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	<title>Comments on: APRS tracking</title>
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	<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>By: k4wtf</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-73384</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[k4wtf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 13:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-73384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SF:  APRS is not violating any rules or regs by beaconing.  That is the operative word here.  It is BEACONING, not broadcasting.

Also, it is not required that those receiving your signal be licensed amateur radio operators.  Licensing only applies to those transmitting.  In a mode like APRS, any number of licensed stations will receive your beacon and depending on their configuration, digipeat it.

Last but not least, Bob - WB4APR will probably take exception, as will the FCC to the use of APRS by non-amateurs on FRS / GMRS or other similar radio services, especially if that use is commercial in nature.  While Bob allows his invention to be used freely by Amateur radio operators world-wide, commercial use is subject to licensing of the technology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SF:  APRS is not violating any rules or regs by beaconing.  That is the operative word here.  It is BEACONING, not broadcasting.</p>
<p>Also, it is not required that those receiving your signal be licensed amateur radio operators.  Licensing only applies to those transmitting.  In a mode like APRS, any number of licensed stations will receive your beacon and depending on their configuration, digipeat it.</p>
<p>Last but not least, Bob &#8211; WB4APR will probably take exception, as will the FCC to the use of APRS by non-amateurs on FRS / GMRS or other similar radio services, especially if that use is commercial in nature.  While Bob allows his invention to be used freely by Amateur radio operators world-wide, commercial use is subject to licensing of the technology.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: t0bY!</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-73316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[t0bY!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 06:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-73316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By tue way, the transceiver shown on the picture is not a cell phone but a KENWOOD TH-79.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By tue way, the transceiver shown on the picture is not a cell phone but a KENWOOD TH-79.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-73169</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 14:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-73169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Trialex - it&#039;s not APRS (the protocol) that requires a license, it&#039;s the radio.  You can use whatever license-free radios you can get your hands on, assuming your local rules allow data on those radios.  Just don&#039;t expect to get much range.

@anonymous - very bad idea.  And if you&#039;re encrypting the position, none of the existing APRS software will work anyway.  But more importantly, APRS users can and do track down pirates, even if it means resorting to radio direction finding.  Get caught doing that, and you&#039;re facing an $11,000 fine from the FCC.

In the US at least, there&#039;s no reason *not* to get a license.  I passed the test (with Morse code back then) at age 10, and so did my son.  I passed the Extra class exam after one Saturday spent cramming with the FCC question pool and Google, didn&#039;t ever crack a book or take a class.

Shameless plug: I&#039;m Byonic&#039;s primary competitor.  My OpenTracker+ outperforms the TinyTrak3+ used in the linked article in just about every way, and the source code is available under the BSD license, so you can hack away.  The TT3 is closed and you&#039;ll need to buy a new chip if you want to upgrade.

I&#039;ve also got a bunch of hard-to-find radio connectors and such, plus some good solderless breadboards cheaper than you&#039;ll find just about anywhere else, at http://www.argentdata.com/catalog .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Trialex &#8211; it&#8217;s not APRS (the protocol) that requires a license, it&#8217;s the radio.  You can use whatever license-free radios you can get your hands on, assuming your local rules allow data on those radios.  Just don&#8217;t expect to get much range.</p>
<p>@anonymous &#8211; very bad idea.  And if you&#8217;re encrypting the position, none of the existing APRS software will work anyway.  But more importantly, APRS users can and do track down pirates, even if it means resorting to radio direction finding.  Get caught doing that, and you&#8217;re facing an $11,000 fine from the FCC.</p>
<p>In the US at least, there&#8217;s no reason *not* to get a license.  I passed the test (with Morse code back then) at age 10, and so did my son.  I passed the Extra class exam after one Saturday spent cramming with the FCC question pool and Google, didn&#8217;t ever crack a book or take a class.</p>
<p>Shameless plug: I&#8217;m Byonic&#8217;s primary competitor.  My OpenTracker+ outperforms the TinyTrak3+ used in the linked article in just about every way, and the source code is available under the BSD license, so you can hack away.  The TT3 is closed and you&#8217;ll need to buy a new chip if you want to upgrade.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also got a bunch of hard-to-find radio connectors and such, plus some good solderless breadboards cheaper than you&#8217;ll find just about anywhere else, at <a href="http://www.argentdata.com/catalog" rel="nofollow">http://www.argentdata.com/catalog</a> .</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sf</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-73006</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 12:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-73006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a 2E0 HAM in the UK and have played with APRS tracking in a vehicle using UVIEW, software TNC, 2mtr radio and an old laptop with bluetooth GPS. 
...anyhow...
Is there a grey area here? The HAM license restricts operators to only transmit messages to other licensed ham operators and not to broadcast other than when calling CQ. With APRS, the digipeaters publish the station location details publicly on the internet where they can be viewed by non licensed people. So in essence it could be said that this guy may be breaking his license conditions as he intends members of his family #9if they are not licensed) to be the end receiver of his transmissions. Also APRS by design &#039;broadcasts&#039; and is not callign CQ nor is a message to another specific station so again that is against license conditions? Further still, license conditions demand that stations must have the ability to able to receive on the same frequency and same mode of transmission as a transmitter, but you can buy TX only APRS modules with no receive capability. So if using one of those modules whilst mobile or elsewhere without having the ability via another radio to listen to the frequency (I thinks it maybe to check for possible interference caused or receive complaints etc) then again it is surely in breech of license conditions?

BTW the new yaesu VX8 handheld will have APRS built-in with facilities to attach a GPS (although not the first handheld to do this)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a 2E0 HAM in the UK and have played with APRS tracking in a vehicle using UVIEW, software TNC, 2mtr radio and an old laptop with bluetooth GPS.<br />
&#8230;anyhow&#8230;<br />
Is there a grey area here? The HAM license restricts operators to only transmit messages to other licensed ham operators and not to broadcast other than when calling CQ. With APRS, the digipeaters publish the station location details publicly on the internet where they can be viewed by non licensed people. So in essence it could be said that this guy may be breaking his license conditions as he intends members of his family #9if they are not licensed) to be the end receiver of his transmissions. Also APRS by design &#8216;broadcasts&#8217; and is not callign CQ nor is a message to another specific station so again that is against license conditions? Further still, license conditions demand that stations must have the ability to able to receive on the same frequency and same mode of transmission as a transmitter, but you can buy TX only APRS modules with no receive capability. So if using one of those modules whilst mobile or elsewhere without having the ability via another radio to listen to the frequency (I thinks it maybe to check for possible interference caused or receive complaints etc) then again it is surely in breech of license conditions?</p>
<p>BTW the new yaesu VX8 handheld will have APRS built-in with facilities to attach a GPS (although not the first handheld to do this)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ham</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72947</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 22:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you just want to use APRS for your baloon experiments, just ask a local Ham to assist you, and use his/her signal.

I am sure that someone in your local hamclub is intrested in helping you out!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you just want to use APRS for your baloon experiments, just ask a local Ham to assist you, and use his/her signal.</p>
<p>I am sure that someone in your local hamclub is intrested in helping you out!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kc9ocd</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kc9ocd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 02:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[about time we got some ham radio stuff up here!!!
73 de KC9OCD]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>about time we got some ham radio stuff up here!!!<br />
73 de KC9OCD</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WA5ZNU</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WA5ZNU]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 21:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Come to the Maker Faire in the SF Bay Area at the end of May 2009 and see some APRS projects, plus an APRS-lite project that uses Part 15 (unlicensed) spectrum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come to the Maker Faire in the SF Bay Area at the end of May 2009 and see some APRS projects, plus an APRS-lite project that uses Part 15 (unlicensed) spectrum.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 21:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@k4wtf

APRS is sorta used with the Garmin Rinos. The FCC allowed a variance in the FRS rules for it, opening the floodgates for similar operations by others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@k4wtf</p>
<p>APRS is sorta used with the Garmin Rinos. The FCC allowed a variance in the FRS rules for it, opening the floodgates for similar operations by others.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72825</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 19:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72825</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*not a hack*  hell, its not even new.

meh w/e.

73&#039;s 
ki6wow]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*not a hack*  hell, its not even new.</p>
<p>meh w/e.</p>
<p>73&#8242;s<br />
ki6wow</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: k4wtf</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[k4wtf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK.  Glad to see APRS get some exposure again.  The hackaday crowd should have no problem getting their no-code tech ticket.  Honestly, if you can&#039;t pass the no-code tech, you&#039;re unlikely to be able to operate the radio, beaconing hardware, etc.

I&#039;ve been using APRS for the past &gt;10 years.  It works well.  It does NOT require a 2m repeater although some repeater operators have implemented a means to pass APRS beacons they hear in the input to the actual APRS frequency rather than repeating them on the output of the repeater.

APRS or any other form of telemetry can not be used on FRS.  While not a technical restriction or limitation, it is a legislative restriction of the service.  I&#039;m surprised that Garmin hasn&#039;t gotten into issues with the Rino radios doing it.  For that matter, I&#039;d like to see the &quot;blister pack&quot; radios limited to FRS freqs until you can demonstrate to the manufacturer that you have a valid GMRS ticket but, I guess that&#039;s just me.

As for making up a callsign and using APRS unlicensed, please just get your ticket and do it legally.  It is NOT that difficult.  If you can&#039;t/won&#039;t get your amateur radio license, find someone with a commercial frequency and become an authorized user on their frequency.  You can get a pair or &quot;rock bound&quot; data radios @ 460Mhz from numerous sources.  They work very well, especially in your balloon application and are light weight as well.

And to the &quot;No-Code Vs. Code&quot; warriors, come on folks... How many YEARS has it been and you&#039;re still having that argument?  I learned code.  It didn&#039;t kill me.  I enjoy CW now but, I did NOT when I had to learn it to get my ticket.  While it is a great communications mode and will get through when most others won&#039;t, psk31 and many of the other digital modes out perform it.  I&#039;ve had 5x5 PSK QSOs when we were unable, even with DSP, to copy CW because of band conditions.

Whatever floats your boat though.

73 de K4WTF]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK.  Glad to see APRS get some exposure again.  The hackaday crowd should have no problem getting their no-code tech ticket.  Honestly, if you can&#8217;t pass the no-code tech, you&#8217;re unlikely to be able to operate the radio, beaconing hardware, etc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been using APRS for the past &gt;10 years.  It works well.  It does NOT require a 2m repeater although some repeater operators have implemented a means to pass APRS beacons they hear in the input to the actual APRS frequency rather than repeating them on the output of the repeater.</p>
<p>APRS or any other form of telemetry can not be used on FRS.  While not a technical restriction or limitation, it is a legislative restriction of the service.  I&#8217;m surprised that Garmin hasn&#8217;t gotten into issues with the Rino radios doing it.  For that matter, I&#8217;d like to see the &#8220;blister pack&#8221; radios limited to FRS freqs until you can demonstrate to the manufacturer that you have a valid GMRS ticket but, I guess that&#8217;s just me.</p>
<p>As for making up a callsign and using APRS unlicensed, please just get your ticket and do it legally.  It is NOT that difficult.  If you can&#8217;t/won&#8217;t get your amateur radio license, find someone with a commercial frequency and become an authorized user on their frequency.  You can get a pair or &#8220;rock bound&#8221; data radios @ 460Mhz from numerous sources.  They work very well, especially in your balloon application and are light weight as well.</p>
<p>And to the &#8220;No-Code Vs. Code&#8221; warriors, come on folks&#8230; How many YEARS has it been and you&#8217;re still having that argument?  I learned code.  It didn&#8217;t kill me.  I enjoy CW now but, I did NOT when I had to learn it to get my ticket.  While it is a great communications mode and will get through when most others won&#8217;t, psk31 and many of the other digital modes out perform it.  I&#8217;ve had 5&#215;5 PSK QSOs when we were unable, even with DSP, to copy CW because of band conditions.</p>
<p>Whatever floats your boat though.</p>
<p>73 de K4WTF</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72777</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 15:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72777</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fees being discussed vary from country to country, and that may be why this discrepancy. In Canada your amateur license is lifetime, no charge. 

I understand the requirement for Code (used to be called Morse code) has been removed internationally, and from all bands, not just the amateur bands. It is a loss, but not much different from people no longer being able to universally ride horses. There will always be a niche need, and those who specialize in it for the sake of the skill and indeed, artistry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fees being discussed vary from country to country, and that may be why this discrepancy. In Canada your amateur license is lifetime, no charge. </p>
<p>I understand the requirement for Code (used to be called Morse code) has been removed internationally, and from all bands, not just the amateur bands. It is a loss, but not much different from people no longer being able to universally ride horses. There will always be a niche need, and those who specialize in it for the sake of the skill and indeed, artistry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: deathspal</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72764</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deathspal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 12:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@fartface Ditto on the news flash

Loved the &quot;Shortwave&quot; comment in the story, it&#039;s a UHF/VHF rig in the pic....  HEh not an HF.

73s all

hi hi]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fartface Ditto on the news flash</p>
<p>Loved the &#8220;Shortwave&#8221; comment in the story, it&#8217;s a UHF/VHF rig in the pic&#8230;.  HEh not an HF.</p>
<p>73s all</p>
<p>hi hi</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 12:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It’s not like you cannot use the APRS network without a licence. Just make up a callsign and maybe encrypt the position. It’ll just blend in with the tens of messages per second.&quot;

Then someone with DF will find you and you&#039;ll owe the FCC quite a bit of change. It&#039;s quite a hobby to find radio pirates in itself.

Invest in a couple of Garmin Rino radios instead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s not like you cannot use the APRS network without a licence. Just make up a callsign and maybe encrypt the position. It’ll just blend in with the tens of messages per second.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then someone with DF will find you and you&#8217;ll owe the FCC quite a bit of change. It&#8217;s quite a hobby to find radio pirates in itself.</p>
<p>Invest in a couple of Garmin Rino radios instead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: fartface</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72760</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fartface]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 12:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I did that about 10 years ago.  It&#039;s really easy, every part of it.

Heck his is huge compared to the ones you can build now from sparkfun and other places.

newsflash: hack-a-day discovers ham radio.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did that about 10 years ago.  It&#8217;s really easy, every part of it.</p>
<p>Heck his is huge compared to the ones you can build now from sparkfun and other places.</p>
<p>newsflash: hack-a-day discovers ham radio.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: maxkelley</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/aprs-tracking/comment-page-1/#comment-72751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maxkelley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 10:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=11014#comment-72751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not shortwave radio... it&#039;s ham radio. Don&#039;t see how its antiquated, but whatever you say...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not shortwave radio&#8230; it&#8217;s ham radio. Don&#8217;t see how its antiquated, but whatever you say&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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