Quote of the Day
posted Aug 14th 2009 10:34am by Eliotfiled under: misc hacks, news
i have no idea why sites focused around diy electronics have such aggressive comments – Hack a Day applicant
That is weird. What do you think? Comments go!
filed under: misc hacks, news
100 Responses to Quote of the Day
Well maybe if you took time to do some freaking research you might figure that one out.
First post is prime example.
comment wars between fanboys of one thing or another, or butthurt guys who don’t know what they are talking about and get flamed are not uncommon to any website. Hackaday is no different.
I agree, absolute rubbish. You would think these people could find something better to do with their time, like post DIY articles.
Because guys that like electronics, in general, aren’t people persons.
It’s not just diy electronics sites, it’s everywhere online. Online culture has become this way. Immature people (by age or mentality) plus anonymity equals hateful writing. The only way to combat this is administration on the forums or messageboards. Make the comments require registration to post and ban people who abuse it. Eventually it will get better.
You could say “Just don’t feed the trolls!” but that doesn’t work unless everyeone’s on board. And besides, trolls feed trolls.
I don’t like having to register at sites, but unfortunatly it’s the only solution that I see.
I find that many confuse complexity with a good hack. Sometimes duct tape and cardboard *really are* the best solution. It doesn’t matter if you could have done it with a cnc machine and your custom AI control software.
eh i think it more has to with anonymous commenting. if you turned it off and required a registration then the haters would be too lazy to post.
Perhaps an arduio-based solution?
OW ow ow ow owstophitting me I’m kidding!
@john So true. anonymity brings out the worst in people, it’s usually one of the cited reasons for road rage, for example.
I think the haters are like many other diy people, set in their ways. Just because you do it one way dosnt mean there isnt another way. Another thing is, people are cheap. this crowd here tends to come here, not only for cool stuff, but for a cheaper way of going about that they want but dont want to spend money on. I would agree, “Sometimes duct tape and cardboard *really are* the best solution.” I would also agree, ” Immature people (by age or mentality) plus anonymity equals hateful writing.” But, this is also true, “Because guys that like electronics, in general, aren’t people persons.” Just my two cents.
Not fir for hackaday.
I believe I could do better.
They are looking for hackers!
which I am!!
what was that about not being able to please all of the people all of the time? :D
aggressive comments are everywhere on the internet. i would think most people have learnt to filter them out by now :) id just ignore them, your doing fine here at HAD!
I agree with others in these comments, there are a lot of ignorant people who shouldnt be allowed near a keyboard. But to answer the challenge of this post, I think that the comments on diy posts are so aggressive because it is DIY, people are making stuff to do what they want/need it to do. Maybe they arent always clear as to what that is, but if they are happy with it, great for them, and why cant we all just appreciate the ingenuity of fellow DIY-ers
I that whoever wrote thats guts. I’m aggressive because I have no frontal lobe, kiss my a$$.
@hpux “anonymity brings out the worst in people”
what? have you seen the 4chan /b section? come on, thats quality, admit it.
i think that a lot of people who have been belittled, ignored and verbally abused in real life find the internet a good place to exact their revenge upon the world. these kind of people are overrepresented on electronics websites because many people who are interested in electronics have been victimised for being nerds.
sad fact. but think about it next time you blisteringly berate someone for ‘not being intelligent enough’.
Greater internet dickwad theory: Normal person plus anonymity plus audience equals total dickwad. That and one two many arduino projects by hackers who don’t have clue #1 about what a microcontroller can do.
K.
why so much dislike for aggression? it’s fun to be hateful, and hateful comments are entertaining; grow some fucking balls.
“modem balls”.
Here’s my 2cent rant:
I enjoy the articles, I don’t enjoy the posts. I’ve started my own little “point making” exercise, highlighting all of the folks who ruin the spirit of the blog by either
a) flaming the original post for not being “up to snuff” for [insert reason here]
or
b) engaging in the sad one-upsmanship that is so common on the net – slinging one’s epeen out on the table and trying to outdo the “other guy”
There are places for that on the net. This should not be one of them. Go to Slashdot if you feel like you have to TRY to reduce someone’s genuine attempt into nothing just to make yourself feel better.
Teacher’s dont do that. If you want to teach a lesson about doing something better, then do it in the spirit of constructive criticism.
Who gives a fuck how many arduinos are used. If it gets someone thinking about doing something they’ve never done before, its a win.
It boils down to the asshats who just can’t contain themselves and get their balls all swollen making others feel inferior.
Keep hacking and keep the posts coming. The jerkstores who think this site isnt for n00bs can go fly a kite in a thunderstorm.
If indeed it is the case that DIY sites have particularly aggressive posts, I think it likely a side effect of the personality type that is drawn to DIY and hacking in the first place. It is, by default, a place populated mainly by people who have proven tendency towards individualism, lateral thought and strong personality. How many of us have a t-shirt that says “doesn’t play well with others”?
I’ve noticed there’s three main categories of negative comment on these types of sites.
1. “This is old.” or “Repost.” Typically generates disdain for the person who posted the article, usually proportional to the wide-eyed enthusiasm for the project, also proportional to the age of the project. The negativity is rooted in the feeling that the person posting on a website should be at least as familiar with the culture as the readers.
2. “This project sucks.” I’d say that, in most cases, you see this type of comment when the project actually does suck. I remember seeing a lengthy howto (not here) on a “free battery holder” which consisted of taping them together. Duct tape and cardboard is cool if it’s used creatively to solve some actual problem, or displays some skill. Projects that consist of an LED and a battery used in a non-creative way are pretty boring.
3. “You suck.” A direct attack on the person who posted the article, sometimes not related to the project at all. A lot of spelling errors, or making some comment about the project that is either blindingly obvious, over-enthusiastic, exhibits ignorance, or tries to tie the project to something totally unrelated. Basically anything that gives the impression that the poster is “not one of us” or “is too lazy to research” or “can’t even spell correctly.”
There is a lot of over-reactive negativity in comments, but a lot of it does have a valid cause. Authors can reduce it by getting more in touch with the audience and paying a little more attention to what they write. Don’t ignore what someone is saying when they are being negative…they might be right. It’s the audience telling you what they want to see, if you ignore that, they’ll just leave.
Hack a Day is mild compared to political sites.
Registration won’t stop griefers, only casual commenters. Most people already have a ton of logins & passwords to remember.
Easy vote systems linked to IP seems to help on sites that have them.
@lolatallofyou, I have to say that you comment sounds a bit too much like “we cant give students an F, they will feel like failures” bs that is ruining our school systems today. Fact of the matter is, if a project sucks it sucks. I think it prudent to inform them that it sucks. I do agree that much of the blatant hatred and disdain that make up many of the posts on this site are a bit overkill however, if you want someone to learn you have to let them know what they did sucks a$$ and offer constructive criticism. Including helpful hints and instruction to help improve their future efforts along with the “this shit blows” comments.
“Because guys that like electronics, in general, aren’t people persons.” Maybe. I remember the BSODomy hack video with these guys in ROFL mode, and it looks like if you dislike black/gay/women/jew/hispanic/vegan/whathaveyou-bashing language they’ll all gang upon you, so I never stick up my head ’cause I know I’ll get cut. But, since you’re asking for our opinions …
If hackaday just keeps putting in awesome impressive content like the last week or so, where there were unsurprisingly no negative comments, problem solved. funny how that works.
The only other thing that might work is simply to ban anyone without simpering praise for whatever, no matter how lame. If it just became the non-critical mutual back-patting site for whatever brainless nonsense people want to post from instrctables, several things would happen;
not only would they people feel threatened by having the bar set high enough to require actual effort of them, you even wouldn’t need to hire new people to improve content, as any recycled ideas would be acceptable.
One takes work, one doesn’t. which one are we going to get? likely the idiocracy, but I can always hope.
Stuntmonkey illustrates the problem attitude.
I hadn’t noticed this site’s comments as being negative. They usually seem pretty on topic to me.
Oh look a clever ploy to get people more involved.
I’m on the site most every day, but I seldom read the comments – so maybe the ploy is working. I will typically only read the comments if a link is broken or something basic is missing in the post.
Some folks like to have an audience even if they have nothing constructive to contribute.
Some people wrap their ego up in what they can say to bring others down, or in what they can say to “prove” their insight to the technology. Just like a dog marking their territory.
Some of us in the DIY community are focused or even obsessive on certain technology without balancing social skills.
i want this book
one thing that annoys me about hackaday comments is the blatant HATRED of Arduino.
From Khordas (above):
“Greater internet dickwad theory: Normal person plus anonymity plus audience equals total dickwad. That and one two many arduino projects by hackers who don’t have clue #1 about what a microcontroller can do.”
while i do agree with the equation (normal person + anonymity + audience = dickwad, with regard to ‘agressive’ comments) i couldn’t disagree more with the rest of the comment.
READ (a few times if necessary):
“The goal of the Arduino project is to make available accessible tools that are low-cost, low capital investment, flexible and easy-to-use for artists and hobbyists who might not otherwise have access to more sophisticated controllers requiring more complicated tools.”
- from wikipedia, via the Arduino site
With these goals in mind, the arduino is quite obviously a success.
I fall into the artist/hobbiest crowd and the arduino has opened the door to the world of microcontrolles for me through its accessibility, abundant documentation, low cost, and great community. (does that make me a ‘fanboy’?
Before reading further please note: the description above does NOT list engineers as the “target audience” for the arduino.
engineers (and the like) seem to be ANGRY that Arduino provides the ‘everyman’ an open door to microcontroller technology and it pisses them off. assumedly, because before arduino they(engineers, etc.)were the only ones that could harness the power of microcontrollers through the knowledge they gained via specialized education. now anyone that wants to use microcontrollers can, and it makes them feel less special – so they lash out and make fun of the ‘lesser’ microcontroller and projects made with it.
its called elitism. pure and simple.
(posting this a second time)
There is a stark difference between the comments on “hacker” sites VS other sites. This isn’t just the Greater Internet FWad Theory in action.
I think part of the appeal of hacking is “secret knowledge” and/or “superior knowledge”. As a hacker, you know how systems work, or at least you think you know. That is the most valuable knowledge you have and what sets you apart from the sheep. That, plus with the necessary confidence/arrogance it takes to rip the mainboard out of something or code up your own solution to a probably-already-solved problem, times the many hours of non-social time with machines, equals brusque and rude behavior.
What I find so sad about the hacker community is the attitude about knowledge is often shit. Years ago my acquaintance Ethan got busted for hacking his ISP with some old sendmail bug. I *really* wanted to be as good as him with software, and I knew that he could teach me. I asked him what I needed to know to get started w/linux (1996, btw), and his answer was “More than I’m gonna tell you.”. Classic “hacker” dickface move. RTFM, or whatever. I took to phreaking instead.
That’s why the only hackers I respect are the ones who are out to share information. We all started somewhere. It’s the reason why my book scanner instructable is 79 steps long and carefully illustrated. I could have written it with a few sh*t*y, blurry webcam pictures and a couple terse sentences of arrogant text, but I want people to be scanning books right along with me. In fact, of the dozen or so people who now have built one, many had never previously touched a soldering iron. For that reason alone, the effort was worth it. Not to mention that I won a laser cutter.
Not only that, it makes all the aggro comments (79 steps!! OMG!! No Page Turner!! WTF!!) look really stupid.
Finally, all hacker types that I know think they can do anything (and they kind of need this to be bold and try stuff, it’s a combo vice/virtue), and I think they’re all a little bit shamed when they didn’t do it first… so they have to “know better”. Hence the aggro comments on how somebody did something wrong. Funny thing is, they did it first. Being expedient is often way smarter than being correct. The idea is not to make one perfect hack, but to get the goddamn work done and get on with your projects.
Hackaday is one of the perfect platforms to change attitudes like this. Just look at all the people who have put up documentation at the request of the community. I wish I had the time to write for HackADay to help encourage this, but at the moment I’m at the late stage of a Masters’ in neuroscience, so I won’t have enough time. Good luck, gentlemen.
@@hpux “anonymity brings out the worst in people”
@ fdsa “what? have you seen the 4chan /b section? come on, thats quality, admit it.”
Think of the havoc 4chan in general has caused. dont be a /b/tard and deny it, because threads in /b/ alone have been the fuel to the fire on a many of ddos attacks. What about the identity thieft that has been witnessed on /b/ on a daily basis? What about all those annoying as @#$% rick-roll videos all over the web on many youtube like sites?? Anon does not know the limits. I personally agree that “anonymity brings out the worst in people” because when anon no longer has to worry about his name he no longer cares about others. Its been proven time and time again.
“I think it prudent to inform them that it sucks.”
Why? To dampen their enthusiasm for the project so they quit hacking, or to make you feel better because “you know more than they do”?
There’s an old saying that is no less relevant now than it was then. “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”
@strider_mt2k: lol
@arduinonaut: that is wonderful. But the problem is when you do something old and tired, and then tack “arduino” onto it and somehow it becomes new and cool.
If it is a genuinely good hack, then it has every right to be here. If the only innovative thing about it is using an arduino, then it belongs on a different site
Taking a look at two previous *good* arduino posts: “droplet”, and “little walker”. I don’t see anything negative in the comments.
They do it because: (even though they typically are not self aware enough to realized it…)
1. Most forum readers of this nature are imature, adolescent, hacker wannabes, living in the basement, sorry, I meant “Control Center”.
2. It is 100% certain that someone of an = or personality disorder who would otherwise never lower themselves to the same level will, in fact, lower themselves to comment thus giving the previous posts “life”.
4. It is 100% certain that this cycle will repeat.
It doesn’t have to be new to you to be worth seeing.
For many hacking n00bs, a how-to on their platform of choice is worthwhile. Sometimes things are notable just for their documentation or openness.
Personally, I appreciate when Hack-A-Day posts well documented projects of all sorts. They don’t have to be novel to have value.
When two engineers meet up and discuss an idea, one engineer spends his time criticizing the other engineers idea. Forums allow anonymous posts, resulting in rude behavior.
The final category of commenter: kumbaya, let’s hold hands, kiss up to the site creators in hopes of getting a pat on the head, defend lame projects because 0.01% of the readership might not have heard about ohm’s law.
@falcolas
Have you ever considered that maybe negative comments help people to become better at what they do? I know that when I was learning C, people telling me my code sucked was my primary motivator for learning how to program better.
saying “your work sucks” is a far cry from
“your work sucks, and so do you”
example 1 is constructive criticism (no, I do not believe that everyone should get a Participant medal
example 2 is the stereotypical beardo who hasn othing else better to do than juggle his sack while beating everyone else into the ground via blog comments
@John G
ohh, they break the internet, they steal identities… dude, if you didn’t realize that was sarcasm, i cant help you. who give a $hit, its the internet.
we have all heard it before, arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even when you win, you’re still a retard.
REVISED Greater internet dickwad theory: Normal person plus anonymity plus audience equals total dickwad with poor grammar and a misunderstanding of fundamental language structure.
@khordas: “that and one two many arduino…” -> “that and one too many arduino”
@fdsa : “I that whoever wrote thats guts.” -> “I hate the guts of whoever wrote that.”
The list goes on.
Noobs should use Google for the basics. There are plenty of articles already out there for information on Ohm’s Law and such.
@arduinonaut
I agree as well that it’s frustrating that everyone has an amazing hatred towards the Arduino.
So what if someone uses it for something simple that maybe a couple caps, a 555, and some resistors could have done, but the Arduino just makes building things fast so much easier, instead of calculations you can just plug some programming into a chip, it’s 2009 for Christ’s sake, this was expected.
i started hack-a-day so i might have a unique perspective. later i went to run MAKE’s online site as senior editor and now i also publish a lot on adafruit’s site so i think there are some things worth sharing.
the comments are what we (you) and the site author’s put in to it. if you spend a lot of time setting the tone, you get what give. it’s that simple.
on MAKE (and now adafruit) i delete comments that insulting, mean or just stupid – and we reward the comments that are useful and provide value, including constructive criticisms. when i remove a comment i will tell the commenter why via email and they’re welcome to make a case for it, so far out of maybe 100k comments, none has ever replied. when someone isn’t providing value, they usually know it.
if hack-a-day wants to solve the commenting issue they just need to have the authors spend time in the comments. the trolls will eventually leave and go on to digg or youtube.
this however costs money since the authors here get paid per post, or have a monthly rate. because of that, there isn’t an incentive for them to spend time in the comments. i would propose that hack-a-day pays authors for posting -and- time spent in the comments, or per comment. sure an author could go crazy and post a million things, but they would be crazy and you wouldn’t want them, so that would solve itself.
the alternative is to do what gawker did (and digg, slashdot, etc) – have “star system” so only the good comments can be displayed. there are many ways to do this, and that could cost some dev time, so unless hack-a-day sees traffic/value/$$ from this it may not happen.
overall, if everyone here wants things to get better they will – “we” get the commenting community we deserve.
the saddest part about all this is that it has to be discussed at all.
I am 12 and what is this?
um, WTF? that was a whole other page of response gone.
is this a glitch, or are you just getting personal now?
So what if someone uses it for something simple that maybe a couple caps, a 555, and some resistors could have done
@skinner:
the hate isn’t for arduinos, we don’t hate them.
you are right, who cares if someone uses one where a couple of components would have sufficed.
My problem is that mundane daily uses for an arduino don’t deserve featured spots on a hacking blog. Especially more than half of all the coverage some weeks.
We don’t hate arduinos, we hate crappy coverage. I use a screwdriver daily too, and I don’t hate them. I just don’t think it deserves news coverage when i tighten a screw.
I think comments on hackaday seem more hostile because there’s no way to see capitalization.
I agree 100% that positive credit should be given where it is due…
but whats the point of commenting if there is no room for constructive/destructive criticism?
blowing smoke up everyone’s ass for every project they do would be counter productive.
Certainly its nice when people can say ‘hey, good work, nice hack,’ but without the voice of dissent, we will have nothing but leds glued into and onto every f’n thing posted as hacks. Knowing that if you submit crap, you will get a healthy dose of verbal smack, weeds out the crap, or at least holds the system at large to some sort of minimal standard.
this is an angry comment
@Stunmonkey (and others) – you’re saying “we” but that’s unfair to speak for everyone – it seems to me the most vocal snarky folks are also the ones that never have a project to show or share. that’s the unfortunate part, you won’t see anyone who has had many projects on hack-a-day *and* participates in the comments.
hack-a-day *is* the projects that are submitted, if you want to see great coverage, make stuff – or make hack-a-day a place where people who *do* make cool things want to share them.
a lot of makers, hackers and tinkerers i talk say they don’t like it when their projects are featured here because of the comments, go figure. these are amazing projects too, not just “arduino”.
like it or not, a lot of new people are learning electronics through arduino, eventually there will be something else that captures the attention of hundreds of thousands of people but for now this is a big one, hack-a-day is correct in supplying the demand for projects that use arduino – but i don’t think they’re they focus on it “more than half of all the coverage some weeks”…
any way, just some thoughts – i am curious what the site owners are going to do to improve the comments here.
Human nature.
This thread sucks
Not a lot we can do about it, sucks though, people think it is ok and acceptable to enjoy torturing others. Disgusting.
@pt: *raises hand* i have had a lot of projects on hackaday and also comment pretty frequently.
@pt
that’s an interesting insight, about censoring distructive comments to set a good tone that eventually sustains itself
however, i am in no favour of a rating system like that used in slashdot. i just find that distracting…it kinda turns the discussion into a mini popularity contest. who cares what the majority thinks? judge each comment for yourself based on its own merit. in this respect, i like hack-a-day for its aparent transparency.
so i dunno what if anything should be done about the distructive comments here…i just kinda roll my eyes and move on lol
and yes, those arduino things are neat but way overhyped
there’s, in my opinion, a pretty simple explanation: angry people are louder than satisfied people.
@macegr – i’m willing to bet you’re one of the few, if not the only one :)
@Emmanuel – i think “good commenters” could be given comment promotion privileges, just like gawker has – that’s the best system from what i have seen. the authors of the posts and likely 50 or so other people who have contributed in the comments. could work out.
it really doesn’t matter though, the comments on most sites are so bad most folks don’t even read them any longer.
The comments can be from angry people, from spammers, with best intentions or bad intentions but I don’t take much care about it because I decided what post is to my interest or not.
I suggest don’t put too much effort on fight with unknown people. Just read the good one and pass the bad one, like on the real life. :)
This feels like an evolution or rerun of ‘Alchemist’s vs Scientists’ from the rennaisance
Alchemists worked alone and took their knowledge to the grave, scientists (or their rough progenitors) published and communicated amongst themselves. Alchemists work was lost and repeated. scientists work was preserved and replicated.
Now, take a look at a crotchety old geek, watch them try to be social and fail.
Remember to talk to/engineer for non-geeks, if you don’t, your hard work is going to be buried under 100 overpowered arduino projects that will seem much more useful to the bulk of humanity than your uninspiring one, even if it does advance the state of the art.
Also, you will know you’re an alchemist.
To everyone: The arduino thing is just that Hackaday has an abundance of arduino-related posts so it’s kinda fun to post a comment like “This isn’t a hack, it doesn’t have any arduinos!”
late for the party.. i occasionally do stuff and a mention on hackaday is much more valuable to me than e.g. on makezine (why i even keep reading it). comments mean that someone actually noticed your stuff and found it worthy of 10 seconds of their life to write feedback: even if the latter says “omg this crap sucks”, that’s still cool. hackaday comments are the best comments out there!
Ever since hackaday started posting non-hacks people’s comments have become progressively uncivilised here to the point of youtube comment quality. Before then it was a little quite but civil. I think Hackaday has attracted Gizmodo morons.
Maybe a registration system is required but I feel that won’t a be a complete solution.
Ever since hackaday started posting non-hacks people’s comments have become progressively uncivilised here to the point of youtube comment quality. Before then it was a little quite but civil. I think Hackaday has attracted Gizmodo morons.
Maybe a registration system is required but I feel that won’t a be a complete solution.
[I apologise if this is a double-post]
What about a rating system like Slashdot and Youtube have. Give registered users the ability to vote down the worthless comments, and report the offensive ones.
@james
Might as well have a hackaday subreddit in that case
james: systems like that don’t work because people think they should vote down something if they disagree with it.
i often time do not read the comments because of all the negativity and B.S egobation gong on (not just on this site but on the other 50 or so DIY sites i visit often). this is one of the few times that i did.. i have no criticism for Hack-A-Day i love this site i try to visit daily. you can give constructive criticism and encourage some one to improve. but saying some ones project sucks and that they suck will just make them leave… i also want to agree with the elitism A.B.S, and you will see it in all fields not just hackers.. its an ego-trip to help there low self esteem and to feel bigger than some one else….so to all the haters and flamers PISS OFF.long live the bus-pirate
@arduinonaut:
The worst offender in the useless arduino project category is the arduino mousetrap. It uses the microcontroller to simulate a length of wire. The mouse triggers the switch, triggering the arduino to send power to the motor and drop the door to the trap. If you think that’s defensible and that engineers who criticize such rubbish are elitists, then I’m fearful for the state of hacking. I believe that having to solve problems makes smarter hackers. Using an arduino is fine if you’re using it as a microcontroller. It’s a great microcontroller and I’m thrilled that it’s accessible and easy to use. I wish all the ones out there were as easy. I’ll probably end up buying a few at some point, though I still prefer the old standbys. The problem is that if you’re using it as a replacement for some other piece of hardware, especially some simple, cheap, and even more accessible hardware, that’s just plain lazy, and especially if you’re doing it because you’re just beginning, and find writing code simpler than circuits, then you’re staying in your comfort zone where you’re neither learning or being creative. When people come here wanting positive strokes for something that’s neither creative nor a learning experience, they’re not going to get them.
@cb
It takes a big man to point out another man’s typo and pretend that that invalidates his post. It takes a bigger man to decide not to come back with a similar insult, but rather to just let you know that you’re missing the point.
K.
I think there for I am. we all should think freely for we are free thinkers. I you can not accept a little of the negative then you have no right to the positive.
the friken snit i read lets me know people are alive. Just filter it and go on reading. You might get something out of it.
This is my first comment ever on a post and I have been on line for over 28 years. I feel real strongly about this. What your talking about is censorship. DIY is just the opposite.
That is has seen this sort of this in the bulletin board days. To try to filter it pout will mean you filter a lot of good things out. I have watching this happen to the internet since its conception. If get affected by rude comments the you are the one that has a problem.
Please let people be and not try to change that. Look in side and try to change how you respond.
“aggressive”? Compared to what, exactly?
There have been a lot of good, valid positive posts about the value of standards, critical review, etc. They have some very well thought out points on the state of hacking.
The other side of the coin seem to be people whining that not everyone thinks everything they do is wonderful and that makes them sad.
I suggest two sites. One for actual hackers, and the other one for those kids who all have to win a ribbon so nobody feels bad.
We could have hack-a-day, and a sister site called hack-a-daycare.
‘cuz you have to be a real man to mess with diy electronics
anger is a serious part of creativity
“so don’t piss me off today” (c) Gene Simmons
@ Stunmonkey
You sir are a genius. Hack-a-daycare indeed.
k
Part of why the ‘net is so valuable to me & several others is because etiquette goes out the window when anonymity’s the standard, so people just say what they think, with zero regard for hurt feelings. I appreciate the fact that nobody needs to censor their thoughts. The only people who get hurt are those who don’t have enough self-esteem to operate without everyone telling them how wonderful they are.
It ain’t broke, and it doesn’t need fixing.
It’s not reasonable to expect people to be nice all the time – ‘real life’ isn’t like that either.
The huge majority of commenters have got something useful to say, be it constructive criticism or maybe a suggestion to take the idea a step further.
The few ‘habitual haters’ who have nothing to offer but a wave of their undersized willy are well known, and their comments are generally treated with the contempt they deserve.
I always enjoy seeing other people’s projects, whether they’re full of win or crocks of crap – there’s something useful to learn from both sorts, and surely one of the main functions of hack-a-day is to do exactly that… to learn from other people’s triumphs ‘and’ disasters.
the ratings systems on comments i’ve seen on other sites actually do a pretty good of filtering out shit comments. an implementation on hack-a-day would be welcome.
I’m glad that this topic has come up when it did. I’ve been uncomfortable with the nasty, unhelpful tone of some posts, and I regret that they may drive some creative individuals to not read Hack-A-Day or, worse yet, to not share their own creative output with us readers.
For the last few days I’ve been mulling over ways to improve the tone of posts (yes, improved ‘my way’). I’ve been thinking of a voting system that would get rid of the really nasty, hateful stuff. Maybe five votes against a post could get it reviewed for deletion, or returned to the original poster for ‘rephrasing’. Problems: 1. Hackaday probably doesn’t have the resources to add a ‘moderator’ function to review posts. 2. As mentioned by another poster, this could lead to some valuable viewpoints being deleted (although I personally doubt it).
Before I read all these viewpoints, I had hoped that maybe inappropriate comments could be referred back to the poster so that, if they really wanted to see themselves in print, they would try to write something acceptable. But I now don’t think that would work.
I see from the responses that there are two kinds of personalities here: thick-skinned individuals who consider the flameage a good thing, an entertaining thing, who can’t be hurt by it, aren’t offended by it… and the other kind, people like me who consider it a bad thing, a reason to consider no longer reading hackaday, who *are* offended, or hurt, by it.
Apparently the posters who hail from that first group can’t differentiate between hateful, harmful, destructive criticism and constructive criticism. I say that after reading several of them defending (to my considerable surprise) the rightness of that kind of posting.
@pt: Thank you for your work to make forums a less-negative experience.
You know what you get if you let wild-eyed optimism run free? Wired magazine.
If you really want this site to stall troll free, but open, the only proven method is obscurity; Trolls seek the eye traffic of larger targets, so pass on small obscure communities; HAD cannot be compared to the likes of slashdot by this measure.
So keep the articles on topic (don’t drift into mainstream topics) away from topics friendly to the uninitiated (free use of jargon, electrical concepts – if someone wants in bad enough, they’ll initiate themselves with the required knowledge) and we’ll all be merry and bright :->
I saw an article about this on JSTOR a few years back. They analyzed blogs, forums, and the like looking for common trends in social roles. I think they found that people self-organize into common roles based on intent and/or access.
Presumably, people reach conclusions before they post things. Strictly speaking, legitimate discussion is rare because this promotes an environment of advocates, puerile or not. Online interaction is fascinating.
Here is why plain and simple. people leave bad comments and are hyper aggressive for one reason and one reason only. Because they can. Same with diy sites. people do diy projects because they can. human nature is all about doing things because we can. Ive done my fair share of internet assholery, as im sure everyone else commenting has (no need to be two faced on the internet) fact of the matter is if you dont like the comment, life goes on and so should you. just ignore it, say somting constructive and move on. People arent internet assholes because they get picked on irl. heck, ive done it out of nothing but pure boredom. there is no real motive, it just happens.
totally not a hack.
Hacks are done for their own sake, solely for your own enlightenment. Share them online and let people take from them what they will.
If what others take away be a good concept they can use, great, if it be for some stupid ego trip by bashing it, oh well. Sucks but that’s life.
Hacks are done for their own sake. If you are actually building them in an attempt to get some form of validation from total strangers on the internet, you are looking in the wrong place and have deeper issues.
I agree the negative posting is destructive, and yes I can indeed determine the difference between constructive criticism and idiot ego bashing.
It actually seems the “everybody gets an a+” crowd are the ones who can’t tell the difference. They tend to class pretty much anyone as ‘trolls’ who don’t like something, constructively or not.
Let people post, delete the truly absolutely juvenile worst of them, and let the rest fly.
We have all been given 100% free speech, unmediated comments, by hackaday. No B.S from Hackaday. I got to admit that at least I have seen some seriously stupid, racist, not to mention irrelevant crap occupying and wasting a possibly useful discussion. As far as I care Comments and discussion are for learning purposes, especially debate. Keep it civil, to the point, and not-personal and people will learn more stuff from comments. 100% free speech! FUCKI’N Enjoy it! Wit Responsibelesityies!, of course.
I think, in general, that the internet jerkwad theory holds.
Here’s a possibility though, in 3 parts:
Part one: articles are tagged… so why not put a general skill and knowledge level to them. Articles could be tagged for arduino, home automation, etc… with a particular skill level needed for the hack or project.
Part two: have a user system that’ll allow people to filter articles based on skill level and tags.
Part three: have staff moderate comments. Seriously: moderate. Rude comments are detrimental to the nature of sites like this, which thrive of people sharing knowledge. Folks come to Hackaday to see what other people are doing, to gain inspiration, to gain knowledge. There’s no impetus to share when folks shit on your work, regardless of the audience you intended it for originally.
And seriously, can you please put proper capitalization into articles and comments? Removing capitalization pulls more context out of comments.
PS I love this site.
It is sad that moderation is the only possible solution. Responsibility for one’s writing is just too much for some people.
To: Scabby we need capitalization big time man, I capitalize appropriately by habit and it drives me nuts here but I can’t stop it! Takes away from conversation and makes it somewhat more ambiguous.
P.s. I said “to: scabby” cuz @ scabby sounds like I threw a rock at you or something (ow!). Rather than saying something to you.
fuck you you fucking assholes!!!
(just trying to fit it… no harrd feelings)
-shyft
Looking at this whole thread, good, bad, and ugly, there isn’t much here to be bothered about. at all.
If you can’t stand what mild stuff is on here, you can’t really stand going outside either.
For those people counseling, not site moderation, might be a better option.
7H12 p0s7 SuX! m0re leDz!! 3y3M s3W l337!
(Seriously, I love this site! Great job guys!)
@Khordas
yeah that mousetrap…
“The problem is that if you’re using it as a replacement for some other piece of hardware, especially some simple, cheap, and even more accessible hardware, that’s just plain lazy, and especially if you’re doing it because you’re just beginning, and find writing code simpler than circuits, then you’re staying in your comfort zone where you’re neither learning or being creative.”
agreed.
I’m noting the volume of comments to this post vs the post that was originally linked. Also, I think these comments are much worse.
I’m a frustrated individual. I’m surrounded by people that can’t do anything creative for themselves, don’t want any responsibility, and then complain when they have to hire a specialist to fix their stuff (car, house, etc). I can’t seem to explain to these people that they really can fix their own stuff, save money, and enrich their lifelong learning experience. They just don’t understand me.
When you have an attitude like that, it can be very hard at times to be constructive online. I actually really like hack-a-day because if I write up and post a project, the people that really do understand might at least read and appreciate what was done. In the real world, I don’t think that will ever happen…
I don’t even read the comments.
Except for now. Amidoinitwrong?
my response to those complainers of the following types:
1. old news – sorry, but I don’t follow other sites. i *only* check h.a.d. regularly, so it’s my only source of info, and therefore the news is not old to me (unless it’s a repost)
2. i can do better than that – that’s nice. then post something genius and show us. otherwise shut up.
3. personal attack – i think you’re a jerk. i’m guessing most others do also. but that’s probably the response you want
4. h.a.d. attacks – they control the content. it’s their site. if you want them to change, provide some constructive comments. on the other hand, if they want to start posting cookie recipes every other day, that’s their choice. tell them you don’t like it then shut up.
I can not believe you wasted my time with this rss item. I have dropped your feed. Fuckers.
My company will like to hire some of you guys. We are looking for a serious out of the box thinker like Matt, and others. Software guy and code genius.
Love what you all do here. This is where Talent meet the real World.
Any interesting candidate, please contact my email address tovotechjobs@gmail.com
What a shitty post.