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	<title>Comments on: Computer learns from tic-tac-toe</title>
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	<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-403853</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-403853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was involved in building one while at school in about 1972/73 - Chippenham School - Wiltshire - UK]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was involved in building one while at school in about 1972/73 &#8211; Chippenham School &#8211; Wiltshire &#8211; UK</p>
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		<title>By: Kiyoshi</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kiyoshi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;How about a nice game of chess?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How about a nice game of chess?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gyro_john</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105530</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gyro_john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Robotguy:

Yes!  That&#039;s how the character Greg Burgess learned to write software that could learn, leading to his creation of the self-aware networked AI in the book &#039;The Adolescence of P-1&#039;.  

I hunted up the book and read it because it was reviewed in Byte magazine back in the early &#039;80s.  A very good read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Robotguy:</p>
<p>Yes!  That&#8217;s how the character Greg Burgess learned to write software that could learn, leading to his creation of the self-aware networked AI in the book &#8216;The Adolescence of P-1&#8242;.  </p>
<p>I hunted up the book and read it because it was reviewed in Byte magazine back in the early &#8217;80s.  A very good read.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105508</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leigh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember something similar called Socrates and Mr. Hound, involving a deck of cards where each suit was a cardinal directional move for Socrates the fox, and Mr. Hound plodded along a square track near the edge of the board.  Whenever Mr. Hound caught Socrates, the last n cards would be removed and reshuffed.  Eventually, Socrates would learn to outwit Mr. Hound.  I built it out of Lego in the early 1970&#039;s.

Anybody remember what book this was from?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember something similar called Socrates and Mr. Hound, involving a deck of cards where each suit was a cardinal directional move for Socrates the fox, and Mr. Hound plodded along a square track near the edge of the board.  Whenever Mr. Hound caught Socrates, the last n cards would be removed and reshuffed.  Eventually, Socrates would learn to outwit Mr. Hound.  I built it out of Lego in the early 1970&#8242;s.</p>
<p>Anybody remember what book this was from?</p>
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		<title>By: Zahlman</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zahlman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The system consisting of the matchboxes and the person doing the bean removal/addition might qualify as a computer, but the boxes themselves do not.

@Mic: Where would you find matchboxes big enough to hold the hundreds of beans representing all possible moves for a go position?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The system consisting of the matchboxes and the person doing the bean removal/addition might qualify as a computer, but the boxes themselves do not.</p>
<p>@Mic: Where would you find matchboxes big enough to hold the hundreds of beans representing all possible moves for a go position?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Dodge</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Sean

First of all, sorry for being a dick last night.  I was a lot harsher than I meant to be, on rereading it.  I must have been overtired.

You have a point.  Maybe randomness does change the game.

I&#039;m used to dealing with cognition, not computation, and &quot;learn from your mistakes&quot; does seem like a cognitive task.

Since neurons are just tiny analogue computers, I&#039;m tempted to say that anything that&#039;s a cognitive task is also a computation.  But, I could be mixing up the definitions.  I guess it all depends on whether your theory of computation allows for probabilistic outcomes.  (Quantum computing?)

Tangentially relevant quotation:

&quot;The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.&quot; --Dijkstra

Alex Dodge]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sean</p>
<p>First of all, sorry for being a dick last night.  I was a lot harsher than I meant to be, on rereading it.  I must have been overtired.</p>
<p>You have a point.  Maybe randomness does change the game.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m used to dealing with cognition, not computation, and &#8220;learn from your mistakes&#8221; does seem like a cognitive task.</p>
<p>Since neurons are just tiny analogue computers, I&#8217;m tempted to say that anything that&#8217;s a cognitive task is also a computation.  But, I could be mixing up the definitions.  I guess it all depends on whether your theory of computation allows for probabilistic outcomes.  (Quantum computing?)</p>
<p>Tangentially relevant quotation:</p>
<p>&#8220;The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.&#8221; &#8211;Dijkstra</p>
<p>Alex Dodge</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Alex Dodge
No specific definition of computer was given, so I arbitrarily chose one (my bad). Admittedly there are other definitions, I&#039;ve tried to come up with a more interesting argument that relies on fewer assumptions:

As far as I can tell the machine has two functions: &quot;Output random number from 1-N&quot;, and &quot;Store a given value for N at a given address&quot;. If the machine is capable of computation, I&#039;m not sure what that computation would be, since that first function is not computable (and of high entropy)! The second function is just memory.

Thanks for the reply, I enjoyed thinking about this! (Also I still use a slide rule.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alex Dodge<br />
No specific definition of computer was given, so I arbitrarily chose one (my bad). Admittedly there are other definitions, I&#8217;ve tried to come up with a more interesting argument that relies on fewer assumptions:</p>
<p>As far as I can tell the machine has two functions: &#8220;Output random number from 1-N&#8221;, and &#8220;Store a given value for N at a given address&#8221;. If the machine is capable of computation, I&#8217;m not sure what that computation would be, since that first function is not computable (and of high entropy)! The second function is just memory.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply, I enjoyed thinking about this! (Also I still use a slide rule.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alex Dodge</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Sean

&quot;However… I cannot find a way to make it conditionally branch or copy the contents of one bit of memory to an arbitrary other bit, so my vote is &#039;Not a computer&#039;.&quot;

Your definition of computer makes no sense.  It performs a computation.  It is a computer.  It doesn&#039;t have to be Turing complete.  A slide rule is a computer.

Alex Dodge]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sean</p>
<p>&#8220;However… I cannot find a way to make it conditionally branch or copy the contents of one bit of memory to an arbitrary other bit, so my vote is &#8216;Not a computer&#8217;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your definition of computer makes no sense.  It performs a computation.  It is a computer.  It doesn&#8217;t have to be Turing complete.  A slide rule is a computer.</p>
<p>Alex Dodge</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: blue carbuncle</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blue carbuncle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PT Barnum would be jealous.  No one else had shitty parents in the 80s that bought one of these things from a yard sale?  I have a merlin right now but it is circuit-bent for MIDI sequencing.  Or how about &quot;Greetings professor Falcon, would you like to play a game?&quot;  The answer is still no Joshua and the attention whore who thought this was somehow original and post-worthy or even worth the ram on a digicam lmao.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PT Barnum would be jealous.  No one else had shitty parents in the 80s that bought one of these things from a yard sale?  I have a merlin right now but it is circuit-bent for MIDI sequencing.  Or how about &#8220;Greetings professor Falcon, would you like to play a game?&#8221;  The answer is still no Joshua and the attention whore who thought this was somehow original and post-worthy or even worth the ram on a digicam lmao.</p>
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		<title>By: gehan g</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gehan g]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@thethirdmoose

That was my first thought. I had marvin&#039;s book, &#039;The hangmans noose....&#039;. He talks about the matchbox bean engine in that book too. I specifically remembering him talking about a kid who built one but one and ate a jelly bean each time the &quot;computer&quot; lost....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@thethirdmoose</p>
<p>That was my first thought. I had marvin&#8217;s book, &#8216;The hangmans noose&#8230;.&#8217;. He talks about the matchbox bean engine in that book too. I specifically remembering him talking about a kid who built one but one and ate a jelly bean each time the &#8220;computer&#8221; lost&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mic</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The match box go engine also on his site, is hilarious. Made of beans and match boxes it is slightly bigger than the crab nebula. According to math.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The match box go engine also on his site, is hilarious. Made of beans and match boxes it is slightly bigger than the crab nebula. According to math.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105290</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It has memory (programmed and organized by choosing which games you win or lose) and a logic function (IF). However... I cannot find a way to make it conditionally branch or copy the contents of one bit of memory to an arbitrary other bit, so my vote is &quot;Not a computer&quot;. 

I haven&#039;t found a way to do it with two machines playing each other repeatedly either, whatever I run in my head just ends up with both machines ending up with memory contents that repeat with fixed period regardless of initial state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has memory (programmed and organized by choosing which games you win or lose) and a logic function (IF). However&#8230; I cannot find a way to make it conditionally branch or copy the contents of one bit of memory to an arbitrary other bit, so my vote is &#8220;Not a computer&#8221;. </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t found a way to do it with two machines playing each other repeatedly either, whatever I run in my head just ends up with both machines ending up with memory contents that repeat with fixed period regardless of initial state.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sly</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Shall we play a game?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Shall we play a game?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about that - an organic impilmentation of a &quot;Fuzzy&quot; logic network / computer]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about that &#8211; an organic impilmentation of a &#8220;Fuzzy&#8221; logic network / computer</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Almost_There</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/02/computer-learns-from-tic-tac-toe/comment-page-1/#comment-105273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Almost_There]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18025#comment-105273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is just a variant of Genetic Programming and a Neural Network; there are whole series of books written on the subject.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just a variant of Genetic Programming and a Neural Network; there are whole series of books written on the subject.</p>
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