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	<title>Comments on: Linear optical encoder</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/</link>
	<description>Fresh hacks every day</description>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-173174</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-173174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[if you look up moire fringes if you need more accuracy. tanks now use them to blow really far away stuff up!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you look up moire fringes if you need more accuracy. tanks now use them to blow really far away stuff up!</p>
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		<title>By: tantris</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tantris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@reboots 
but what if one would run the mouse on an optimal mousing surface (like an encoder strip)?
 or one could use the encoder only. some mice have the optical reader separate from the chip, that does the &quot;micing&quot;stuff. one can read image data directly from the chip. of course, calibration would have to be done in software, but one would also get feedback on possible errors.

some older link to someone using the mouse as a scanner (he however relies on the mouse telling him positions): http://hackaday.com/2006/01/07/optical-mouse-based-scanner/
(link to original is broken, but project is still here: http://spritesmods.com/?art=mouseeye )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@reboots<br />
but what if one would run the mouse on an optimal mousing surface (like an encoder strip)?<br />
 or one could use the encoder only. some mice have the optical reader separate from the chip, that does the &#8220;micing&#8221;stuff. one can read image data directly from the chip. of course, calibration would have to be done in software, but one would also get feedback on possible errors.</p>
<p>some older link to someone using the mouse as a scanner (he however relies on the mouse telling him positions): <a href="http://hackaday.com/2006/01/07/optical-mouse-based-scanner/" rel="nofollow">http://hackaday.com/2006/01/07/optical-mouse-based-scanner/</a><br />
(link to original is broken, but project is still here: <a href="http://spritesmods.com/?art=mouseeye" rel="nofollow">http://spritesmods.com/?art=mouseeye</a> )</p>
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		<title>By: mungewell</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mungewell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@roly
or use a long line of 2D barcodes encoding positional steps. Use the contents of barcode for rough position and location of barcode for find position.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@roly<br />
or use a long line of 2D barcodes encoding positional steps. Use the contents of barcode for rough position and location of barcode for find position.</p>
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		<title>By: Roly</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Goal: &quot;a way to know where the &#039;stage&#039; is&quot;

@Sheldon
Has fingered a potential problem.

See, you don&#039;t actually know where the stage is because this isn&#039;t actually an &quot;encoder&quot;.  It&#039;s more like a rotopulser.  Anyone with experience of a CP-80 type printer (or maybe FDD&#039;s) will have seen a jammed carrage vibrating in place while the driving processor is blissfully unaware that the carrage is nowhere near where it thinks (until maybe it returns to zero prematurely and causes an error).

@mungewell
said the magic word &quot;Gray code&quot;.

One way to know exactly where the carrage is at all times is to fully encode the traverse with as many bits of Grey code as required.

@Jim
just reinvented slide-wire feedback, used in early plotters.

@simpleplan
now THAT I really like.  Hat tip.

Which reminds me of a metrology setup that used a fine inter-digital ladder and a matching short reader strip.  In the macro this would count off the phase reversals for each ladder step (~1mm) but for the fine did a phase resolution between the ladder steps to better than 1 thou overall (retrofit gear for old mills, lathes, &amp;c; Nixie readouts, all TTL btw).

I&#039;d suggest the world of PCB photography would be a good starting point for large, very fine and regular structures.

@urlax
Slidewires worked, honestly.  And they were far from the most troublesome part of the recorder.  Wound slides were also used, but for home construction the evenness of the winding would be critical for positioning, and the wire thickness would limit fine resolution.

@reboots
Yer.  But say we combine mouse opticals with a fine printed Grey code strip, then read the mouse video directly, and in software interpolate based on the position of the code in the scan.  Give all that processing power something useful to do for once. :)

@Jim
&quot;Twang-wire&quot; rebalance?  That has to be either brilliant or crazy.  You might consider what happens if you measure the twang frequency on *both* sides of the head.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goal: &#8220;a way to know where the &#8216;stage&#8217; is&#8221;</p>
<p>@Sheldon<br />
Has fingered a potential problem.</p>
<p>See, you don&#8217;t actually know where the stage is because this isn&#8217;t actually an &#8220;encoder&#8221;.  It&#8217;s more like a rotopulser.  Anyone with experience of a CP-80 type printer (or maybe FDD&#8217;s) will have seen a jammed carrage vibrating in place while the driving processor is blissfully unaware that the carrage is nowhere near where it thinks (until maybe it returns to zero prematurely and causes an error).</p>
<p>@mungewell<br />
said the magic word &#8220;Gray code&#8221;.</p>
<p>One way to know exactly where the carrage is at all times is to fully encode the traverse with as many bits of Grey code as required.</p>
<p>@Jim<br />
just reinvented slide-wire feedback, used in early plotters.</p>
<p>@simpleplan<br />
now THAT I really like.  Hat tip.</p>
<p>Which reminds me of a metrology setup that used a fine inter-digital ladder and a matching short reader strip.  In the macro this would count off the phase reversals for each ladder step (~1mm) but for the fine did a phase resolution between the ladder steps to better than 1 thou overall (retrofit gear for old mills, lathes, &#038;c; Nixie readouts, all TTL btw).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest the world of PCB photography would be a good starting point for large, very fine and regular structures.</p>
<p>@urlax<br />
Slidewires worked, honestly.  And they were far from the most troublesome part of the recorder.  Wound slides were also used, but for home construction the evenness of the winding would be critical for positioning, and the wire thickness would limit fine resolution.</p>
<p>@reboots<br />
Yer.  But say we combine mouse opticals with a fine printed Grey code strip, then read the mouse video directly, and in software interpolate based on the position of the code in the scan.  Give all that processing power something useful to do for once. :)</p>
<p>@Jim<br />
&#8220;Twang-wire&#8221; rebalance?  That has to be either brilliant or crazy.  You might consider what happens if you measure the twang frequency on *both* sides of the head.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107168</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Or how about using an old electric guitar! 
Mount the pickup and a slider on the carriage, tension the string along the direction of travel. Electronically &#039;pluck&#039; the string with a solenoid or by using electromagnets. Frequency would be proportional to position, absolute position, dirt wouldnt be a problem, neither would humidity. 
For temperature you could actuate the slider and every once in a while vibrate it open to calibrate.
Get a few stepper drives in and it should sound great.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or how about using an old electric guitar!<br />
Mount the pickup and a slider on the carriage, tension the string along the direction of travel. Electronically &#8216;pluck&#8217; the string with a solenoid or by using electromagnets. Frequency would be proportional to position, absolute position, dirt wouldnt be a problem, neither would humidity.<br />
For temperature you could actuate the slider and every once in a while vibrate it open to calibrate.<br />
Get a few stepper drives in and it should sound great.</p>
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		<title>By: Howie</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107162</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Howie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jim: Once upon a time I had an &#039;analog mouse&#039; that worked this way. It plugged into the analog ins on a commodore 64 and pretended to be two paddle controllers. Worked well enough for the limited resolution on that computer. Where there would normally be an encoder disk on optical mice, there was a carbon track like the inside of a potentiometer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jim: Once upon a time I had an &#8216;analog mouse&#8217; that worked this way. It plugged into the analog ins on a commodore 64 and pretended to be two paddle controllers. Worked well enough for the limited resolution on that computer. Where there would normally be an encoder disk on optical mice, there was a carbon track like the inside of a potentiometer.</p>
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		<title>By: Mac</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why not dispel with the encoder strip altogether and use an optical mouse encoder instead.  You&#039;ll get both X and Y position encoding down to fractions of a millimeter with a single sensor.  A laser mouse encoder should do even better. The surface the encoder works against can be any surface usually encountered on a desktop (even a plain sheet of white paper).  The two links below should prove helpful for the interested.  Cheers.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~maccody/robotics/mouse_hack/mouse_hack.html

http://home.roadrunner.com/~maccody/robotics/croms-1/croms-1.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not dispel with the encoder strip altogether and use an optical mouse encoder instead.  You&#8217;ll get both X and Y position encoding down to fractions of a millimeter with a single sensor.  A laser mouse encoder should do even better. The surface the encoder works against can be any surface usually encountered on a desktop (even a plain sheet of white paper).  The two links below should prove helpful for the interested.  Cheers.</p>
<p><a href="http://home.roadrunner.com/~maccody/robotics/mouse_hack/mouse_hack.html" rel="nofollow">http://home.roadrunner.com/~maccody/robotics/mouse_hack/mouse_hack.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://home.roadrunner.com/~maccody/robotics/croms-1/croms-1.html" rel="nofollow">http://home.roadrunner.com/~maccody/robotics/croms-1/croms-1.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: hrpuffnstuff</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107104</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hrpuffnstuff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember pulling the encoders out on the XY table of an ESI Model 44 laser trimmer only to find the lines rubbed off from misalignment. So thats why the table kept slamming into the stops.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember pulling the encoders out on the XY table of an ESI Model 44 laser trimmer only to find the lines rubbed off from misalignment. So thats why the table kept slamming into the stops.</p>
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		<title>By: jkopel</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107073</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jkopel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I got this same sort of thing running using the mylar strip and encoder that comes with the ink jet. Simple PID control on an arduino give surprizingly accurate positioning! http://abigmagnet.blogspot.com/search/label/motor%20control]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got this same sort of thing running using the mylar strip and encoder that comes with the ink jet. Simple PID control on an arduino give surprizingly accurate positioning! <a href="http://abigmagnet.blogspot.com/search/label/motor%20control" rel="nofollow">http://abigmagnet.blogspot.com/search/label/motor%20control</a></p>
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		<title>By: reboots</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[reboots]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@tantris

At 120-150 lines per inch, much lower resolution than even the cheapest optical mouse. But, assuming clean optics, they yield very precise measurement. Optical mice have relatively poor accuracy: losing track of their position, skipping pixels, etc. Great for rough motion tracking, terrible for quantifying it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tantris</p>
<p>At 120-150 lines per inch, much lower resolution than even the cheapest optical mouse. But, assuming clean optics, they yield very precise measurement. Optical mice have relatively poor accuracy: losing track of their position, skipping pixels, etc. Great for rough motion tracking, terrible for quantifying it.</p>
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		<title>By: urlax</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107057</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[urlax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jim

you can better use resistive wire isolated with enamel and wind it on a wooden rod. or a pvc one. that way, your resistance will be much higher, reducing the error. (the wiper will oxydate, introducing uncertainty.) 

for instance, if you want to measure an axis of Oddlers device, you&#039;d use 2 meters of wire. (1mm² nichrome would have an resistance of 2,1 Ohm.)

if you wound the wire around an bar with an circumference of 1cm, you would need 2000 turns, using 20 meters of wire. the resistance would become 21 Ohms, which requires less current, and gives a better resolution.

it would look like this, but longer:
http://www.zsa-one.com/Upfiles/Prod_X/2007122474655.jpg]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jim</p>
<p>you can better use resistive wire isolated with enamel and wind it on a wooden rod. or a pvc one. that way, your resistance will be much higher, reducing the error. (the wiper will oxydate, introducing uncertainty.) </p>
<p>for instance, if you want to measure an axis of Oddlers device, you&#8217;d use 2 meters of wire. (1mm² nichrome would have an resistance of 2,1 Ohm.)</p>
<p>if you wound the wire around an bar with an circumference of 1cm, you would need 2000 turns, using 20 meters of wire. the resistance would become 21 Ohms, which requires less current, and gives a better resolution.</p>
<p>it would look like this, but longer:<br />
<a href="http://www.zsa-one.com/Upfiles/Prod_X/2007122474655.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.zsa-one.com/Upfiles/Prod_X/2007122474655.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: simpleplan</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107047</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[simpleplan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you use two strips with N and N-1 divisions respectively, you also get an absolute position measurement.  This is a kind of optical hetrodyne encoder.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you use two strips with N and N-1 divisions respectively, you also get an absolute position measurement.  This is a kind of optical hetrodyne encoder.</p>
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		<title>By: tantris</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tantris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[how does a printer encoder compare to the optics chip from a mouse?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how does a printer encoder compare to the optics chip from a mouse?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tyco</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tyco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jim:

&quot;I thought the best way might be to use some resistance wire and a wiper on the carriage... It would be very cheap and absolute though&quot;

This is very similar to what was done back in the 60s and 70s for electronic console organs (and probably portable ones too). There was a long bus bar (with some voltage across it) that ran the length of the console, and each key was connected to a stiff wire that touched the bus bar, providing a voltage for a VCO. Tuning was accomplished by bending the wires.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jim:</p>
<p>&#8220;I thought the best way might be to use some resistance wire and a wiper on the carriage&#8230; It would be very cheap and absolute though&#8221;</p>
<p>This is very similar to what was done back in the 60s and 70s for electronic console organs (and probably portable ones too). There was a long bus bar (with some voltage across it) that ran the length of the console, and each key was connected to a stiff wire that touched the bus bar, providing a voltage for a VCO. Tuning was accomplished by bending the wires.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://hackaday.com/2009/11/12/linear-optical-encoder/comment-page-1/#comment-107024</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hackaday.com/?p=18334#comment-107024</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Otis uses something like this on some of their elevators except using a bar code scanner and bar codes on stickers covering the entire height of the elevator shaft.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otis uses something like this on some of their elevators except using a bar code scanner and bar codes on stickers covering the entire height of the elevator shaft.</p>
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