The talk is called “17 Mistakes Microsoft made in the Xbox Security System”. Extensive info, including videos of the lecture, can be found at http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/17_Mistakes_Microsoft_Made_in_the_Xbox_Security_System

A very interesting talk. I am always amazed by the genius of these console hackers.

Happy day!

I found this interesting youtube vid on xbox security http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktENZ2gyixg

Wow, that truly is epic fail. Can’t wait to dig through failOverflow’s code… the stuff console hackers come up with always makes my brain melt. Also, love the XKCD reference, that one always makes me laugh.

I’d say they did pretty good at DRM, the PS3 is several YEARS old, likely THOUSANDS (or more) hard at work trying to crack it, and it finally succumbed. I am ashamed that companies feel the need to preclude paying customers from doing what they want, the pirates will always win in the end.

i believe this may be the thread from 2003 that you may be looking for. the original project was the neo

http://theneoproject.com/

i remember those early great days of mod chips on the xbox. the evolution x and matrix chip made me the geek i am today

peace
seamonkey420

Here’s a video on the Xbox 360, from the same conference three years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtDTNnEvlf8

@andar_b As they said in the video, while the PS3 still had OtherOS, there was little motivation to try and hack it. Once OtherOS disappeared, the timeline to breakage was comparable to that of the XBox 360.

Cracking the Code was not easy…
1… Nope
2… Nope
3… Nope
4… Nope

(Now you know why it took so many years…)

@’took long’-sayers: They make the (imo valid) point that no-one seriously started hacking the system until Sony pulled the otherOS-feature, and seeing the omghuge amount of fail the team uncovered in a short amount of time, I tend to believe them.

Btw: They never stated where we could find the keys, but on the day of the talk all of a sudden small stickers appeared all over the congress building 27c3 was held in, with different QR-codes on them… you may guess what was on them :P

Deconstructing The Xbox Security System is the talk I think you maybe referring to. It’s a fantastic talk about the security models, really simple to understand, highly recommended.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4356347903120410001#

1:02:17 – 4 years ago
Google Tech Talks December 1, 2006 ABSTRACT In late 2001, Microsoft released the Xbox, their first gaming console, to compete against Sony and Nintendo in the living room. As the real money is made with the games and not the consoles, Microsoft had to make sure (as much as they could) that nobody could play pirated games or use the machine for anything other than games. Although the original security design idea was a good one and has been copied a lot since then, Microsoft’s inexperienced team made a variety of design, implementation, and policy mistakes. This talk first (re)constructs the design of the Xbox security system from Microsoft’s point of view, and then deconstructs it from the hacker’s point of view. As a bonus, the talk will feature some insights in the security system of the Xbox successor, the Xbox 360. Michael Steil is the founder and maintainer of the Xbox-Linux Project. He oversaw most of the Xbox hacks and also contributed to hacking, reverse engineering and porting Linux on the Xbox. Google Tech Talks December 1, 2006 ABSTRACT In late 2001, Microsoft released the Xbox, their first gaming console, to compete against Sony and Nintendo in the living room. As the real money is made with the games and not the consoles, Microsoft had to make sure (as much as they could) that nobody could play pirated games or use the machine for anything other than games. Although the original security design idea was a good one and has been copied a lot since then, Microsoft’s inexperienced team made a variety of design, implementation, and policy mistakes. This talk first (re)constructs the design of the Xbox security system from Microsoft’s point of view, and then deconstructs it from the hacker’s point of view. As a bonus, the talk will feature some insights in the security system of the Xbox successor, the Xbox 360. Michael Steil is the founder and maintainer of the Xbox-Linux Project. He oversaw most of the Xbox hacks and also contributed to hacking, reverse engineering and porting Linux on the …all » Google Tech Talks December 1, 2006 ABSTRACT In late 2001, Microsoft released the Xbox, their first gaming console, to compete against Sony and Nintendo in the living room. As the real money is made with the games and not the consoles, Microsoft had to make sure (as much as they could) that nobody could play pirated games or use the machine for anything other than games. Although the original security design idea was a good one and has been copied a lot since then, Microsoft’s inexperienced team made a variety of design, implementation, and policy mistakes. This talk first (re)constructs the design of the Xbox security system from Microsoft’s point of view, and then deconstructs it from the hacker’s point of view. As a bonus, the talk will feature some insights in the security system of the Xbox successor, the Xbox 360. Michael Steil is the founder and maintainer of the Xbox-Linux Project. He oversaw most of the Xbox hacks and also contributed to hacking, reverse engineering and porting Linux on the Xbox.

There is this book too.

Hacking the Xbox: An Introduction to Reverse Engineering.

Anybody who remembers the XCP DRM mega-fiasco where Sony BMG got caught using pirated code as part of their anti-piracy protection would not be surprised that they shot themselves in the foot again.

SONY *HATES* THEIR CUSTOMERS!

Are the actual AES and DSA private keys (i.e. the things you need to create and sign PS3 executables so they can run on any unmodified PS3) out there yet?

@Jonathan Wilson:They show how to dump them from LS using revocation overflow. You can expose everything on PS3 now except what loads lv0 on the CBE, and I think a few SPU binaries.

One thing they poorly assume though is that SCE can’t patch the overflow without breaking old code.

Not only can they fix PKI while keeping old keys, but they can fix everything outside what loads lv0 in ROM. LS memory overlaps as was demonstrated before geohot in the phrack paper, all it take is bounds checking on the SPE mailbox DMA..

Also note that lv2 has no w^x, so you can leverage a full attack from lv2 LPAR if all you care about is Linux, and keep doing it..

cause its cool to run linux on a 65 inch plasma on a set top box, then double click the power switch and run GOD OF WAR!!!

same with me and my XBOX 1, eh maybe I want to watch google video, maybe I want to watch something I stored on my hard drive, maybe I want to listen to shoutcast on my big sound, maybe I want to play some NES games (that I have the carts for, a entire foot locker worth along with snes and sega G games) fuck maybe I want to play psyconauts

I dont even have to get off my ass as its all in 1 box with a dvd remote and a wireless logitech controller

with most of the work done for me just add media and go

ps cantido your the bottom of the barrel.

What’s going to be funny is in a year++ from now when there still isn’t a Linux on the PS3, and it turns out just like Wii and x360 that were also claimed to be hacked to run Linux.

Also this is leveraged off Geohot’s hack which is what caused removal of OtherOS and Piracy..it appears people with skills can also suffer from talking before thinking ^^

@addidis

>>SCE Bent them selves over
>>and lubed up for this when
>>they removed Otheros.

So no one in the world was trying to hack the thing from day one? Sony most likely removed the OtherOS feature just to save themselves headache opposed to being hugely worried about security implications and obviously it had no commercial interest.

>>NO ONE but them are to blame
>>for motivating the community to
>>hack their console.

“the community” being 99.99% teenage kids posting “I haz haxed the PS3″ and like 5 people that actually know anything?

>>Those with the ability refrained
>>until SCE tried to screw already
>>paid customers out of what they bought.

Is that really the truth? Really really really? Isn’t it more the case the Geohots work and the PSJailbreak came along which shed huge amounts of light on the
situation? The OtherOS was an unsupported freebie from everything I can find. I can’t find any usage numbers but I guess that people using the OtherOS feature on a daily basis is in the thousands max.. how many million units have shipped?

>Eventually they will learn not to
>futz with their loyal customers
>AFTER they pay.

The customer paid for a PS3. Which is a proprietary games console that is intended only to run software licensed by Sony. The customer knew that when the bought it and agreed to various EULA’s etc to that fact (Forget the fact that they aren’t really all that legally useful in a lot of places).

>>Otherwise you can expect to
>>see game developers flock to
>>other consoles.

Which all have the same/similar security features.. because game publishers want those features? If game publishers were against this sort of thing why do they ship Windows games with all sorts of awful protections like online saves etc?

>>ONCE AGAIN..PS3 WAS HACKED *LONG* BEFORE OTHEROS/LINUX REMOVAL!!<<<

the pseudo-ethical marketing is nice though..the original dongle makers also used it even though their product *also* till this day has no homebrew and/or Linux framework..they even protect it..

It's really annoying reading all this garbage, and to all these Linux drones(who never used the feature in the first place which was an assisted cause in it's removal..) please DO point us to where we can get these Linux loaders that were the supposed cause of all this DRM circumvention(I'm sure the game makers who can't cover dev and publisher costs will also like to see these too..since they are the *only* reason other than piracy ^^)

Can someone explain to me why this cannot be solved by software updates in a few lines?

And from what i gather fixing this flaw would make the system very hard to crack?

@xorpunk

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii-Linux
http://free60.org/Linux_Kernel
http://git.marcansoft.com/?p=ps3-linux.git;a=summary

Also, if you can find a system with 250gb hd, wifi, bluetooth, gigabit ethernet, a processor capable of decoding h264 in real time, a blu-ray player, a remote controller, hdmi and the ability to play a large library of games for 300€, all with a nice design, please let me know.

The PS3 has the potential to become a very nice and complete mediacenter, thanks to Linux.

OK, hackers. Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to build a mobile robot based on the PS3, capable of interacting with its surroundings and processing visual, audio and other inputs in realtime.

You may remount the pcb in a carrier as needed, to make it more compact/improve cooling.

any takers?
i’d expect the Cell architecture to be ideal for this, as the individual cores are effectively separate and can be retasked to process data as needed.

blows SBCs out of the water on power consumption alone.

It’s always amazing to read how very little most people get it… Even on this website, which is supposed to be ‘hack oriented’.
Next time, instead of writing garbage, making (bad) assumptions about why it was cracked, the ‘real’ non-marketing hidden motivations and so on, just come to CCC, and come to talk to them at our table. Until then, you’re just plain insulting people you dont even know based on why _you_ would do it.
I thought it has been known for quite a while now that making _anything_ run linux is one of the main game in the hackers’ world. So if you think it’s just an excuse to run pirated games you’re very short sighted to say the least, and you really dont understand this ‘hacking thing”…

And btw, a lot of scientists, hell even the US gov, bought a lot of PS3 because it’s a cheap computing unit, and based on the idea they could run linux. Not that it changes anything about the ‘make it run linux’ game anyhow, just saying…

@Daid: yes, presenting a talk requires skill, but if you dont practice you’ll never have it. Same goes with anything. Moreover some parts were rushed because during reharsals the talk was too long (and some slides got removed in the last 30min for some other reasons) and in the end, they were surprised to finish it with 15min extra.

Wow. Those are some awesome videos.

It’s stunning that we got the PS3 keys before we ever got the Xbox (1) private keys.

I have no clue what @xorpunk is smoking, but I’m not a PSGroove developer and I’ve never touched a single line of PSGroove/PSFreedom/PL3 payload code nor have I ever even run them on my PS3, except one time when I was instrumenting GameOS hypercalls to try to figure out how to make the drive work under AsbestOS/Linux (to read e.g. Linux install DVDs, I don’t care about Blu-Ray game authentication). I’ve certainly never worked even the slightest on any kind of warez (oh, sorry, “backup”) launcher for any system. The only PS3 project I’ve ever worked on besides the recent 27c3 developments is AsbestOS (and I’m the sole developer of AsbestOS so far).

Also, you’re way off base with Wii Linux. Like, *completely* off base. The Wii is a PowerPC processor, and Linux runs great on it and its drivers perform better than native game/IOS drivers. What’s missing is a proper 3D graphics driver, but that’s missing on the PS3 too, and it’s a hard problem to solve. You’re completely confusing that with Mini, which is a support firmware running on the ARM Starlet which was partially developed to support Linux on the PowerPC, and which works *with* (and actually bootloads) Linux on the Wii.

You’re also completely off base with the PS3. You can use AsbestOS to boot graphical Linux meeting and exceeding the capabilities of OtherOS *today* (over a month ago, really), and people have done so. AsbestOS is a bootloader that can boot a full-blown Linux kernel better than OtherOS can (heck, it’s a lot smarter and actually supports proper Linux boot standards). I just haven’t demoed a windowing system because the whole thing isn’t quite user-friendly enough for me to bother working on that part yet, but other people have done so (this will get better soon since during 27C3 I added support for HDD booting and a FAT filesystem for the boot partition, so it no longer requires network boot). Again, you’re confusing support software/bootloader (AsbestOS) with the actual Linux kernel that gets booted afterwards and which is every bit as capable as any other Linux kernel.

So please get a clue before posting nonsense. This whole PS3 story is already being misrepresented enough already, we don’t need people completely misreporting the state of Linux on these platforms too.

On another note, people keep forgetting that THE PS3 WAS CLOSED WHEN THE SLIM WAS RELEASED WITHOUT LINUX, which was BEFORE the Geohot exploit and the reason for it. I’m getting tired of repeatedly reminding people of this. Pulling OtherOS on the Fat was a dick move and pissed a lot of people off, but the root cause of this whole ordeal was artificially disabling OtherOS on the Slim for no good reason. Sony started this entirely out of their own volition, and none of this would have happened had they retained Linux support on the Slim.

Reminder: all currently manufactured PS3s are PERMANENTLY broken. Sonny CANNOT fix this because they CANNOT revoke older firmware the way Microsoft can blow eFUSEs on the 360. Every single PS3 out there is now permanently hackable via a NAND/NOR writer (or modchip, or whatever). Period. This isn’t just another hole to patch, this is “current PS3s are now just as permanently modchippable as PS2s were” and “even in newer units they’re going to have a HARD time fixing it”.

>>Until then, you’re just plain
>>insulting people you dont even
>>know based on why _you_ would do it.

Xorpunk seems to be under the impression that everything is done for piracy. If you read any paper into why people do open source work etc it’s A: They are being paid or B: they do it for “respect”, “fame” etc.. I think the reasoning here is very much towards the B. Other people i.e. PSJailbreak would be towards A.

>>And btw, a lot of scientists,
>>hell even the US gov,
>>bought a lot of PS3 because
>>it’s a cheap computing unit,

Do you have anything to back that up? I’d say that’d be a really silly business decision. Can you imagine saying to your boss.. “Ok, so what we’re going to do is buy a ton of systems that are closed, amazingly proprietary, have zero support from the vendor for our application..”
I’d be surprised if the “US Gov” bought PS3′s in huge numbers considering all the different loop holes vendors have to go through to get the government over there to use their kit.

@Pete

>>such as the iPhone in regards to lockdowns

The iPhone etc are just a little bit special I would say. The main problem there is that the system has a single entry point for software which is controlled by Apple and the problem is that they change their minds every other day on what is acceptable and what is not. Vote with your money, buy Android instead. In any case if you want to run third party code on your iPhone you can.. get yourself a $50 developer license.

>> will be on pcs in the not too distant future.

You’re thinking of Trusted Computing I guess.. the only machines that ship with it built in? Apple X86 machines.

>>It’s you device.

In the case of mobile phone.. No, usually it isn’t yours. Usually it is loaned to you through a set of carefully selected contract stipulations.

>>You should be able to run what you like on it.

When you turned your device on and didn’t read the first use EULA you probably missed the part that said “contrary to common sense, no you can’t do what you like.. you will do as you are told”. Why companies are allowed to get away with this shit is a total mystery,..

>>Imagine a pc where you can’t install
>>Linux because only

The PC is an open platform, with standards etc.. unless a specific vendor decides to make their X86 PC’s proprietary (Again, Apple) it won’t happen.

>>This kind of hacking sends a message
>>to these companies that they either work
>>with us (so token Linux support)

Or just buy hardware that is already supported? Why does everyone think they have a right to Linux? Considering how bad some drivers etc are the most popular Linux archs .. i386 and amd64.. why would you want Linux on anything else other than “for shits and giggles”. I have run “Linux” on Amiga m68k, Hitachi H8, Hitachi SuperH, Amiga PowerPC, Mac PowerPC, Xilinx Microblaze, SPARC, UltraSPARC.. most of these have like 1 active developer and maybe some token vendor support.. after the initial “wow it runs the Linux” you will soon notice that it is a toy and nothing more.
And why not NetBSD? Why does it have to be Linux?

** Sony subsidise their hardware, they have no interest in subsidising hardware for people that aren’t going to buy their licensed software. **

>>or we will find a way around them
>>and it’ll be worse for them in the
>>long run.

No it won’t. Unless you generate billions in revenue for Sony they literally do not give a shit what you think. How many people cared about Linux on the PS3.. not enough for Sony to bother keeping their official support around. If you’re trying to argue that “If we don’t get Linux we hack the consoles which allows piracy too”.. again that doesn’t hold up to interrogation. If Linux didn’t exist there would still be people producing hacked xbox 360 drive firmware, the PSJailbreak would have still happened.

In my opinion the scene before this whole “ethical hacking/I’m a security researcher” was better anyhow. Where are the cracktros?

@marcan

>>What’s missing is a proper 3D graphics driver

Does it even have 2D acceleration in Xorg yet?

>>but that’s missing on the PS3 too,
>>and it’s a hard problem to solve.

At least with the PS3 it isn’t much of a moving target. If someone comes along and writes a driver it’s not like it will need updating every few months to support new boards like the open nvidia and ati drivers..

>>full-blown Linux kernel better

You mean one that isn’t sitting on top of the hypervisor? Does it really make that much difference?

>>I just haven’t demoed a windowing system

Are you working on getting Xorg support upstream? Or is it going to be a patch set that works against one version of Xorg only to be abandoned when the few active developers aren’t interested anymore?

Is there going to be a VA-API driver??

oh btw cantido I cant get a X86 box to run PS3 game titles while doing everything else as a tri core 3ghz ppc and a geforce 8 1080 P and bluray, that is damn near silent (seriously have you heard one of these machines, the bluray drive makes more noise than anything) for less than 199$

seriously dude, your digging a hole to china, with made up stats and opinions

its damn near the same tactic sony uses, “WELL game X is a complete pile of shit and cost a fuckton of money, it HAS to be PIRACY !!!”

whatever, like on my PSP, there honestly is not enough games worth playing to justify the console’s price, sony blames piracy, I blame nothing better to do with a 300$ doorstop

meanwhile my DS is 100X easier to hack but still sells a shitton of software, wonder why (maybe cause its not garbage)

@osgeld

>>tri core 3ghz ppc

The PS3 isn’t a tri-core PPC core.. it’s a single PPC with co-processors isn’t it? Has anyone written any homebrew that uses the co-processors??
The XBOX 360 is a tri-core PowerPC design yes.. what core is it though? PPC is essentially dead on the desktop.. everything that is around i.e. the “Next Gen” Amiga stuff/Industrial machines are based on older stuff around the G2 PPC era and don’t have Altivec etc. Note that Sony is/has buying the fab that makes the Cell processors back from Toshiba.. so the only people using those chips on any scale is Sony. Sony heavily subsidise the PS3, hence it looks like an “amazing deal(tm)” and hence they will do everything in they can to protect their revenue stream.

>> and a geforce 8 1080 P and bluray,

I can play 1080P bluray rips on my Atom machine.. ION has VA-API support… the board costs around $100. Full VESA mountable machines can be had for $250 I think. I run Debian on it. I wanted to run Linux, so I bought a machine that could run Linux, I wouldn’t buy a console and get all upset that I couldn’t use it as a computer.

>>that is damn near silent

Really? The original PS3 was noisy as hell and the XBOX360 isn’t much better. The slim I haven’t seen. Let’s forget all the reliability issues.

>>hole to china

Well, it’s not that far from Japan..
Anyhow, yes, I am pulling stats out of the air.. these are informed guesses though. Check the Debian popcon stats for PPC. There aren’t an awful lot of machines running Debian PPC these days.
What are all the hacked Wii’s, XBOX360′s and PS3′s running? Fedora have dropped PPC builds.. what are all these machines running?

>>“WELL game X is a complete pile
>>of shit and cost a fuckton of
>>money, it HAS to be PIRACY !!!”

We all know the piracy stuff is a total pile of shit. We all know if Sony were losing real money over it they wouldn’t bother bringing out new hardware but they are.. so it can’t be that bad can it? Saying that hacks like this only happen because people want Linux support is also total garbage. There has been piracy since the days of the Sinclair, Commodore 64, Amiga.. and there’s going to be piracy as long as security systems can still be broken and make a profit. These guys apparently did all this work to run Linux, which is great, nice work, but saying it wouldn’t have happened otherwise is just silly. Personally I think it’s fairly insulting to the warez release groups.

>whatever, like on my PSP,

Which is hacked.. but can’t really run real Linux because it doesn’t have an MMU. But hacks only happen to run Linux right? Oh.

>>there honestly is not enough
>>games worth playing to justify
>>the console’s price,

When a new games console comes out these days the vendor doesn’t make any profit on the hardware. The hardware is heavily subsidised and the vendor makes their profits by being to sole way of entry onto that platform.

>>sony blames piracy, I blame
>>nothing better to do with a 300$ doorstop

They blame piracy for what? They removed a feature they didn’t want to bother supporting. Geohot’s work might have pushed them in that direction.

>>meanwhile my DS is 100X easier to hack

Again, it’s hacked and it doesn’t really run a useful Linux (again no MMU). So why was it hacked?
Dark Fader, the guy that did the first hack IIRC, actually comes here.. maybe he could tell us?

>>but still sells a shitton of software,
>>wonder why (maybe cause its not garbage)

Well, the DS was pretty underpowered at release, just like the Wii. It has titles people want and that’s partly down to Nintendo’s strict licensing/quality control. I.e. they won’t allow you to release games on their platforms unless they give you the ok (you can dig up the compliance docs for a SNES game on the interwebs). Which ironically is again linked to their anti-piracy/anti-third party systems.

Maybe if all the warez release groups didn’t get busted this would have happened sooner? Call our boards!

@marcan: GitHub and ridiculous amount of twitter posts by other PSGroove devs say otherwise..maybe they imagined you helping and thanked you ^^

I challenge you to link to even a single source where owners of the consoles you mentioned can get Linux that is more than a stripped down shell and kernel with a half working UI server..

**Also like I mentioned: time stamps on any source you care to link to more than reinforce my statements**

> Saying that hacks like this only happen because people want Linux support is also total garbage. There has been piracy since the days of the Sinclair, Commodore 64, Amiga.. and there’s going to be piracy as long as security systems can still be broken and make a profit

You also have to remember that “cracking” is usually the first entry at learning reverse engineering for a lot of people (sure, not all of them). Not to be an ass, but most people working for warez group are in their infancy (skills wise), they usually start with serial patches, then move to keygen then games. cracking securom,safedisc is not hard, it’s harder than most serial keygens sure, but this is far from being that hard.
Hacking embedded devices/consoles require more experience and skills. And the point being made is that people with the skills to pull it off _fast_ usually dont work in the wz scene.

@Volfram

>>2k PS3s is an ENORMOUS number

For who? Not for Sony obviously.. 2k PS3′s out of 40 million.. pissing in the breeze. If two million people were actively using the OtherOS function they may have cared about it. I think this is very much a “vocal minority” thing though.

>as they are indeed consumer models,

I actually looked this up and I couldn’t find anything that gave many actual specifics on what the units were.. you would have thought that the DoD would have at least tried to get development units. Also, why are the DoD importing Japanese hardware? Why didn’t they talk to IBM directly? Sounds very much like publicity grabbing to me.

>publicly complaining that Sony wouldn’t
>cut them some sort of discount for bulk

Wow.. you realise I said “a bad business decision” and you just backed that up. So they made a bad decision and bought a load of machines the vendor basically didn’t want to sell them (Sony lost money on those units). Now they have a 2K machines that they can’t update.. No PSN for the boys at the DoD.

>>You’re either the most uninformed
>>person I’ve ever seen

So I didn’t read some detail-less press releases about some supposed cluster of 2K machines that actually makes no difference to the key point I have been making .. “The PS3 was a prime target to be hacked, even if OtherOS was still on the fat and Sony shipped it on the slim PS3 it would have been eventually hacked.. recent discovers have lead to this happening not some huge spurt in motivation because nasty Sony took away some feature 3 people were using”.

>Not to be an ass, but most people
>working for warez group are in their
>infancy (skills wise),

Well, piracy is pretty watered down these days isn’t it. I blame bittorrent. There were some pretty skilled guys back in the day cracking Speccy speed loaders. PSX was cracked by a warez guy IIRC (he sold the solution to the highest bidder), Dreamcast was cracked by Utopia IIRC, PS2 was cracked by Paradox… The later hacks for the PSP came from information of “dubious legality” right?

>>Hacking embedded devices/consoles
>>require more experience and skills.

But warez groups and grey companies like Datel do reverse engineer consoles. Which is what I was arguing. Even if Sony had left the OtherOS feature in, allowed it complete access to the hardware, and ported it to the Slim someone would have come along with hacks anyway. Fair enough you guys aren’t doing it for piracy, but you really really can’t argue that piracy doesn’t happen on open platforms because it plainly does ask any Android developer.

>> _fast_ usually dont work in the wz scene.

So why did the PSJailbreak just pop up out of no where? It’s a warez enabler, nothing more, nothing less.. there’s nothing ethical about it.

Basically just tell that guy that inserts his “if we had access there would be no piracy slides” not to bother and everything is fine.

BTW I’m a former engineer for a game studio that got cut from a major publisher because piracy(with numbers to prove it) tanked our products. This was 8 years ago, and it didn’t even have a DRM to tempt scene teams..

@xorpunk

You can run a full-blown Ubuntu/Xubuntu on the PS3. Again, please stop spouting nonsense, especially if you’re too lazy to google it first.

I challenge you to find a single commit by me to any of the psgroove/psjailbreak/PL3/whatever github repos.

xorpunk,
I feel sorry for you man,
but u got to move on – take your skills and make a game for linux.
Why waste your energy ragging on people that did something for the world.
Dust yourself off and make a great game for linux – that would be something you could be proud of instead of the negativity/hate you are dumping here.

Peace Love Linux,xorpunk.

I’m pretty sure cantido’s trolling us. Let’s ignore him and see if he goes away.

@xorpunk: I’m sorry to hear that you were on a project which folded due to piracy. If you’ll listen more closely to what the presenters are saying, however, you will note that they didn’t say “Piracy isn’t going to happen on the PS3.” They didn’t say anything even remotely close to that.

What they said was “We aren’t trying to do this for the sake of piracy, but please recognize that piracy is an unfortunate side-effect of the work we are doing.”

Are their goals altruistic? Probably not. Are they as malevolent as you are making them out to be? No, they are not.

@xorpunk: either provide real proofs (that you won’t find anyway because marcan never worked for psgroove) or STFU. What you are doing is called defamation…
Or maybe you should learn how to read, because whatever you found, you apparently read it wrong.

I read the other day on the internet we have a vaccin for cancer, or was it 10y ago, heh, I can’t recall, but I read it, so it must be true…

Just use marcan tag on psgroove or search psgroove dev twitter entries:ex:mathieulh(google doesn’t crawl those..)

If you can’t do that then you have no merit to be calling people liars, because you can’t take the initiative to find out for yourself, and are only going by popular opinion..

**
BTW you guys do know that none of the tools they’ve published can be used for Linux..right? The only entry point is self signed PUP containing re-packed SELF binaries in core-os pkg, or other overflows, and that overwrites just enough that you either have to totally rewrite SCE FW, or distribute a lot of it with your patched or rewritten PUP->SELF..

Under what logic is what I’m saying the BS? >>What they published can be used for nothing BUT piracy..<<
**

“xorpunk: BTW I’m a former engineer for a game studio that got cut from a major publisher because piracy(with numbers to prove it) tanked our products. This was 8 years ago, and it didn’t even have a DRM to tempt scene teams..”

People doing copyright infringement with your game doesn’t mean you lost sales. Look at World of Goo they reported only 10% of people paid (search online for kotaku article) yet they came out ahead (the game studio.)

Also seeing first hand how a major publishers yank smaller game studios, I wouldn’t be surprised they had skewed numbers backing up X for making business decisions Y.

xorpunk “Spend at least 3 million USD developing and publishing an AAA game, and then watch it get distributed on the internet for free by at least 10k users, *THEN* enlighten us with your economical wizdom..”

Big budget commercial games (AAA) are way past multiples of 3 million. I get the impression you were working for a small game studio that got yanked around. Care to name the original AAA game you worked on?

@xorpunk

Well, aside from technical skills the “scene” did use to have lots of insiders. If you can get someone on the inside to get you dev materials you are halfway there.. and I’m pretty sure someone is going to leak those for money rather than some Richard Stallman-like belief in software freedoms. ;)

@Volfram

Sorry, was away doing other stuff… You just never seemed to grasp that OtherOS was insignificant. If it was a major thing more people would have tried to sue Sony. They didn’t. Even if OtherOS was still there devices like the PSJailbreak would have happened. And I really don’t blame Sony for not giving a shit about it.

Failoverflow seem to think that they were the only ones in the running for this hack, yet it all stems from what other people discovered i.e. the PSJailbreak which has nothing what so ever to do with “ethical hacking”.

@xorpunk

>>I could write a fuzzer and jump
>>on the bandwagon tomorrow if I wanted..

150% Agree with you. Sony’s protection survived for 4 years! How is that a “fail overflow” in today’s environment? If these guys had got all the public keys out of the console before it’s release and done it without the major leaps in progress made by others they would have right to be all smug about it.. but it took 4 years!

@cantido

Well, there just aren’t that many people living in Japan right now, are there? And the population is on a decline, too. I guess by your logic, there’s nothing wrong with using the Island Nation as a test site for biological and nuclear weapons. After all, what’s a couple million people? They’re insignificant compared to the 7 billion more that live elsewhere.

Sony chose to remove OtherOS partly as an example. It was a feature few(by their numbers, nevermind that the office building I work in is full, and it has fewer than 2000 workstations including the reserve machines) customers used, so complaints were likely to be insignificant.

It was an experiment. If they could get rid of OtherOS, they could get away with removing any feature they want from any product they make, retroactively. From a legal standpoint, they got away with it. When the Playstation 4 comes out, they’re going to remotely disable every single PS3 they can touch. If they catch a user watching un-approved Blue-Ray movies on one of their players, they’re going to remotely disable that player. If Sony decides they don’t like a particular movie studio, you will no longer be able to use Sony hardware to view movies made by that studio.

Thank you graf_chokolo for unlocking Linux on the Ps3!!! Not only unlocking it but accessing the hardware via the Hypervisor because you can reverse engineer!

Thank you for releasing a VRAM/FLASH/HDD Driver update with your kernel! I cant wait to turn on my Ps3 Slim or Phat to see all these penguins during startup!
http://i54.tinypic.com/20jrdqw.jpg

Who knew linux would come this fast full force to the ps3!!! best of all his kernel can be used with AsbestOS!!!! Double bonus!

Yay for having smart people who are able to program and reverse engineer (not make fail AAA games that get pirated after for a reason)

Hurry up RSX Driver.