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	<title>Comments on: Defcon 16: Pacemaker-B-Gone</title>
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		<title>By: Nolan Ferree</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-135965</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nolan Ferree]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 01:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-135965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very well said. I bookmarked your site for future visits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said. I bookmarked your site for future visits.</p>
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		<title>By: IIZZKK</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-53801</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IIZZKK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-53801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a pacer, and i am VERY GLAD that these intelligent people are thinking a step ahead in order to save lives by thinking as the &quot;bad guy&quot; and then solving the problem to stop &quot;him&quot;.
Wheather or not this is actual, it is still very commending and thought-stimulating for those who in the future would devise medical equipment, in order to stop any would-be devious attacks on a patient&#039;s life.
Thank you !]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a pacer, and i am VERY GLAD that these intelligent people are thinking a step ahead in order to save lives by thinking as the &#8220;bad guy&#8221; and then solving the problem to stop &#8220;him&#8221;.<br />
Wheather or not this is actual, it is still very commending and thought-stimulating for those who in the future would devise medical equipment, in order to stop any would-be devious attacks on a patient&#8217;s life.<br />
Thank you !</p>
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		<title>By: Lank</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-50215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-50215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thing is, anyone with a giant magnet could disrupt ANY pacemaker, defibrillator. 

However, these things are easily programmed via a special magnet, and a computer. 

This is typically proprietary technology, and hospitals employ contractors FROM the pacemaker companies to run the equipment with a cardiologist who&#039;s an expert with electrical therapies of the heart. 

I dunno what sort of thing hackers can do remotely. I mean, you do checkups by phone, and if a hacker knew you were on the phone doing a checkup, they could MAYBE affect your pacemaker. But PERFECT TIMING is of the essence, and this is FAR from a mass-pacemaker disruption.

If you take a giant magnet that is going to read and write to the pacemaker of many people, it&#039;s going to disrupt them all in the first place.

There&#039;s not much to fear, this is good progress, though, and I don&#039;t think pacemakers are going to be the target of any sick fucks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, anyone with a giant magnet could disrupt ANY pacemaker, defibrillator. </p>
<p>However, these things are easily programmed via a special magnet, and a computer. </p>
<p>This is typically proprietary technology, and hospitals employ contractors FROM the pacemaker companies to run the equipment with a cardiologist who&#8217;s an expert with electrical therapies of the heart. </p>
<p>I dunno what sort of thing hackers can do remotely. I mean, you do checkups by phone, and if a hacker knew you were on the phone doing a checkup, they could MAYBE affect your pacemaker. But PERFECT TIMING is of the essence, and this is FAR from a mass-pacemaker disruption.</p>
<p>If you take a giant magnet that is going to read and write to the pacemaker of many people, it&#8217;s going to disrupt them all in the first place.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s not much to fear, this is good progress, though, and I don&#8217;t think pacemakers are going to be the target of any sick fucks.</p>
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		<title>By: bhelx</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bhelx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@jhaluska,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;   You make very good points. You are right in saying that this hack is not immediately dangerous or anything to be worried about. I couldn&#039;t see someone really getting away with this on a high profile person in it&#039;s current state. But I think the story and the hack in general is more of a proof-of-concept to get people thinking about relying on electronic devices for their health. Who knows what kind of advancements in the medical technology may yield. It may soon be common to have multiple devices in your body monitoring your health and all of them with similar wireless access. It is then that these things should really be taken into consideration but we should at least begin to think about it now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;@richard,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;   Some government web crawler just put you on a terrorist watch list. You should spell it chaynee from now on. &lt;br&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jhaluska,</p>
<p>   You make very good points. You are right in saying that this hack is not immediately dangerous or anything to be worried about. I couldn&#8217;t see someone really getting away with this on a high profile person in it&#8217;s current state. But I think the story and the hack in general is more of a proof-of-concept to get people thinking about relying on electronic devices for their health. Who knows what kind of advancements in the medical technology may yield. It may soon be common to have multiple devices in your body monitoring your health and all of them with similar wireless access. It is then that these things should really be taken into consideration but we should at least begin to think about it now.</p>
<p>@richard,</p>
<p>   Some government web crawler just put you on a terrorist watch list. You should spell it chaynee from now on. </p>
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		<title>By: rujoesmith</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rujoesmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[this is just plain sick! why would you even think of even trying something like this!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is just plain sick! why would you even think of even trying something like this!</p>
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		<title>By: Wolf</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wolf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@jhaluska&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;you may be right about the range limitation, but I&#039;d be surprised if it wasn&#039;t possible to build a very powerful focused transmitter that could open the distance to say 25 yards (remember those shopping cart wheel locker hacks a while back). It wouldn&#039;t even have to be tiny, anything that could fit within one of those modern suitcases would probably be small enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jhaluska</p>
<p>you may be right about the range limitation, but I&#8217;d be surprised if it wasn&#8217;t possible to build a very powerful focused transmitter that could open the distance to say 25 yards (remember those shopping cart wheel locker hacks a while back). It wouldn&#8217;t even have to be tiny, anything that could fit within one of those modern suitcases would probably be small enough.</p>
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		<title>By: jhaluska</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jhaluska]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 18:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was a software engineer for two different implantable devices.  Yes, like anything else they are hackable.  The older models (and newer ones) are very unlikely to have encryption or a ton of security, mainly because that adds complication and requires additional power.  These devices are made to be as simple as possible because they have to be reliable and extremely small, on top of that they have to run on a battery for YEARS.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes, it is security through obscurity but obscurity doesn&#039;t cost power, take additional space or add complexity.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But the main reason you shouldn&#039;t be concerned about it, to communicate with the device, or to activate the wireless, you typically have to be within a few inches of the device.  The wireless communications are very power hungry so typically they are only turned on by circuits that are passively powered or via magnets.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So yes, if some strange guy is holding a weird device over your chest maybe you have something to be concerned about.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Overall this story is mainly FUD.  Modern pacemakers are extremely well engineered and the amount of testing that goes into them is impressive.  It is one of the industries where a minor bug could easily turn into multimillion dollar lawsuits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a software engineer for two different implantable devices.  Yes, like anything else they are hackable.  The older models (and newer ones) are very unlikely to have encryption or a ton of security, mainly because that adds complication and requires additional power.  These devices are made to be as simple as possible because they have to be reliable and extremely small, on top of that they have to run on a battery for YEARS.</p>
<p>Yes, it is security through obscurity but obscurity doesn&#8217;t cost power, take additional space or add complexity.</p>
<p>But the main reason you shouldn&#8217;t be concerned about it, to communicate with the device, or to activate the wireless, you typically have to be within a few inches of the device.  The wireless communications are very power hungry so typically they are only turned on by circuits that are passively powered or via magnets.</p>
<p>So yes, if some strange guy is holding a weird device over your chest maybe you have something to be concerned about.</p>
<p>Overall this story is mainly FUD.  Modern pacemakers are extremely well engineered and the amount of testing that goes into them is impressive.  It is one of the industries where a minor bug could easily turn into multimillion dollar lawsuits.</p>
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		<title>By: 36chambers</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[36chambers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@motorider - please at least read before you make a ignorant post such as that. This is great informative news, exactly along the lines of security faults in Epassports and FastTrack passes. Security is the issue. Exposing flaws generates fixes. Have you ever heard of a bump key? Well thanks to efforts like this, a BUMP KEY is now considered a burglary tool (at least in California).  Great Job Hackaday!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@motorider &#8211; please at least read before you make a ignorant post such as that. This is great informative news, exactly along the lines of security faults in Epassports and FastTrack passes. Security is the issue. Exposing flaws generates fixes. Have you ever heard of a bump key? Well thanks to efforts like this, a BUMP KEY is now considered a burglary tool (at least in California).  Great Job Hackaday!</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[someone should take out Cheney with this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someone should take out Cheney with this.</p>
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		<title>By: M4CGYV3R</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M4CGYV3R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ #3/4 - You are the reason that they put an injunction on the MIT guys for publishing MTBA weaknesses. Do you think that freedom of speech ends when it&#039;s inconvenient for someone else? Maybe you should be a Bush administration advisor. I&#039;m sure you can equivocate for ages on how the first amendment only applies to your approved ideals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ #3/4 &#8211; You are the reason that they put an injunction on the MIT guys for publishing MTBA weaknesses. Do you think that freedom of speech ends when it&#8217;s inconvenient for someone else? Maybe you should be a Bush administration advisor. I&#8217;m sure you can equivocate for ages on how the first amendment only applies to your approved ideals.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40354</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess most people don&#039;t realize that a lot of security hacking is done not to benefit the hacker directly, but to further the common good. Not all hackers are black hats. Plus you make a good bit of money selling this to companies if they don&#039;t want to have a chance at getting sued later on in the line when a malicious hacker figures out how to broadcast the kill signal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess most people don&#8217;t realize that a lot of security hacking is done not to benefit the hacker directly, but to further the common good. Not all hackers are black hats. Plus you make a good bit of money selling this to companies if they don&#8217;t want to have a chance at getting sued later on in the line when a malicious hacker figures out how to broadcast the kill signal.</p>
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		<title>By: johnny</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You don&#039;t need anything high tech to mess with pacemakers.  At my Grandmother&#039;s church they got a new keyboard and somebody said it was bothering their pacemaker.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also it amazes me how many people on here are supporting security through obscurity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t need anything high tech to mess with pacemakers.  At my Grandmother&#8217;s church they got a new keyboard and somebody said it was bothering their pacemaker.  </p>
<p>Also it amazes me how many people on here are supporting security through obscurity.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Capella</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marty Capella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a list of politicians and celebrities with pacemakers:&lt;br&gt;Dick Cheney, Former Indonesian President Suharto, former Senator Bob Dole, Sir Elton John, Senator George Voinovich, Italian President Ciampi, Les Paul, Silvio Berlusconi, to name but a few.  Back in March, Australia radio reported that US researchers had hacked pacemakers. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2190073.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2190073.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a list of politicians and celebrities with pacemakers:<br />Dick Cheney, Former Indonesian President Suharto, former Senator Bob Dole, Sir Elton John, Senator George Voinovich, Italian President Ciampi, Les Paul, Silvio Berlusconi, to name but a few.  Back in March, Australia radio reported that US researchers had hacked pacemakers. <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2190073.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2190073.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: harvie</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[harvie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh. I did&#039;t known that hacking is about killing people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh. I did&#8217;t known that hacking is about killing people.</p>
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		<title>By: bhelx</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-40350</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bhelx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.iheartcashews.com:8181/2008/08/09/defcon-16-pacemaker-b-gone/#comment-40350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@MotoRider420, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;   These researchers could have probably sold this information to some black ops group or used it in a harmful way themselves. Now if someone actually uses this attack, God forbid the medical companies don&#039;t make the changes to protect against it, we will have a much greater chance of identifying it as a homicide and not just another heart attack or failed ICD. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, you shouldn&#039;t smoke marijuana and ride motorcycles.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MotoRider420, </p>
<p>   These researchers could have probably sold this information to some black ops group or used it in a harmful way themselves. Now if someone actually uses this attack, God forbid the medical companies don&#8217;t make the changes to protect against it, we will have a much greater chance of identifying it as a homicide and not just another heart attack or failed ICD. </p>
<p>Also, you shouldn&#8217;t smoke marijuana and ride motorcycles.</p>
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