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	<title>Comments on: Progressive MyRate hackable?</title>
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	<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/</link>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-72839</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 22:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-72839</guid>
		<description>I just got my device replaced because the first one stop working.

The new one is wireless version which use cell phone network to send the data back.

As you may know, every time you communicate with a cell tower, it can locate you with in ... I don&#039;t know, maybe a mile? Same feature on some cellphones with google map.

I really worried how they going to use these information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just got my device replaced because the first one stop working.</p>
<p>The new one is wireless version which use cell phone network to send the data back.</p>
<p>As you may know, every time you communicate with a cell tower, it can locate you with in &#8230; I don&#8217;t know, maybe a mile? Same feature on some cellphones with google map.</p>
<p>I really worried how they going to use these information.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-65823</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-65823</guid>
		<description>I just got a 10.3% discount - that&#039;s $27 per month - $162 per 6 mo term - or $324 per year. 

And that is with more &quot;sudden starts and stops&quot; than the average MyRate user. If I drove like my mother, I could save over $600 per year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just got a 10.3% discount &#8211; that&#8217;s $27 per month &#8211; $162 per 6 mo term &#8211; or $324 per year. </p>
<p>And that is with more &#8220;sudden starts and stops&#8221; than the average MyRate user. If I drove like my mother, I could save over $600 per year.</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-55422</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-55422</guid>
		<description>just wanted to throw this into this dead post for shits and giggles. uploaded my girfriend&#039;s data just now and got a 10.71% discount. worth it to me since we&#039;re both good drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just wanted to throw this into this dead post for shits and giggles. uploaded my girfriend&#8217;s data just now and got a 10.71% discount. worth it to me since we&#8217;re both good drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Bump The dead</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38011</link>
		<dc:creator>Bump The dead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38011</guid>
		<description>To put it simple your cars computer spits out a good deal of information. but some things people mentioned aren&#039;t sent&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;ECU doesn&#039;t know its vin, doesn&#039;t know the time of day, and it in most cases has no idea if you are putting your foot on the brake (possible in automatics).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The information the insurance company will be after will most likely be the rappid acceleration and miles driven, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;both can easily be falsified. USB readers for OBDII are roughly 20 dollars on ebay, a small board can also be created to forward false codes and information into the progressive chip&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;if you have a carputer installed in your vehicle you can set the cap for RPM and MPH, this can easily fool the insurance company to think you&#039;ve driven less and been more calm in your driving patterns. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The hacking, unless the OBDII and Carputer are already installed would cost far more than you would save insurance wise to validate the reason&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;just my 2 cents</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To put it simple your cars computer spits out a good deal of information. but some things people mentioned aren&#8217;t sent</p>
<p>ECU doesn&#8217;t know its vin, doesn&#8217;t know the time of day, and it in most cases has no idea if you are putting your foot on the brake (possible in automatics).</p>
<p>The information the insurance company will be after will most likely be the rappid acceleration and miles driven, </p>
<p>both can easily be falsified. USB readers for OBDII are roughly 20 dollars on ebay, a small board can also be created to forward false codes and information into the progressive chip</p>
<p>if you have a carputer installed in your vehicle you can set the cap for RPM and MPH, this can easily fool the insurance company to think you&#8217;ve driven less and been more calm in your driving patterns. </p>
<p>The hacking, unless the OBDII and Carputer are already installed would cost far more than you would save insurance wise to validate the reason</p>
<p>just my 2 cents</p>
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		<title>By: zumazen</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38010</link>
		<dc:creator>zumazen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38010</guid>
		<description>Just got mine in the mail. My wife saw that we could get a 5% discount. She clicked &quot;sure&quot;. So now I&#039;m wondering what I should do. I could install it and repost in 6 months. My rate is $363 for my 2004 Expedition. I&#039;ll keep you up to date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just got mine in the mail. My wife saw that we could get a 5% discount. She clicked &#8220;sure&#8221;. So now I&#8217;m wondering what I should do. I could install it and repost in 6 months. My rate is $363 for my 2004 Expedition. I&#8217;ll keep you up to date.</p>
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		<title>By: charles</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38009</link>
		<dc:creator>charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38009</guid>
		<description>who makes this new MyRate device for progressive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>who makes this new MyRate device for progressive?</p>
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		<title>By: E.J. Publius</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38008</link>
		<dc:creator>E.J. Publius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38008</guid>
		<description>Mojo: That kind of stuff is why you should only drive classic cars w/o odb-ii ports (and w/ big engines :D)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mojo: That kind of stuff is why you should only drive classic cars w/o odb-ii ports (and w/ big engines :D)</p>
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		<title>By: Patchouli</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38007</link>
		<dc:creator>Patchouli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38007</guid>
		<description>Someone could just get the specs on the ODBII data format and make an emulator based on an AT-Mega or similar uC that runs when the car is on and have it input false data into the device.&lt;br&gt;Give the thing the blue bill it&#039;ll never know the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone could just get the specs on the ODBII data format and make an emulator based on an AT-Mega or similar uC that runs when the car is on and have it input false data into the device.<br />Give the thing the blue bill it&#8217;ll never know the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38006</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38006</guid>
		<description>James - the slippery slope here requires that these devices really start to catch on to the point that an insurance provider can require them.  Once a vast majority of policyholders have them, it&#039;s not that big of a step to require the rest to get a device or receive a huge rate hike.  Now, rather than getting a device to get lower rates, users will get one to avoid higher rates.  After all, if you don&#039;t want a device, you must have something to hide, and thus are a bigger risk.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As long as all the big players in the insurance business follow suit (why wouldn&#039;t they, it helps their bottom line?), then drivers are pretty much required to have one to be insured.  Then, there&#039;s not much to stop the insurance companies from extending the functionality of the monitoring devices.  GPS would be added under the guise of further monitoring driving habits, perhaps to see if a driver frequents dangerous roads or intersections.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Once the insurance companies have this big brother view of drivers, it&#039;s only a small step to guess that the government will want a piece of the data mining action.  One only has to look at the pressures government puts on the telecom industry for wiretapping rights to see where this could lead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James &#8211; the slippery slope here requires that these devices really start to catch on to the point that an insurance provider can require them.  Once a vast majority of policyholders have them, it&#8217;s not that big of a step to require the rest to get a device or receive a huge rate hike.  Now, rather than getting a device to get lower rates, users will get one to avoid higher rates.  After all, if you don&#8217;t want a device, you must have something to hide, and thus are a bigger risk.</p>
<p>As long as all the big players in the insurance business follow suit (why wouldn&#8217;t they, it helps their bottom line?), then drivers are pretty much required to have one to be insured.  Then, there&#8217;s not much to stop the insurance companies from extending the functionality of the monitoring devices.  GPS would be added under the guise of further monitoring driving habits, perhaps to see if a driver frequents dangerous roads or intersections.</p>
<p>Once the insurance companies have this big brother view of drivers, it&#8217;s only a small step to guess that the government will want a piece of the data mining action.  One only has to look at the pressures government puts on the telecom industry for wiretapping rights to see where this could lead.</p>
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		<title>By: RWL</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38005</link>
		<dc:creator>RWL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38005</guid>
		<description>the one I have (from progressive, a couple of years old now) has a simple USB connector to upload the data.  The log only contains driving distance, speed, and date/time.  It DOES NOT record location information.  And, of course, it only records when it&#039;s actually plugged into the odb-ii port in the car.  (Mine is not wireless, but then again, it&#039;s not the latest version, either.)&lt;br&gt;The device has pins for more than the data they&#039;re collecting (such as, CPU status, exhaust system, trans, etc.), but only a couple of them are connected internally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the one I have (from progressive, a couple of years old now) has a simple USB connector to upload the data.  The log only contains driving distance, speed, and date/time.  It DOES NOT record location information.  And, of course, it only records when it&#8217;s actually plugged into the odb-ii port in the car.  (Mine is not wireless, but then again, it&#8217;s not the latest version, either.)<br />The device has pins for more than the data they&#8217;re collecting (such as, CPU status, exhaust system, trans, etc.), but only a couple of them are connected internally.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulJ</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38004</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38004</guid>
		<description>Cars with computers in them, ha! What kind of crazy future are these guys living in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cars with computers in them, ha! What kind of crazy future are these guys living in?</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38003</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38003</guid>
		<description>Mojo, that&#039;s a pretty iffy slippery slope you&#039;re talking about.  How do you make the leap from [optional, asynchronous, tracking &quot;How far you drive&quot;, &quot;When you drive&quot;, &quot;How aggressively you drive&quot; (as above] to [mandatory, GPS-based location aware, real-time]?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mojo, that&#8217;s a pretty iffy slippery slope you&#8217;re talking about.  How do you make the leap from [optional, asynchronous, tracking "How far you drive", "When you drive", "How aggressively you drive" (as above] to [mandatory, GPS-based location aware, real-time]?</p>
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		<title>By: Mojo</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38002</link>
		<dc:creator>Mojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38002</guid>
		<description>Sounds to me like a gimmick to push an underlying agenda.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Get everyone to install these to the point that they are so common, no one can or will be insured without one. Then slowly phase in gps based units and eventually they have big brother of the car world. No more privacy when you drive, no more avoiding tickets since they upload your data straight to a police mainframe if you ever speed and the ticket will be posted (heck why not just E-mail it lol) automaticaly.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Accidents are instantly asses to see which driver ran the light, was speeding, was driving dangerously etc etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Heck the list is endless, most of it can be used for good (help raise the premium of dangerous drivers, while lowering those of safer drivers etc), but majority of it will just be invasion of privacy (why do they need to know you parked outside a whore house/drug dealers premesis etc?).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TBH I would be very weary of using one of these things for the above reasons, afterall whats $100 more for piece of mind comapared with $100 saving on your cover in return for paranoia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds to me like a gimmick to push an underlying agenda.</p>
<p>Get everyone to install these to the point that they are so common, no one can or will be insured without one. Then slowly phase in gps based units and eventually they have big brother of the car world. No more privacy when you drive, no more avoiding tickets since they upload your data straight to a police mainframe if you ever speed and the ticket will be posted (heck why not just E-mail it lol) automaticaly.</p>
<p>Accidents are instantly asses to see which driver ran the light, was speeding, was driving dangerously etc etc.</p>
<p>Heck the list is endless, most of it can be used for good (help raise the premium of dangerous drivers, while lowering those of safer drivers etc), but majority of it will just be invasion of privacy (why do they need to know you parked outside a whore house/drug dealers premesis etc?).</p>
<p>TBH I would be very weary of using one of these things for the above reasons, afterall whats $100 more for piece of mind comapared with $100 saving on your cover in return for paranoia?</p>
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		<title>By: alex mccown</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38001</link>
		<dc:creator>alex mccown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38001</guid>
		<description>im sure if i sit around with a scope and a logic-an i can make my own avr one fairly cheep but i dont got the time or da laptop :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>im sure if i sit around with a scope and a logic-an i can make my own avr one fairly cheep but i dont got the time or da laptop :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Rouss</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/comment-page-1/#comment-38000</link>
		<dc:creator>Rouss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/06/28/progressive-myrate-hackable/#comment-38000</guid>
		<description>Though they are pricey, there are emulators that mimic the information the ECU sends out. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.obd2cables.com/products/index.php?cPath=31_33&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.obd2cables.com/products/index.php?cPath=31_33&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;It would not be hard to build one yourself depending on the protocol. For example, before the 2008 models, Ford used power width modulation to communicate through the OBD-ii connector. different manufactures use different protocols.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though they are pricey, there are emulators that mimic the information the ECU sends out. <a href="http://www.obd2cables.com/products/index.php?cPath=31_33" rel="nofollow">http://www.obd2cables.com/products/index.php?cPath=31_33</a><br />It would not be hard to build one yourself depending on the protocol. For example, before the 2008 models, Ford used power width modulation to communicate through the OBD-ii connector. different manufactures use different protocols.</p>
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