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i have no idea why sites focused around diy electronics have such aggressive comments – Hack a Day applicant
That is weird. What do you think? Comments go!
What a shitty post.
Well maybe if you took time to do some freaking research you might figure that one out.
First post is prime example.
comment wars between fanboys of one thing or another, or butthurt guys who don’t know what they are talking about and get flamed are not uncommon to any website. Hackaday is no different.
I agree, absolute rubbish. You would think these people could find something better to do with their time, like post DIY articles.
Because guys that like electronics, in general, aren’t people persons.
It’s not just diy electronics sites, it’s everywhere online. Online culture has become this way. Immature people (by age or mentality) plus anonymity equals hateful writing. The only way to combat this is administration on the forums or messageboards. Make the comments require registration to post and ban people who abuse it. Eventually it will get better.
You could say “Just don’t feed the trolls!” but that doesn’t work unless everyeone’s on board. And besides, trolls feed trolls.
I don’t like having to register at sites, but unfortunatly it’s the only solution that I see.
I find that many confuse complexity with a good hack. Sometimes duct tape and cardboard *really are* the best solution. It doesn’t matter if you could have done it with a cnc machine and your custom AI control software.
eh i think it more has to with anonymous commenting. if you turned it off and required a registration then the haters would be too lazy to post.
Perhaps an arduio-based solution?
OW ow ow ow owstophitting me I’m kidding!
@john So true. anonymity brings out the worst in people, it’s usually one of the cited reasons for road rage, for example.
I think the haters are like many other diy people, set in their ways. Just because you do it one way dosnt mean there isnt another way. Another thing is, people are cheap. this crowd here tends to come here, not only for cool stuff, but for a cheaper way of going about that they want but dont want to spend money on. I would agree, “Sometimes duct tape and cardboard *really are* the best solution.” I would also agree, ” Immature people (by age or mentality) plus anonymity equals hateful writing.” But, this is also true, “Because guys that like electronics, in general, aren’t people persons.” Just my two cents.
Not fir for hackaday.
I believe I could do better.
They are looking for hackers!
which I am!!
what was that about not being able to please all of the people all of the time? :D
aggressive comments are everywhere on the internet. i would think most people have learnt to filter them out by now :) id just ignore them, your doing fine here at HAD!
I agree with others in these comments, there are a lot of ignorant people who shouldnt be allowed near a keyboard. But to answer the challenge of this post, I think that the comments on diy posts are so aggressive because it is DIY, people are making stuff to do what they want/need it to do. Maybe they arent always clear as to what that is, but if they are happy with it, great for them, and why cant we all just appreciate the ingenuity of fellow DIY-ers
I that whoever wrote thats guts. I’m aggressive because I have no frontal lobe, kiss my a$$.
@hpux “anonymity brings out the worst in people”
what? have you seen the 4chan /b section? come on, thats quality, admit it.
i think that a lot of people who have been belittled, ignored and verbally abused in real life find the internet a good place to exact their revenge upon the world. these kind of people are overrepresented on electronics websites because many people who are interested in electronics have been victimised for being nerds.
sad fact. but think about it next time you blisteringly berate someone for ‘not being intelligent enough’.
Greater internet dickwad theory: Normal person plus anonymity plus audience equals total dickwad. That and one two many arduino projects by hackers who don’t have clue #1 about what a microcontroller can do.
why so much dislike for aggression? it’s fun to be hateful, and hateful comments are entertaining; grow some fucking balls.
Here’s my 2cent rant:
I enjoy the articles, I don’t enjoy the posts. I’ve started my own little “point making” exercise, highlighting all of the folks who ruin the spirit of the blog by either
a) flaming the original post for not being “up to snuff” for [insert reason here]
b) engaging in the sad one-upsmanship that is so common on the net – slinging one’s epeen out on the table and trying to outdo the “other guy”
There are places for that on the net. This should not be one of them. Go to Slashdot if you feel like you have to TRY to reduce someone’s genuine attempt into nothing just to make yourself feel better.
Teacher’s dont do that. If you want to teach a lesson about doing something better, then do it in the spirit of constructive criticism.
Who gives a fuck how many arduinos are used. If it gets someone thinking about doing something they’ve never done before, its a win.
It boils down to the asshats who just can’t contain themselves and get their balls all swollen making others feel inferior.
Keep hacking and keep the posts coming. The jerkstores who think this site isnt for n00bs can go fly a kite in a thunderstorm.
If indeed it is the case that DIY sites have particularly aggressive posts, I think it likely a side effect of the personality type that is drawn to DIY and hacking in the first place. It is, by default, a place populated mainly by people who have proven tendency towards individualism, lateral thought and strong personality. How many of us have a t-shirt that says “doesn’t play well with others”?
I’ve noticed there’s three main categories of negative comment on these types of sites.
1. “This is old.” or “Repost.” Typically generates disdain for the person who posted the article, usually proportional to the wide-eyed enthusiasm for the project, also proportional to the age of the project. The negativity is rooted in the feeling that the person posting on a website should be at least as familiar with the culture as the readers.
2. “This project sucks.” I’d say that, in most cases, you see this type of comment when the project actually does suck. I remember seeing a lengthy howto (not here) on a “free battery holder” which consisted of taping them together. Duct tape and cardboard is cool if it’s used creatively to solve some actual problem, or displays some skill. Projects that consist of an LED and a battery used in a non-creative way are pretty boring.
3. “You suck.” A direct attack on the person who posted the article, sometimes not related to the project at all. A lot of spelling errors, or making some comment about the project that is either blindingly obvious, over-enthusiastic, exhibits ignorance, or tries to tie the project to something totally unrelated. Basically anything that gives the impression that the poster is “not one of us” or “is too lazy to research” or “can’t even spell correctly.”
There is a lot of over-reactive negativity in comments, but a lot of it does have a valid cause. Authors can reduce it by getting more in touch with the audience and paying a little more attention to what they write. Don’t ignore what someone is saying when they are being negative…they might be right. It’s the audience telling you what they want to see, if you ignore that, they’ll just leave.
Hack a Day is mild compared to political sites.
Registration won’t stop griefers, only casual commenters. Most people already have a ton of logins & passwords to remember.
Easy vote systems linked to IP seems to help on sites that have them.
@lolatallofyou, I have to say that you comment sounds a bit too much like “we cant give students an F, they will feel like failures” bs that is ruining our school systems today. Fact of the matter is, if a project sucks it sucks. I think it prudent to inform them that it sucks. I do agree that much of the blatant hatred and disdain that make up many of the posts on this site are a bit overkill however, if you want someone to learn you have to let them know what they did sucks a$$ and offer constructive criticism. Including helpful hints and instruction to help improve their future efforts along with the “this shit blows” comments.
“Because guys that like electronics, in general, aren’t people persons.” Maybe. I remember the BSODomy hack video with these guys in ROFL mode, and it looks like if you dislike black/gay/women/jew/hispanic/vegan/whathaveyou-bashing language they’ll all gang upon you, so I never stick up my head ’cause I know I’ll get cut. But, since you’re asking for our opinions …
If hackaday just keeps putting in awesome impressive content like the last week or so, where there were unsurprisingly no negative comments, problem solved. funny how that works.
The only other thing that might work is simply to ban anyone without simpering praise for whatever, no matter how lame. If it just became the non-critical mutual back-patting site for whatever brainless nonsense people want to post from instrctables, several things would happen;
not only would they people feel threatened by having the bar set high enough to require actual effort of them, you even wouldn’t need to hire new people to improve content, as any recycled ideas would be acceptable.
One takes work, one doesn’t. which one are we going to get? likely the idiocracy, but I can always hope.
Stuntmonkey illustrates the problem attitude.
I hadn’t noticed this site’s comments as being negative. They usually seem pretty on topic to me.
Oh look a clever ploy to get people more involved.
I’m on the site most every day, but I seldom read the comments – so maybe the ploy is working. I will typically only read the comments if a link is broken or something basic is missing in the post.
Some folks like to have an audience even if they have nothing constructive to contribute.
Some people wrap their ego up in what they can say to bring others down, or in what they can say to “prove” their insight to the technology. Just like a dog marking their territory.
Some of us in the DIY community are focused or even obsessive on certain technology without balancing social skills.
i want this book
one thing that annoys me about hackaday comments is the blatant HATRED of Arduino.
From Khordas (above):
“Greater internet dickwad theory: Normal person plus anonymity plus audience equals total dickwad. That and one two many arduino projects by hackers who don’t have clue #1 about what a microcontroller can do.”
while i do agree with the equation (normal person + anonymity + audience = dickwad, with regard to ‘agressive’ comments) i couldn’t disagree more with the rest of the comment.
READ (a few times if necessary):
“The goal of the Arduino project is to make available accessible tools that are low-cost, low capital investment, flexible and easy-to-use for artists and hobbyists who might not otherwise have access to more sophisticated controllers requiring more complicated tools.”
– from wikipedia, via the Arduino site
With these goals in mind, the arduino is quite obviously a success.
I fall into the artist/hobbiest crowd and the arduino has opened the door to the world of microcontrolles for me through its accessibility, abundant documentation, low cost, and great community. (does that make me a ‘fanboy’?
Before reading further please note: the description above does NOT list engineers as the “target audience” for the arduino.
engineers (and the like) seem to be ANGRY that Arduino provides the ‘everyman’ an open door to microcontroller technology and it pisses them off. assumedly, because before arduino they(engineers, etc.)were the only ones that could harness the power of microcontrollers through the knowledge they gained via specialized education. now anyone that wants to use microcontrollers can, and it makes them feel less special – so they lash out and make fun of the ‘lesser’ microcontroller and projects made with it.
its called elitism. pure and simple.
(posting this a second time)
There is a stark difference between the comments on “hacker” sites VS other sites. This isn’t just the Greater Internet FWad Theory in action.
I think part of the appeal of hacking is “secret knowledge” and/or “superior knowledge”. As a hacker, you know how systems work, or at least you think you know. That is the most valuable knowledge you have and what sets you apart from the sheep. That, plus with the necessary confidence/arrogance it takes to rip the mainboard out of something or code up your own solution to a probably-already-solved problem, times the many hours of non-social time with machines, equals brusque and rude behavior.
What I find so sad about the hacker community is the attitude about knowledge is often shit. Years ago my acquaintance Ethan got busted for hacking his ISP with some old sendmail bug. I *really* wanted to be as good as him with software, and I knew that he could teach me. I asked him what I needed to know to get started w/linux (1996, btw), and his answer was “More than I’m gonna tell you.”. Classic “hacker” dickface move. RTFM, or whatever. I took to phreaking instead.
That’s why the only hackers I respect are the ones who are out to share information. We all started somewhere. It’s the reason why my book scanner instructable is 79 steps long and carefully illustrated. I could have written it with a few sh*t*y, blurry webcam pictures and a couple terse sentences of arrogant text, but I want people to be scanning books right along with me. In fact, of the dozen or so people who now have built one, many had never previously touched a soldering iron. For that reason alone, the effort was worth it. Not to mention that I won a laser cutter.
Not only that, it makes all the aggro comments (79 steps!! OMG!! No Page Turner!! WTF!!) look really stupid.
Finally, all hacker types that I know think they can do anything (and they kind of need this to be bold and try stuff, it’s a combo vice/virtue), and I think they’re all a little bit shamed when they didn’t do it first… so they have to “know better”. Hence the aggro comments on how somebody did something wrong. Funny thing is, they did it first. Being expedient is often way smarter than being correct. The idea is not to make one perfect hack, but to get the goddamn work done and get on with your projects.
Hackaday is one of the perfect platforms to change attitudes like this. Just look at all the people who have put up documentation at the request of the community. I wish I had the time to write for HackADay to help encourage this, but at the moment I’m at the late stage of a Masters’ in neuroscience, so I won’t have enough time. Good luck, gentlemen.
@@hpux “anonymity brings out the worst in people”
@ fdsa “what? have you seen the 4chan /b section? come on, thats quality, admit it.”
Think of the havoc 4chan in general has caused. dont be a /b/tard and deny it, because threads in /b/ alone have been the fuel to the fire on a many of ddos attacks. What about the identity thieft that has been witnessed on /b/ on a daily basis? What about all those annoying as @#$% rick-roll videos all over the web on many youtube like sites?? Anon does not know the limits. I personally agree that “anonymity brings out the worst in people” because when anon no longer has to worry about his name he no longer cares about others. Its been proven time and time again.
“I think it prudent to inform them that it sucks.”
Why? To dampen their enthusiasm for the project so they quit hacking, or to make you feel better because “you know more than they do”?
There’s an old saying that is no less relevant now than it was then. “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”
@arduinonaut: that is wonderful. But the problem is when you do something old and tired, and then tack “arduino” onto it and somehow it becomes new and cool.
If it is a genuinely good hack, then it has every right to be here. If the only innovative thing about it is using an arduino, then it belongs on a different site
Taking a look at two previous *good* arduino posts: “droplet”, and “little walker”. I don’t see anything negative in the comments.
They do it because: (even though they typically are not self aware enough to realized it…)
1. Most forum readers of this nature are imature, adolescent, hacker wannabes, living in the basement, sorry, I meant “Control Center”.
2. It is 100% certain that someone of an = or personality disorder who would otherwise never lower themselves to the same level will, in fact, lower themselves to comment thus giving the previous posts “life”.
4. It is 100% certain that this cycle will repeat.
It doesn’t have to be new to you to be worth seeing.
For many hacking n00bs, a how-to on their platform of choice is worthwhile. Sometimes things are notable just for their documentation or openness.
Personally, I appreciate when Hack-A-Day posts well documented projects of all sorts. They don’t have to be novel to have value.
When two engineers meet up and discuss an idea, one engineer spends his time criticizing the other engineers idea. Forums allow anonymous posts, resulting in rude behavior.
The final category of commenter: kumbaya, let’s hold hands, kiss up to the site creators in hopes of getting a pat on the head, defend lame projects because 0.01% of the readership might not have heard about ohm’s law.
Have you ever considered that maybe negative comments help people to become better at what they do? I know that when I was learning C, people telling me my code sucked was my primary motivator for learning how to program better.
saying “your work sucks” is a far cry from
“your work sucks, and so do you”
example 1 is constructive criticism (no, I do not believe that everyone should get a Participant medal
example 2 is the stereotypical beardo who hasn othing else better to do than juggle his sack while beating everyone else into the ground via blog comments
ohh, they break the internet, they steal identities… dude, if you didn’t realize that was sarcasm, i cant help you. who give a $hit, its the internet.
we have all heard it before, arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even when you win, you’re still a retard.
REVISED Greater internet dickwad theory: Normal person plus anonymity plus audience equals total dickwad with poor grammar and a misunderstanding of fundamental language structure.
@khordas: “that and one two many arduino…” -> “that and one too many arduino”
@fdsa : “I that whoever wrote thats guts.” -> “I hate the guts of whoever wrote that.”
The list goes on.
Noobs should use Google for the basics. There are plenty of articles already out there for information on Ohm’s Law and such.
I agree as well that it’s frustrating that everyone has an amazing hatred towards the Arduino.
So what if someone uses it for something simple that maybe a couple caps, a 555, and some resistors could have done, but the Arduino just makes building things fast so much easier, instead of calculations you can just plug some programming into a chip, it’s 2009 for Christ’s sake, this was expected.
i started hack-a-day so i might have a unique perspective. later i went to run MAKE’s online site as senior editor and now i also publish a lot on adafruit’s site so i think there are some things worth sharing.
the comments are what we (you) and the site author’s put in to it. if you spend a lot of time setting the tone, you get what give. it’s that simple.
on MAKE (and now adafruit) i delete comments that insulting, mean or just stupid – and we reward the comments that are useful and provide value, including constructive criticisms. when i remove a comment i will tell the commenter why via email and they’re welcome to make a case for it, so far out of maybe 100k comments, none has ever replied. when someone isn’t providing value, they usually know it.
if hack-a-day wants to solve the commenting issue they just need to have the authors spend time in the comments. the trolls will eventually leave and go on to digg or youtube.
this however costs money since the authors here get paid per post, or have a monthly rate. because of that, there isn’t an incentive for them to spend time in the comments. i would propose that hack-a-day pays authors for posting -and- time spent in the comments, or per comment. sure an author could go crazy and post a million things, but they would be crazy and you wouldn’t want them, so that would solve itself.
the alternative is to do what gawker did (and digg, slashdot, etc) – have “star system” so only the good comments can be displayed. there are many ways to do this, and that could cost some dev time, so unless hack-a-day sees traffic/value/$$ from this it may not happen.
overall, if everyone here wants things to get better they will – “we” get the commenting community we deserve.
the saddest part about all this is that it has to be discussed at all.
I am 12 and what is this?
um, WTF? that was a whole other page of response gone.
is this a glitch, or are you just getting personal now?
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