Burden http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-35537 Ed Burden Mon, 26 May 2008 23:17:54 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-35537 I work as a solderer for a contract electronics manufacturer. We are now doing about a third of our work with lead-free solder. None of the solderers like it. It's high melting point makes it harder to get a good joint. It begins to harden as you pull your iron away resulting in "icicles", dull-looking solder, etc.<br>The flux used in it STINKS! The smell is enough to have made veteran solderers sick. I would say that the flux is probably worse for you than the old leaded solder. I work as a solderer for a contract electronics manufacturer. We are now doing about a third of our work with lead-free solder. None of the solderers like it. It’s high melting point makes it harder to get a good joint. It begins to harden as you pull your iron away resulting in “icicles”, dull-looking solder, etc.
The flux used in it STINKS! The smell is enough to have made veteran solderers sick. I would say that the flux is probably worse for you than the old leaded solder.

]]> By: daqq http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-35536 daqq Mon, 26 May 2008 18:44:16 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-35536 Too bad I had to read this. Thank you, author, f*uck you, pointy haired byrocrats making up stupid laws and regulations. <br><br>If I promise not to eat my PCBs, can I continue using lead solder? Too bad I had to read this. Thank you, author, f*uck you, pointy haired byrocrats making up stupid laws and regulations.

If I promise not to eat my PCBs, can I continue using lead solder?

]]> By: Viadd http://hackaday.com/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/comment-page-1/#comment-35535 Viadd Mon, 26 May 2008 18:29:46 +0000 http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/05/22/how-to-go-green-with-lead-free-solder/#comment-35535 #19 You should also consider that almost all iron is the end product of a complex radioactive decay. (Primarily Ni->Co->Fe of the appropriate isotopes)<br><br>There is a lot of work being done on the radioactivity of 54Fe which is 5.8% isotopic abundance. The latest measurements say that its half-life is >1e22 years, which means that we'll never be rid of it. Something to think about when your doctor treats you for anemia: just tell him 'No way are you putting those radiation by-products into me.'<br><br><br> #19 You should also consider that almost all iron is the end product of a complex radioactive decay. (Primarily Ni->Co->Fe of the appropriate isotopes)

There is a lot of work being done on the radioactivity of 54Fe which is 5.8% isotopic abundance. The latest measurements say that its half-life is >1e22 years, which means that we’ll never be rid of it. Something to think about when your doctor treats you for anemia: just tell him ‘No way are you putting those radiation by-products into me.’

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