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	<title>Comments on: Solar charging your DS</title>
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	<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/</link>
	<description>Fresh hacks every day</description>
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		<title>By: MCHolden</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-314093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MCHolden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-314093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Guys I just want to throw my experience into the ring regarding the issue of a charging circuit, and just where it is in the system.  I have a DS that works fine but will not charge the battery.  I have to charge it in another DS when it dies.  I opened the faulty DS up last night to see if there was a bad solder joint or other obvious damage.  If you look at the mobo where the charging port is, you can see the positive lead of the charging port connects to the F1 (or was it F2? it&#039;s not in front of me now) fuse which in turn connects to an array of resistors, transistors, and diodes, before making it&#039;s way to the positive terminal of the battery compartment.  I can only presume this is a charging circuit.  So when you plug in your charger, you are not just wiring your 5.3VDC directly to your battery.  I agree with the comments above that it probably won&#039;t cause an EXPLOSION at 80ma, but it seems Nintendo has put a charging/protective circuit in there for a reason.  I didn&#039;t read the instructable to see where the hacker connected the output voltage of the solar panels.  If he connected them directly to the motherboard on the line side of the charging circuit, he should have no troubles.  If he wired them directly to the battery terminals then I would say he will slowly but surely overcharge the battery, shortening its useful life.  Either way, great hack sir!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys I just want to throw my experience into the ring regarding the issue of a charging circuit, and just where it is in the system.  I have a DS that works fine but will not charge the battery.  I have to charge it in another DS when it dies.  I opened the faulty DS up last night to see if there was a bad solder joint or other obvious damage.  If you look at the mobo where the charging port is, you can see the positive lead of the charging port connects to the F1 (or was it F2? it&#8217;s not in front of me now) fuse which in turn connects to an array of resistors, transistors, and diodes, before making it&#8217;s way to the positive terminal of the battery compartment.  I can only presume this is a charging circuit.  So when you plug in your charger, you are not just wiring your 5.3VDC directly to your battery.  I agree with the comments above that it probably won&#8217;t cause an EXPLOSION at 80ma, but it seems Nintendo has put a charging/protective circuit in there for a reason.  I didn&#8217;t read the instructable to see where the hacker connected the output voltage of the solar panels.  If he connected them directly to the motherboard on the line side of the charging circuit, he should have no troubles.  If he wired them directly to the battery terminals then I would say he will slowly but surely overcharge the battery, shortening its useful life.  Either way, great hack sir!</p>
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		<title>By: AeroMaster</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-82129</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AeroMaster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 04:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-82129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well I did not think it was possible but the Lithiom Ion Battery isn&#039;t damaged? Also is this safe for an average person to do!? I mean one wrong wire that isn&#039;t connected properly and 1 of 2 things will happen. 130 dollars down the drain (BRICKED DS!!!) or BOOM it shorts out. So my advice even if you have insturctions on how to do it but you don&#039;t know much about these things and how they work. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS OR THERE MAYBE UNDESIREABLE RESULTS!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I did not think it was possible but the Lithiom Ion Battery isn&#8217;t damaged? Also is this safe for an average person to do!? I mean one wrong wire that isn&#8217;t connected properly and 1 of 2 things will happen. 130 dollars down the drain (BRICKED DS!!!) or BOOM it shorts out. So my advice even if you have insturctions on how to do it but you don&#8217;t know much about these things and how they work. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS OR THERE MAYBE UNDESIREABLE RESULTS!!!</p>
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		<title>By: mscir</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-63421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mscir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-63421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Jude (hmmm, seems like I&#039;ve heard that before somewhere) funny comment. Yes I love solar powered anything, I&#039;d put solar panels on a hat and run current across my scalp if I thought it would make me smarter! But anyway please let us know how your project goes. It would be good if we could hear some specifics, like a)what % of the charging of your battery was from solar, and how long the battery lasted (vs how long they typically last), and last but not least, if it &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;exploded&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; (heh, just joking). Post a pic of your project if you want, I&#039;d like to see it. 

Best Wishes,
Mike]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jude (hmmm, seems like I&#8217;ve heard that before somewhere) funny comment. Yes I love solar powered anything, I&#8217;d put solar panels on a hat and run current across my scalp if I thought it would make me smarter! But anyway please let us know how your project goes. It would be good if we could hear some specifics, like a)what % of the charging of your battery was from solar, and how long the battery lasted (vs how long they typically last), and last but not least, if it <i><b>exploded</b></i> (heh, just joking). Post a pic of your project if you want, I&#8217;d like to see it. </p>
<p>Best Wishes,<br />
Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Jude</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-63381</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-63381</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NOOOO!!!! I&#039;ve been working on this! Ive got it all done, just waiting on the solar panels! but nice to see that someone else was thinking it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NOOOO!!!! I&#8217;ve been working on this! Ive got it all done, just waiting on the solar panels! but nice to see that someone else was thinking it.</p>
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		<title>By: mscir</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-63126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mscir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-63126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sounds like it&#039;s time for ... &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;an experiment... &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;! The same model battery wired with the same solar cells under a spotlight in an attempt to overcharge it would be interesting. A log of the voltage and temperature of the battery vs. time would be even better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like it&#8217;s time for &#8230; <b><i>an experiment&#8230; </i></b>! The same model battery wired with the same solar cells under a spotlight in an attempt to overcharge it would be interesting. A log of the voltage and temperature of the battery vs. time would be even better.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-63075</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-63075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now it&#039;s a Nintendo DS Light!  :3

But really, I think there&#039;s a greater threat of thermal damage from leaving it in the sun than from overcharging li-ion batteries with 80 ma.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now it&#8217;s a Nintendo DS Light!  :3</p>
<p>But really, I think there&#8217;s a greater threat of thermal damage from leaving it in the sun than from overcharging li-ion batteries with 80 ma.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis II</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Louis II]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Potential panels for EEE PC 10&quot; solar cells:
http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Panels/1-to-50-Watt-Solar-Panels/Kyocera-12W-12V-Mini-Solar-Panel/p718/

The only real drawback is fairly obvious:
Extremely low current (amps) will result in very long times to charge.

Still, if you mounted 2 of these on an EEE PC and wired them in parallel, you could get an effective juice of 12v at around 0.2 Amps... not too snappy for a couple modules, but if the 3 amp output of the DC adapter means anything, that would give an amp hour every 10 hours (less from losses) of direct sunlight.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s worth it, really, but it would only cost about $80 to find out, potentially.

Personally I would look for better modules before settling on those ones.  I also might consider a fold-out design of home-made modules (from broken ones, of course) to provide more power than needed, using some charge controlling and blocking diodes to account for other issues that might come up... but that&#039;s not exactly super-portable like the EEE PC intends to be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Potential panels for EEE PC 10&#8243; solar cells:<br />
<a href="http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Panels/1-to-50-Watt-Solar-Panels/Kyocera-12W-12V-Mini-Solar-Panel/p718/" rel="nofollow">http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Panels/1-to-50-Watt-Solar-Panels/Kyocera-12W-12V-Mini-Solar-Panel/p718/</a></p>
<p>The only real drawback is fairly obvious:<br />
Extremely low current (amps) will result in very long times to charge.</p>
<p>Still, if you mounted 2 of these on an EEE PC and wired them in parallel, you could get an effective juice of 12v at around 0.2 Amps&#8230; not too snappy for a couple modules, but if the 3 amp output of the DC adapter means anything, that would give an amp hour every 10 hours (less from losses) of direct sunlight.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s worth it, really, but it would only cost about $80 to find out, potentially.</p>
<p>Personally I would look for better modules before settling on those ones.  I also might consider a fold-out design of home-made modules (from broken ones, of course) to provide more power than needed, using some charge controlling and blocking diodes to account for other issues that might come up&#8230; but that&#8217;s not exactly super-portable like the EEE PC intends to be.</p>
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		<title>By: cartufer</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cartufer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 02:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i considered doing this myself a few weeks ago and came to the conclusion i could get about 260ma(my genuine charger outputs 320ma) at 5v from solar panels available on dealextreme, the fat ds is good for this as it has significantly more surface, i decided not to solar power my ds because i&#039;m not in the sun enough

for best results use a usb inline battery backup]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i considered doing this myself a few weeks ago and came to the conclusion i could get about 260ma(my genuine charger outputs 320ma) at 5v from solar panels available on dealextreme, the fat ds is good for this as it has significantly more surface, i decided not to solar power my ds because i&#8217;m not in the sun enough</p>
<p>for best results use a usb inline battery backup</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: louis ii</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[louis ii]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Less redundant speculators please.

People with questions could go to the instruct-able and ask for more details there.  That that is where the project and maker/user are active, after all.

Thank you to the creator of this project for clarifying some of the details on this project by visiting this site.

Eee PC solar project:
Yes, there is enough space to put panels on the back side of the display, but it would make the device thicker (bigger) which appears to go against part of the &quot;small ideal&quot; which is one of the Eee&#039;s selling points.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Less redundant speculators please.</p>
<p>People with questions could go to the instruct-able and ask for more details there.  That that is where the project and maker/user are active, after all.</p>
<p>Thank you to the creator of this project for clarifying some of the details on this project by visiting this site.</p>
<p>Eee PC solar project:<br />
Yes, there is enough space to put panels on the back side of the display, but it would make the device thicker (bigger) which appears to go against part of the &#8220;small ideal&#8221; which is one of the Eee&#8217;s selling points.</p>
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		<title>By: dext3r</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dext3r]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i think you can just hook up a voltage source to the charging port of the DS just fine. You can get USB charging cables and I&#039;m assuming they just provide 5V to the DS. So whats the difference here?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think you can just hook up a voltage source to the charging port of the DS just fine. You can get USB charging cables and I&#8217;m assuming they just provide 5V to the DS. So whats the difference here?</p>
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		<title>By: phishinphree</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62864</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[phishinphree]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just wire in a max1555 between the battery and the panels and your all set.

Lipos come in all flavors, raw cells, cells w/ under-/over-voltage protection, some have charging circuits however they also have additional leads.  So, if your cell only has 2 pins, there is no built in charging circuit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wire in a max1555 between the battery and the panels and your all set.</p>
<p>Lipos come in all flavors, raw cells, cells w/ under-/over-voltage protection, some have charging circuits however they also have additional leads.  So, if your cell only has 2 pins, there is no built in charging circuit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: RealVision</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RealVision]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Alpha: No, the Pandora is a hacker&#039;s dream come true.. (albeit an expensive dream - but hey, just look at what you get)

As for protection, I can only confirm that there are, in fact, batteries with no protection at all.

80mA won&#039;t make anything explode (those things typically charge at 1,000s of mA), but it will certainly damage the cells (ie. they will have a shorter lifespan)... Basically the same mjn said :-P

(Disclaimer: I design high-power flashlights, so I know the batteries there, ie. round batteries. I assume square batteries are more of the same.. Would be weird if they weren&#039;t)

(Also have in mind that open-circuit voltage != actual in-circuit voltage)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alpha: No, the Pandora is a hacker&#8217;s dream come true.. (albeit an expensive dream &#8211; but hey, just look at what you get)</p>
<p>As for protection, I can only confirm that there are, in fact, batteries with no protection at all.</p>
<p>80mA won&#8217;t make anything explode (those things typically charge at 1,000s of mA), but it will certainly damage the cells (ie. they will have a shorter lifespan)&#8230; Basically the same mjn said :-P</p>
<p>(Disclaimer: I design high-power flashlights, so I know the batteries there, ie. round batteries. I assume square batteries are more of the same.. Would be weird if they weren&#8217;t)</p>
<p>(Also have in mind that open-circuit voltage != actual in-circuit voltage)</p>
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		<title>By: Alpha</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62818</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alpha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love the DS! It&#039;s a hackers dream come true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the DS! It&#8217;s a hackers dream come true.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mjn</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62816</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mjn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[sooo... lots of questions regarding battery protection. Time to clarify some things... Li-ion batteries need essentially the same protection as li-polys. Most chips that are designed to protect one are also designed to protect the other. Depending on how fancy of a chip you get - they&#039;ll protect against these things (among others): over-voltage, under-voltage, over-current, over-temperature, and cell balancing. Laptop battery protection circuits typically protect against all of those.

This circuitry is built into some packs, not others. I&#039;ve yet to see a modern laptop battery pack without this circuitry. I&#039;ve never seen a cell phone battery with a built in protection circuit. Typically they have a built in temperature sensor - hence the three terminals that most cell phone batteries have. I&#039;ve never taken apart a DS battery - but I highly doubt they have built in protection circuitry. Not in that form factor. No way.

OK with that out of the way - how do you typically charge li-ion or li-poly batteries? Well - most circuits give them a constant current with a voltage limit. Most packs can handle 1C or higher. So what this means is that you start out charging at your set current but as the pack gets full its voltage approaches the voltage limit and the charge current slowly tapers off.

Now - this guy&#039;s circuit just connects a current source to the terminals of the battery pack. It is a weak current source, but it still is a current source. This means that he is in fact overcharging his cells, albeit slowly. Will they explode? I bet if you left it out in the sun on a hot day the pack would puff up. He&#039;s certainly doing damage to the pack - but how much is just too hard to say.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sooo&#8230; lots of questions regarding battery protection. Time to clarify some things&#8230; Li-ion batteries need essentially the same protection as li-polys. Most chips that are designed to protect one are also designed to protect the other. Depending on how fancy of a chip you get &#8211; they&#8217;ll protect against these things (among others): over-voltage, under-voltage, over-current, over-temperature, and cell balancing. Laptop battery protection circuits typically protect against all of those.</p>
<p>This circuitry is built into some packs, not others. I&#8217;ve yet to see a modern laptop battery pack without this circuitry. I&#8217;ve never seen a cell phone battery with a built in protection circuit. Typically they have a built in temperature sensor &#8211; hence the three terminals that most cell phone batteries have. I&#8217;ve never taken apart a DS battery &#8211; but I highly doubt they have built in protection circuitry. Not in that form factor. No way.</p>
<p>OK with that out of the way &#8211; how do you typically charge li-ion or li-poly batteries? Well &#8211; most circuits give them a constant current with a voltage limit. Most packs can handle 1C or higher. So what this means is that you start out charging at your set current but as the pack gets full its voltage approaches the voltage limit and the charge current slowly tapers off.</p>
<p>Now &#8211; this guy&#8217;s circuit just connects a current source to the terminals of the battery pack. It is a weak current source, but it still is a current source. This means that he is in fact overcharging his cells, albeit slowly. Will they explode? I bet if you left it out in the sun on a hot day the pack would puff up. He&#8217;s certainly doing damage to the pack &#8211; but how much is just too hard to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Dark Sponge</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/02/12/solar-charging-your-ds/comment-page-1/#comment-62811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dark Sponge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=8474#comment-62811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[red&#039;s idea sounds cool]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>red&#8217;s idea sounds cool</p>
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