i have no idea why sites focused around diy electronics have such aggressive comments – Hack a Day applicant
That is weird. What do you think? Comments go!
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So what if someone uses it for something simple that maybe a couple caps, a 555, and some resistors could have done
@skinner:
the hate isn’t for arduinos, we don’t hate them.
you are right, who cares if someone uses one where a couple of components would have sufficed.
My problem is that mundane daily uses for an arduino don’t deserve featured spots on a hacking blog. Especially more than half of all the coverage some weeks.
We don’t hate arduinos, we hate crappy coverage. I use a screwdriver daily too, and I don’t hate them. I just don’t think it deserves news coverage when i tighten a screw.
I think comments on hackaday seem more hostile because there’s no way to see capitalization.
I agree 100% that positive credit should be given where it is due…
but whats the point of commenting if there is no room for constructive/destructive criticism?
blowing smoke up everyone’s ass for every project they do would be counter productive.
Certainly its nice when people can say ‘hey, good work, nice hack,’ but without the voice of dissent, we will have nothing but leds glued into and onto every f’n thing posted as hacks. Knowing that if you submit crap, you will get a healthy dose of verbal smack, weeds out the crap, or at least holds the system at large to some sort of minimal standard.
this is an angry comment
@Stunmonkey (and others) – you’re saying “we” but that’s unfair to speak for everyone – it seems to me the most vocal snarky folks are also the ones that never have a project to show or share. that’s the unfortunate part, you won’t see anyone who has had many projects on hack-a-day and participates in the comments.
hack-a-day is the projects that are submitted, if you want to see great coverage, make stuff – or make hack-a-day a place where people who do make cool things want to share them.
a lot of makers, hackers and tinkerers i talk say they don’t like it when their projects are featured here because of the comments, go figure. these are amazing projects too, not just “arduino”.
like it or not, a lot of new people are learning electronics through arduino, eventually there will be something else that captures the attention of hundreds of thousands of people but for now this is a big one, hack-a-day is correct in supplying the demand for projects that use arduino – but i don’t think they’re they focus on it “more than half of all the coverage some weeks”…
any way, just some thoughts – i am curious what the site owners are going to do to improve the comments here.
Human nature.
This thread sucks
Not a lot we can do about it, sucks though, people think it is ok and acceptable to enjoy torturing others. Disgusting.
@pt: raises hand i have had a lot of projects on hackaday and also comment pretty frequently.
@pt
that’s an interesting insight, about censoring distructive comments to set a good tone that eventually sustains itself
however, i am in no favour of a rating system like that used in slashdot. i just find that distracting…it kinda turns the discussion into a mini popularity contest. who cares what the majority thinks? judge each comment for yourself based on its own merit. in this respect, i like hack-a-day for its aparent transparency.
so i dunno what if anything should be done about the distructive comments here…i just kinda roll my eyes and move on lol
and yes, those arduino things are neat but way overhyped
there’s, in my opinion, a pretty simple explanation: angry people are louder than satisfied people.
@macegr – i’m willing to bet you’re one of the few, if not the only one :)
@Emmanuel – i think “good commenters” could be given comment promotion privileges, just like gawker has – that’s the best system from what i have seen. the authors of the posts and likely 50 or so other people who have contributed in the comments. could work out.
it really doesn’t matter though, the comments on most sites are so bad most folks don’t even read them any longer.
The comments can be from angry people, from spammers, with best intentions or bad intentions but I don’t take much care about it because I decided what post is to my interest or not.
I suggest don’t put too much effort on fight with unknown people. Just read the good one and pass the bad one, like on the real life. :)
This feels like an evolution or rerun of ‘Alchemist’s vs Scientists’ from the rennaisance
Alchemists worked alone and took their knowledge to the grave, scientists (or their rough progenitors) published and communicated amongst themselves. Alchemists work was lost and repeated. scientists work was preserved and replicated.
Now, take a look at a crotchety old geek, watch them try to be social and fail.
Remember to talk to/engineer for non-geeks, if you don’t, your hard work is going to be buried under 100 overpowered arduino projects that will seem much more useful to the bulk of humanity than your uninspiring one, even if it does advance the state of the art.
Also, you will know you’re an alchemist.
To everyone: The arduino thing is just that Hackaday has an abundance of arduino-related posts so it’s kinda fun to post a comment like “This isn’t a hack, it doesn’t have any arduinos!”
late for the party.. i occasionally do stuff and a mention on hackaday is much more valuable to me than e.g. on makezine (why i even keep reading it). comments mean that someone actually noticed your stuff and found it worthy of 10 seconds of their life to write feedback: even if the latter says “omg this crap sucks”, that’s still cool. hackaday comments are the best comments out there!
Ever since hackaday started posting non-hacks people’s comments have become progressively uncivilised here to the point of youtube comment quality. Before then it was a little quite but civil. I think Hackaday has attracted Gizmodo morons.
Maybe a registration system is required but I feel that won’t a be a complete solution.
What about a rating system like Slashdot and Youtube have. Give registered users the ability to vote down the worthless comments, and report the offensive ones.
@james
Might as well have a hackaday subreddit in that case
james: systems like that don’t work because people think they should vote down something if they disagree with it.
i often time do not read the comments because of all the negativity and B.S egobation gong on (not just on this site but on the other 50 or so DIY sites i visit often). this is one of the few times that i did.. i have no criticism for Hack-A-Day i love this site i try to visit daily. you can give constructive criticism and encourage some one to improve. but saying some ones project sucks and that they suck will just make them leave… i also want to agree with the elitism A.B.S, and you will see it in all fields not just hackers.. its an ego-trip to help there low self esteem and to feel bigger than some one else….so to all the haters and flamers PISS OFF.long live the bus-pirate
@arduinonaut:
The worst offender in the useless arduino project category is the arduino mousetrap. It uses the microcontroller to simulate a length of wire. The mouse triggers the switch, triggering the arduino to send power to the motor and drop the door to the trap. If you think that’s defensible and that engineers who criticize such rubbish are elitists, then I’m fearful for the state of hacking. I believe that having to solve problems makes smarter hackers. Using an arduino is fine if you’re using it as a microcontroller. It’s a great microcontroller and I’m thrilled that it’s accessible and easy to use. I wish all the ones out there were as easy. I’ll probably end up buying a few at some point, though I still prefer the old standbys. The problem is that if you’re using it as a replacement for some other piece of hardware, especially some simple, cheap, and even more accessible hardware, that’s just plain lazy, and especially if you’re doing it because you’re just beginning, and find writing code simpler than circuits, then you’re staying in your comfort zone where you’re neither learning or being creative. When people come here wanting positive strokes for something that’s neither creative nor a learning experience, they’re not going to get them.
@cb
It takes a big man to point out another man’s typo and pretend that that invalidates his post. It takes a bigger man to decide not to come back with a similar insult, but rather to just let you know that you’re missing the point.
K.
I think there for I am. we all should think freely for we are free thinkers. I you can not accept a little of the negative then you have no right to the positive.
the friken snit i read lets me know people are alive. Just filter it and go on reading. You might get something out of it.
This is my first comment ever on a post and I have been on line for over 28 years. I feel real strongly about this. What your talking about is censorship. DIY is just the opposite.
That is has seen this sort of this in the bulletin board days. To try to filter it pout will mean you filter a lot of good things out. I have watching this happen to the internet since its conception. If get affected by rude comments the you are the one that has a problem.
Please let people be and not try to change that. Look in side and try to change how you respond.
“aggressive”? Compared to what, exactly?
There have been a lot of good, valid positive posts about the value of standards, critical review, etc. They have some very well thought out points on the state of hacking.
The other side of the coin seem to be people whining that not everyone thinks everything they do is wonderful and that makes them sad.
I suggest two sites. One for actual hackers, and the other one for those kids who all have to win a ribbon so nobody feels bad.
We could have hack-a-day, and a sister site called hack-a-daycare.
‘cuz you have to be a real man to mess with diy electronics
anger is a serious part of creativity
“so don’t piss me off today” (c) Gene Simmons
@ Stunmonkey
You sir are a genius. Hack-a-daycare indeed.
k
Part of why the ‘net is so valuable to me & several others is because etiquette goes out the window when anonymity’s the standard, so people just say what they think, with zero regard for hurt feelings. I appreciate the fact that nobody needs to censor their thoughts. The only people who get hurt are those who don’t have enough self-esteem to operate without everyone telling them how wonderful they are.
It ain’t broke, and it doesn’t need fixing.
It’s not reasonable to expect people to be nice all the time – ‘real life’ isn’t like that either.
The huge majority of commenters have got something useful to say, be it constructive criticism or maybe a suggestion to take the idea a step further.
The few ‘habitual haters’ who have nothing to offer but a wave of their undersized willy are well known, and their comments are generally treated with the contempt they deserve.
I always enjoy seeing other people’s projects, whether they’re full of win or crocks of crap – there’s something useful to learn from both sorts, and surely one of the main functions of hack-a-day is to do exactly that… to learn from other people’s triumphs ‘and’ disasters.
the ratings systems on comments i’ve seen on other sites actually do a pretty good of filtering out shit comments. an implementation on hack-a-day would be welcome.
I’m glad that this topic has come up when it did. I’ve been uncomfortable with the nasty, unhelpful tone of some posts, and I regret that they may drive some creative individuals to not read Hack-A-Day or, worse yet, to not share their own creative output with us readers.
For the last few days I’ve been mulling over ways to improve the tone of posts (yes, improved ‘my way’). I’ve been thinking of a voting system that would get rid of the really nasty, hateful stuff. Maybe five votes against a post could get it reviewed for deletion, or returned to the original poster for ‘rephrasing’. Problems: 1. Hackaday probably doesn’t have the resources to add a ‘moderator’ function to review posts. 2. As mentioned by another poster, this could lead to some valuable viewpoints being deleted (although I personally doubt it).
Before I read all these viewpoints, I had hoped that maybe inappropriate comments could be referred back to the poster so that, if they really wanted to see themselves in print, they would try to write something acceptable. But I now don’t think that would work.
I see from the responses that there are two kinds of personalities here: thick-skinned individuals who consider the flameage a good thing, an entertaining thing, who can’t be hurt by it, aren’t offended by it… and the other kind, people like me who consider it a bad thing, a reason to consider no longer reading hackaday, who *are* offended, or hurt, by it.
Apparently the posters who hail from that first group can’t differentiate between hateful, harmful, destructive criticism and constructive criticism. I say that after reading several of them defending (to my considerable surprise) the rightness of that kind of posting.
@pt: Thank you for your work to make forums a less-negative experience.
You know what you get if you let wild-eyed optimism run free? Wired magazine.
If you really want this site to stall troll free, but open, the only proven method is obscurity; Trolls seek the eye traffic of larger targets, so pass on small obscure communities; HAD cannot be compared to the likes of slashdot by this measure.
So keep the articles on topic (don’t drift into mainstream topics) away from topics friendly to the uninitiated (free use of jargon, electrical concepts – if someone wants in bad enough, they’ll initiate themselves with the required knowledge) and we’ll all be merry and bright :->
I saw an article about this on JSTOR a few years back. They analyzed blogs, forums, and the like looking for common trends in social roles. I think they found that people self-organize into common roles based on intent and/or access.
Presumably, people reach conclusions before they post things. Strictly speaking, legitimate discussion is rare because this promotes an environment of advocates, puerile or not. Online interaction is fascinating.
Here is why plain and simple. people leave bad comments and are hyper aggressive for one reason and one reason only. Because they can. Same with diy sites. people do diy projects because they can. human nature is all about doing things because we can. Ive done my fair share of internet assholery, as im sure everyone else commenting has (no need to be two faced on the internet) fact of the matter is if you dont like the comment, life goes on and so should you. just ignore it, say somting constructive and move on. People arent internet assholes because they get picked on irl. heck, ive done it out of nothing but pure boredom. there is no real motive, it just happens.
totally not a hack.
Hacks are done for their own sake, solely for your own enlightenment. Share them online and let people take from them what they will.
If what others take away be a good concept they can use, great, if it be for some stupid ego trip by bashing it, oh well. Sucks but that’s life.
Hacks are done for their own sake. If you are actually building them in an attempt to get some form of validation from total strangers on the internet, you are looking in the wrong place and have deeper issues.
I agree the negative posting is destructive, and yes I can indeed determine the difference between constructive criticism and idiot ego bashing.
It actually seems the “everybody gets an a+” crowd are the ones who can’t tell the difference. They tend to class pretty much anyone as ‘trolls’ who don’t like something, constructively or not.
Let people post, delete the truly absolutely juvenile worst of them, and let the rest fly.
We have all been given 100% free speech, unmediated comments, by hackaday. No B.S from Hackaday. I got to admit that at least I have seen some seriously stupid, racist, not to mention irrelevant crap occupying and wasting a possibly useful discussion. As far as I care Comments and discussion are for learning purposes, especially debate. Keep it civil, to the point, and not-personal and people will learn more stuff from comments. 100% free speech! FUCKI’N Enjoy it! Wit Responsibelesityies!, of course.
I think, in general, that the internet jerkwad theory holds.
Here’s a possibility though, in 3 parts:
Part one: articles are tagged… so why not put a general skill and knowledge level to them. Articles could be tagged for arduino, home automation, etc… with a particular skill level needed for the hack or project.
Part two: have a user system that’ll allow people to filter articles based on skill level and tags.
Part three: have staff moderate comments. Seriously: moderate. Rude comments are detrimental to the nature of sites like this, which thrive of people sharing knowledge. Folks come to Hackaday to see what other people are doing, to gain inspiration, to gain knowledge. There’s no impetus to share when folks shit on your work, regardless of the audience you intended it for originally.
And seriously, can you please put proper capitalization into articles and comments? Removing capitalization pulls more context out of comments.
PS I love this site.
It is sad that moderation is the only possible solution. Responsibility for one’s writing is just too much for some people.
To: Scabby we need capitalization big time man, I capitalize appropriately by habit and it drives me nuts here but I can’t stop it! Takes away from conversation and makes it somewhat more ambiguous.
P.s. I said “to: scabby” cuz @ scabby sounds like I threw a rock at you or something (ow!). Rather than saying something to you.
fuck you you fucking assholes!!!
(just trying to fit it… no harrd feelings)
-shyft
Looking at this whole thread, good, bad, and ugly, there isn’t much here to be bothered about. at all.
If you can’t stand what mild stuff is on here, you can’t really stand going outside either.
For those people counseling, not site moderation, might be a better option.
7H12 p0s7 SuX! m0re leDz!! 3y3M s3W l337!
(Seriously, I love this site! Great job guys!)
@Khordas
yeah that mousetrap…
“The problem is that if you’re using it as a replacement for some other piece of hardware, especially some simple, cheap, and even more accessible hardware, that’s just plain lazy, and especially if you’re doing it because you’re just beginning, and find writing code simpler than circuits, then you’re staying in your comfort zone where you’re neither learning or being creative.”
agreed.
I’m noting the volume of comments to this post vs the post that was originally linked. Also, I think these comments are much worse.
I’m a frustrated individual. I’m surrounded by people that can’t do anything creative for themselves, don’t want any responsibility, and then complain when they have to hire a specialist to fix their stuff (car, house, etc). I can’t seem to explain to these people that they really can fix their own stuff, save money, and enrich their lifelong learning experience. They just don’t understand me.
When you have an attitude like that, it can be very hard at times to be constructive online. I actually really like hack-a-day because if I write up and post a project, the people that really do understand might at least read and appreciate what was done. In the real world, I don’t think that will ever happen…
I don’t even read the comments.
Except for now. Amidoinitwrong?
my response to those complainers of the following types:
1. old news – sorry, but I don’t follow other sites. i *only* check h.a.d. regularly, so it’s my only source of info, and therefore the news is not old to me (unless it’s a repost)
2. i can do better than that – that’s nice. then post something genius and show us. otherwise shut up.
3. personal attack – i think you’re a jerk. i’m guessing most others do also. but that’s probably the response you want
4. h.a.d. attacks – they control the content. it’s their site. if you want them to change, provide some constructive comments. on the other hand, if they want to start posting cookie recipes every other day, that’s their choice. tell them you don’t like it then shut up.
My company will like to hire some of you guys. We are looking for a serious out of the box thinker like Matt, and others. Software guy and code genius.
Love what you all do here. This is where Talent meet the real World.
Any interesting candidate, please contact my email address tovotechjobs@gmail.com