We received a very interesting “hack” today from our good friend [Jonny Dryer] that really got us thinking, but first a little background.
For those that live only inside of a box on top of a mountain (we know who you are), there was an explosion of a British Petroleum oil rig about 40 miles southeast of Venice, LA. Being proclaimed by Carol Browner as “probably the biggest environmental disaster” – stated a month after the accident.
And the oil is still spewing. Now, we’re not ones for criticizing how this event is being handled; no, we left it to the experts.
Back to our point, [Jonny Dryer’s] sent us his plan for slowing the oil spill, by using liquid nitrogen, pretty genius if you ask us. And we were wondering what possible solutions other readers had come up with? Share your thoughts on this situation in the comments.
oh and otherwise of course i forgot to mention this since usually i always mention this but one cannot mention this enough right.
it is my sincere hope that this will wake up poeple everywhere to what is goin on. to what we are doing to nature aswell as ourselfs.
over a hundred years back i believ nikola tesla said it who said: the oil industry is barbarous and will ahve to be stopped in the interest of coming generations.
insted of using mud, why dont they try a porous material like ground chalk mixed with limestone & bicarbonate of soda, my idea is that it will expand and plug the hole… as for the oil in the water, why not use water fracturing, eg microwave repulsion, you could do this at source the oil would fall to the bottom…. the high pressures are the biggest problem … a retro fitted dive bell made from polycarbonate you could have any size …..
@xorpunk: This site is not your personal soapbox.
@dextermash: s’mot really nud. think realy heavy cement…
Ever heard of the “corporate death penalty” it has been done before. And now corporations are officially “people” they should be able to face the consequences of their actions without just a little fine and a golden handshake for the CEO
today is 06/07/2010. To date the activity at the sea floor has been done to minimize the impact of the blow out, until the well can be intercepted by new bore, and kill and plugging techniques known to work( from experience) can be employed. Only the “junk shot” was the only thing tried that had a chance of allowing the well to be plugged, and any confidence it that was downplayed, understandably so. Only in the event of a failure of the intercept bore killing, plugging job will other unconventional idea be entertained.
Pressures at the wellhead have to be considered before building an artificial island over the wellhead. Think about it, the weight of a mile of salt water isn’t stopping the flow, what chance does porous permeable fill have? The video about the under ground nuclear explosion was interesting. However anyone who doesn’t have access to the well’s log data for the blown out well in the GoM can’t judge if such a technique would have a chance. Any idea of detonating a nuke at the well head is ill advised. That chances of damaging the surface casing that the BOP and other equipment that allows access to the well bore are too great. That string of casing is the last line of defense at to top of the well bore
@charlieinjax only $26? Most likely it would cost more that that the recover the oil, and treat it to where the pipelines will buy it. Even at the current market price it may no be profitable effort
@Rhys The junk shot was intend to plug up the BOP, to reduce the amount of oil escaping, not plug the well.
@MrG BP is greenwashing the fact they are a part of big oil. Now they deny their Beyond Petroleum campaign.
@Robin if it where possible to unbolt one thing, and bolt something else in it’s place, they would have placed a spear with a shut off gate/valve into the pipe after they made the smooth cut. Most likely the pressure is making attaching anything impossible. I don’t know if you are in the industry or not, but if you are you understand using hot(fast dry/cure) cement bring along it’s own set of possible risks AKA failures. BTW, for those outside the industry concrete is not used to plugs wells, the cement is just that similar to the Portland cement you buy in the bags to mix your own concrete at home
At least one other person understands this is not going to mean the end of BP. They still are making fistfuls of money daily, and will enjoy limited liability for actual damages to the lively hoods of others.
Even though I feel I have decent grasp what the industry is facing here, I don’t I don’t have solution to tender. Because of that grasp, I can see what suggestion may not hold oil. Like it or not there’s it not much to do to see if the “relief wells” can kill the flow, and permanent plug the well. In the event tried and trued method fails, other off the wall suggestions will be considered. Just don’t forget the tried and trued was begun early on, and all this other work was to try to minimize the flow in the meantime. I’m saying tried and trued because these methods have been used to kill blowouts,and plug wells for a long time. Though my heart still pumps crude oil, I’m no apologist for the petroleum industry.
@the_guy when you made your accusation of 0% progress, BP because of their last effort recovered oil that otherwise would have leaked into the GoM. Not a lot compared the amount that has already enter the water. In the event the recovery rate can be continued, less oil will enter the water by the time the “relief wells” prove successful or unsuccessful. Mother Nature in the form of the hurricane season will be in control here. I’m listening to the 6/7/10 briefing, LOL Kent Wells is having a hard time in changing from oil production jargon and PC news conference speak. While he caught himself once he keeps calling the PC term recovery production.
Its good to see some educated posts in here as well as some wild ideas.
The original idea of liquid nitrogen apart from thermally not being able to do the job would cause other issues such as increasing the build up of methane hydrate which would cause more instability and could block the pipes used for relief from this well. Infact BP will be pumping warm water into the cup to try to reduce this (cold, water and pressure arround the gas cause the build up) i would emagine.
the junk shot has been talked about, but I think its always been skirted arround on official press that I have seen, so I assume they have decided not to do it in case it makes the bop worse, especially with the upcoming criminal investigation bp might want that un-touched to try and offset alot of the flack to cameron and haliburton who atm are not taking a kicking in the press but no doubt have their hands dirty in all this. It would be good to know more about if they really did it, or have decided against it.
There are obviuosly some oil people reading this, does anyone know why bp want the relief well to intercept just above the resovoiur, I know this would be ideal, but as time and public opinion is not on their side, why not go for the jugular alot higher with the first well and then sort out best preactice sealing afterwards?
Long large pipe that is long enough to reach the surface that is smaller diameter than the leaking pipe. This will be a relief pipe. Take a equivalent of a bicycle tire (with both ends sealed so it is like a snake). Coil this inter-tube around the relief pipe, stick it down the leaking pipe inflate it and bada boom bada bing, oil takes the path of least resistance and flows up the relief pipe. Problem solved?
Several thoughts.
First a nuke blast would work, and as for fallout, just look to the west of San Diego when back in the early days they detonated a underwater nuke to evaluate the effects on subs, no long lasting effects. As well as the Russians having used that technology several times to success.
Second, using what they currently have down there, they need larger capacity pumps. Simple math/physics, you have to pump more volume then you have escaping.
Third, you can go down with manned submersibles.
Titanic is at 12,400 feet, and manned subs have been going there for over a decade. Send a manned sub down (they are larger) and use the hydraulic shear idea. Not rocket science.
As for the blame game, save that for later, while we are cleaning up the mess.
I also love the estimates of the flow, seems they have been stating that the flow was “only” 5K barrels/day, but they claimed to have recovered 11K in one day and it still blowing out like there’s no tomorrow.
I would say to get BP together with the government and Universities professors and professionals to get to a solution and charge the cost of all to BP so they learn their lesson.
@axllaruse: They already done that. They literally got the ‘best of the best’ in relevant fields, and the “solution” that is still leaking oil is what they came up with.
I’m also glad to see more educated comments, but remember it doesn’t actually mean anything unless you let it be known where it counts..BP doesn’t browse hackaday.
Didn’t BP have trouble with methane ice crystals from seawater v. oil blocking the flow of their first try to pump the oil? Wouldn’t seawater pumped into the well form methane crystals and block the well? Hello…is this thing on?
@xorpunk
I am guessing you are about 19 years old based on your rantings.
Seriously? It’s simple in the abstract? All you need is a “magical substance” described as
“A liquid fusion that can handle a big temperature spectrum, has good tensile strength, and bonds to the solids there including metals under the given environment, without rapid-erosion.”
This sounds like the kind of stuff I used to dream up when I was a 12 year old engineer wanna be, and genuinely believed I was smarter than everyone else.
Well! Somebody fly this man to the BP headquarters! He has cracked the case! Step aside you engineers which have been drilling wells subsea for 3 decades, this kid that just lost his virginity last year, and has yet to work a real engineering job, has figured it all out, without all the fancy book learning and real world experience you “old engineer job jockeys” value so highly.
Oh and don’t you americans forget that every single one of the world’s ails is rooted in your cushy suburban lifestyle and irrational fear of terrorists. Why can’t you just go live in an un-airconditioned concrete shoebox and be happy to ride your bicycle in the rain to get to work? Profit is evil!
The fine folks over at Rex Research seem to believe that utilizing several of Tesla’s famous earthquake machines or mechanical oscillators strategically placed would resonate the oil into a containment field of sorts…. I don’t really understand it in fullness but maybe some of you would…
It’s on the main site now…
http://www.rexresearch.com/1index.htm
I think the problem is that the “brilliant minds” of the world, BP and our givernment that are attempting to fix the gulf oil spill are just a little too brilliant. When watching the news yesterday I just heard the sorriest excuse as to why “brilliant minds” are unable to use hay (which has proven been proven effective at soakng up oil)…. our “brilliant minds” stated they’d ‘have nothing to do with the hay and it would just create a bigger mess’. WHAT?! What’s better… dying fish and birds, polluted waters, disperant contaminants and fumes in the gulf region (possibly further)or a big load of greasy hay? What to do with it? Burn it?( thats what we do in our cars anyway.. thats what was going to happen to the oil eventually)or ever hear of a landfill? Oh, perhaps hey are worreid about soil pollution…. Well, what do they think happens woth every bit of oil thta washes upon the shores of the gulf states. The difference is when the oil washes upon the shores it poulltues in critical wildlife and commerce areas. Hay was a good idea… as are pleanty of other ideas the “brilliant minds” have dismissed. Perhaps our intelligencia isn’t so intelligent anymore. Perhaps, we should start turning to well-rounded, commomsense individuals to solve our problems.. rather than highly-specialized thinkers who are unable to see past their own thoughts and machinations.
@Monica Commonsense I truly think you have point there! From my experience, I worked with so many fols with Ph.D.’s over the years, and some of them lacked common sense. In fact, I was appalled at some of the outrageously complicated (and very costly) proposals! Just keep it simple!
All we need is a large diameter flow tube to bring the contaminants to manageable depth! DUH!
Of course, not one of those know-it-all so-called engineers would listen there until one billion gallons have dispersed.
I guess there’s such a thing as overeducated and/or excessive arrogance.
At least an actor like Kevin Costner is trying to help and make bucks (more than likely made it already!) http://www.ots.org/ Good for him!
@Tim
I had the same idea after their last attempt to plug the well failed.
We might have to resort to a nuke to shut that well down.
Though an alternative I came up with would be to build a massive caisson and lower it over the entire anti blow out device.
Next pump out the water and hope the sea pressure will drive the footings into the sea floor far enough to seal the well.
Issues it could leak and it would take time to build such a structure.
ALL materials and processes are readily available within a few hours to keep this oil spill under control.
I truly believe people in general are over-analyzing this situation and getting paralyzed what to do next.
Hope we get it done soon!
“Cajun food is spicy enough and we don’t need it oily!”
Any thoughts on whether we could insert an expanding tube into it, which could be lowered down and be aimed into the pipe itself. Since it’s a tube, and the pipe being inserted into it is smaller that the diameter of the pipe that is pumping oil, it wont receive as much resistance if it had a bullet shaped tip, and as it got down in far enough it would be abruptly pressurized causing it to expand like a balloon into tube, and have the depth that the inflated pipe is inserted in be deep enough to produce enough friction against the walls to be able to sustain itself against the oil pressure long enough to be able to put a more stable cap on it. I thought of this while I was thinking about the way doctors put shunts into peoples arteries if the have an occlusion, and it is done by putting the shunt in around a tube, inflating the tube to make it the right diameter, then deflating and removing the tube with the shunt still in it.
OR
The pipe is inserted which expands and cuts off the pressure, and a cap is somehow attached to the top part above the expanded part of the shunt and stabilized in place with a close-able valve on it just bigger than the expanding tube that was placed in there to occlude the flow of petroleum while they put the new cap on. You remove the little pipe that had the inflatable stopper on it, and as the tube is removed, then the valve is closed to stop the flow of oil.
I’ve been thinking about this for a week or two now, but I don’t know of any issues it wouldnt be able to overcome. If the balloon created was long enough to provide enough friction against the lumen of the pipe to stop the oil, even if its just for a short period of time, it would be able to reduce the pressure coming out to allow them to secure the new cap.
Maybe just have a part of the inflating tube have a pipe to let off some of the pressure that the balloon is trying to occlude so the expanded are keeping the flow of oil away from the opening long enough for a close-able valve to be applied and secured?
I’m just rambling now. Lets let the debating start.
Good idea with possible modifications to allow for it to be successful?
Check out the numbers.
Over 550,000,000 litres so far in the gulf
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/disasters/how-many-litres-and-gallons-in-a-barrel-how-much-actual-oil-is-pouring-into-the-gulf-of-mexico
and the gulf stream is going to carry it straight to the Florida keys :-(
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/renting-and-real-estate/will-the-gulf-oil-spill-reach-fort-lauderdale-florida
xorpunk- Clearly, all you did was google some keywords, not read the full text of the patent, and post anyways.. because that patent is made for lubricating oils in machinery within nuclear power plants.
Jerk.
xorpunk- In re to your claim that oil is radioactive.. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4615794.html Clearly, all you did was google some keywords, not read the full text of the patent, and then posted it anyways.. because that patent is made for lubricating oils in machinery within nuclear power plants.
Jerk..
here’s a wild idea:
how about we stop using so much oil?
surely you’re joking, mr octel!
I’ve been wondering, what’s stopping them from drilling a small hole in the side of the pipe below the rupture, inserting a bladder of some sort and “inflating” it with sea water until it closes off the pipe?
Because it’s too cold down there and very deep- the pressure and icy temperatures won’t allow it.
I predict that this will end up in the oil well down there being depleted, with clean up efforts lasting 20-30 years.. There is no “simple” way to fix this.
@Simplifier – plans have been submitted to nearly identical to what you have proposed. It is currently being subjected to a technical review committee. The large plastic tube is extremely resilient to erosion but checking on the temperature.
@EarthlyGoddess – they are currently evaluating alternative materials for the extreme cold temperatures. Pressure will not be an issue since it is an open ended oversized diameter flow tube.
Hopefully, this straight-forward approach is not to cap the Blow Out Prevention (BOP) valve but to redirect the oil to a manageable depth. The materials are readily available we just need an elite team to deploy.
1. Kid psychics
2. Pet psychics
3. National day of prayer
4. Everyone focus your anger on the source of the leak in exactly 15 minutes.
5. Hijack a passenger plane and fly that into it.
6. Send octel and xorpunk down there with some duct tape and don’t let them come back until its fixed.
@turbodude
“elite team”
this isn’t the movies, buddy
@Ideas_Man
You sound angry. Are you an SUV-driving Republican?
Why not a special net made so that when tightened it works like a woven basket that will essentially cap off the flow?
@octel
I just threw that in there for a “little” excitement!
haha
However, the movies are closer to reality than some people think!
That’s an idea, Codegeek! Really, why not bring some kind of clay or putty down there, and just mash a big ball of it down into the hole? It could potentially be heated before putting it down the hole, so that it doesn’t freeze going down, which would make the masher’s job easier too!! LOL!!
Or, maybe just drop a giant rock on top, with the bottom of the rock covered in a waterproof adhesive, and the top of the rock painted with a portrayal of the crucifixion as well?? Because I hate to be the only cynic here, but I think that this leak is going to take an epic miracle to fix..
SET CHARGES AROUND THE PIPE AND BLOW THEM, CRUSHING THE PIPE IN THE CENTER, IT WILL SLOW and possibly even STOP THE FLOW.
Don’t need to worry about fire, not enough oxygen, and best stop it as soon as possible. We can deal with the above amount in flames if it were to get that bad.
STOP THE FLOW FIRST.
What could be an option, is dropping a giant ‘skirt’ around the leak, weighted at the bottom and held at the top by ships. It would require a massive amount of fabric though, and it would have to be made impermiable to the oils. It would funnel most (hopefully) of the oil up to the surface where it could be siphoned off and taken somewhere else.
well here we are, a bit later, and my captain and i are making some progress, 4 days ago we arrived in hopedale, LA, hoping that we could finally get our VOO charter contract straightened out. well maybe we should have looked more intop it, when we got here we ‘drove’ the boat up and down the bayou trying to find out who was in charge, and who knew at the least what we needed to do to talk to someone. well after wasting a day and a half, we we’re told on no uncertain terms to “leave my bayou, and dont stop till you get back were you came from” by a local wildlife and fisheries enforcer. there seems to be a lot of people in charge and nobody seems to know anything. over the next few days, thisone told us to go here, then we were told no, you gotta go there, and so on. finally when things seem to be going ok, and we had a contract in our hands, they say, oh, you gotta goto this doctor, and get a physical, and a drug test. well we drive 40 miles into town (st. bernard parish…) and get to the doctors office where we see signs plastered all over the place saying they no longer offer physicals or drug tests for bp workers. the pay rate is as follows, $3000 for the boat owner, $200 per crew member per day. well there have been people that singed on a month ago, and are being paid, and have yet to do anything, havent even untied from the docks, and here we are running around like rats in a maze and missing out on just under $100,000 a month.
what the hells going on with this? and now im hearing they’re filing for bankrupcy? this has destroyed my livlyhood, and you know what i get for it? a partial settlment check for $2500, well now thier saying thats going to be audited down to $500 or so a month. i was making close to $1500 a week before this happened. whats being done to fix it?
seems to me thier trying to back out of responsibility, and they need to be stopped…
@the_guy
That sounds “fishy” if you know what I mean?
Sounds like a BIG conspiracy all over again!
LOL
BP is a multinational company and no longer goes by the name British Petroleum. In fact, it says a lot about Presedent Obama for using this term, with comments like “kick ass” from a presedent is unheard of among the west, especially when the Rig didn’t even belong to BP.
Regardless whether BP owns the oil rig or not, they were given claim rights to property. So whatever happens in there, it’s BP’s fault no matter what.
I think BP should change their name to BPH.
of course everyone here knows the difficulty working at those depths, tools that are required. submersibles etc. maybe working at those depths and the current engineering needs to be questioned? luckily there is a solution.
The studies and research from the doozer engineering facility at mit, has found that the fragle rock doozer stick technology can be utilized for just such applications. The sticks commonly known for there sweet taste by the fragles has proved to show interesting property’s and working closely with our scientists has taken our understanding to a whole new threshold. it has been shown that common household garbage in combination with the doozer ingenuous ingredient provides just the material to use at such depths. the gunge ‘as called by the doozers’ a sticky substance that has all the property’s of builders foam but the ability to stick at pressure and underwater .The doozers a close relative the smurfs and wombles, clearly have superior knowledge and experience in subterranean exploration and I for one am glad for there assistance. also with a little help from aqua-man in the manoeuvring of the giant spray-can of gunge , placing the pipe nossle down the well and releasing the gunge all could be well .. but its just a suggestion!!!
The problem is not plugging the hole. That’s the easy part.
Think of it this way:
Take a balloon, fill it with water and add some red dye to it. Now get a straw. Hold the balloon underneath the surface of a bathtub full of water, and stab the straw through the top of the balloon. All is fine and dandy, the balloon is now draining at a fixed rate thanks to the surface tension, and avoiding the rips and tears near where you stabbed the straw through thanks to some fluid dynamics math that is above my head. Now plug the straw, what happens? That surface tension being placed on the balloon now stretches and the red dye comes out anyways, right at the source.
Where’s your plugged pipe dream now?
Leaking all over the ocean floor of course.
The best response that I see to this situation is to transplant a large group of the bacteria that feed on the natural oil leaks in the gulf, and a whole lot of luck. Otherwise all we are doing is plugging a straw in the balloon.
CALLING BULLSHIT.
This post is just a shitty ploy to cause a shitty debate.
Everyone go out and enjoy the nice weather, go to the beach or something.
there was a post about using the stub of the old BOP to try and make a workable solution…. what about using any stub of that kind drop a pipe capable of holding the pressure over it seal it at the bottom to whatever you can (no more undersea cloud). pipe it up to surface and regulate pressure there… use tankers for a bucket brigade until a non band-aid solution could be achieved?
srry bout the double
I know that sounds like rebuild the rig but if you assembled your pipe sections on site (undersea welding by robots?) it would be a replacement straw fo the oil to flow through so it at that point to use an old term woud be a gusher cap your pressurized replacement pipe at the surface
I think a solution to working at those depths may exist at NASA in the form of robonaut but it’s rated for outer space not the deep ocean.
This is not a solution for this mishap due to the engineering lead time but a deep sea version of robonaut should be developed to prevent future accidents.
For this accident a steel caisson with drivable footings could be employed.
It will have to be pumped out to keep it’s pressure lower then the surrounding ocean but it’ll buy time for relief wells to be drilled.
After the relief wells are dug and the main well is plugged the caisson can then be filled with concrete.
The pumping platform could then be moved to one of the relief wells as a permanent replacement for the destroyed rig.
Not the first screwup for BP. Lest we forget Texas city in 2005:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Refinery_%28BP%29
How many more times will they get away with these failures?
The brits should just let Doctor Who figure it out!
It seems like there is finally some good news with the spill. The Houston Chronicle reports, U.S. ships were being outfitted earlier this month with four pairs of skimming booms airlifted from the Netherlands and should be deployed within days.” Finally a good sign. For all those feeling pretty gloomy about this situation, I recommend a good laugh… Here’s a funny joke, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd0svVWfFbo
“We can sit here and talk about our own ideas, but the fact of the matter is that they have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on it. This is the bottom of the ocean folks! Things are different down there. And this is no water well either…”
I don’t know if this was suggested already, since I don’t have time to read the whole thread, but what about using the BOP to shut it off. The compressing rams on it have to be contained in something, so if a hole were to be cut in that… once the water evened out it would take around 5000 psi to compress the pipe completely. A pipe could then be attached to the BOP in case any crude was still leaking, and that would hold until the relief wells were drilled. It wouldn’t close instantly, so it would be safer than just ramming it shut. Also, once the oil is shut off at the BOP, a hole could be cut into the pipe with another pipe leading off of it so the BOP wouldn’t shoot off. The oil could then be collected at the surface and stores, or another rig could be built on top of that pipe to collect oil as normal.
If this won’t work, don’t troll or anything, just tell me.