Uhm, not to be a pedant, but I believe you meant “succeeding Jaunty Jackalope which was released in April of this year”

Posted at 12:13 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Naer Dinsul

I also believe he meant “every six months”, not “sixth a month”. That’d be an incredibly difficult release schedule. :P

Posted at 12:16 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by SheeEttin

Yawn………this is a hack how?

Posted at 12:31 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by vonskippy

I have been running since last week when the release candidate was posted. This release is fast, pretty, and stable. Stability has been an issue since Gutsy (though even the worst Ubuntu release has been more stable than any Windows release).

Minor annoyances are:
Flash has been buggy on the 64-bit version. Flash is displayed but I can not interact with flash buttons. That makes youtube a bit annoying, I can start a video but no rewind/fast forward/pause.

Posted at 12:31 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by James

I’ve tried Ubuntu a few times, and I’ve really tried to like it, but I can’t. I keep going back to Windows. James’ comment about problems with Flash highlights why: things just don’t work on Linux.

As for Windows’ stability: I’ve never had problems with it. I have a firewall, I don’t have anti-virus software, and I haven’t been infected by a virus since I got my first PC in 1980. I honestly don’t know what people are complaining about.

Posted at 12:57 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Bob

not to be a troll or anything but whats up with the news related posts here?

Posted at 12:58 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by monkeyslayer56

Bob, I agree with you and have similar feelings. I have seen what the big deal is, and I always find myself trying out each new ubuntu release, and then finding that something does not want to work.

Then the solution requires a whole new skill set just to make a web cam or printer function.

XP Professional isint going to leave my computers anytime soon it would seem.

Posted at 1:02 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Chip Bucannon

Ubuntu tries to be like Windows and OSX and in my mind, that’s not what linux is about. Linux’s power comes from the command line, not from using a GUI to do even the most basic of tasks.

Posted at 1:23 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Jamesy

@Chip, I respect your decision, but it is equally vexing in the opposite perspective: when you have an engineering degree and program for a living (I’m not implying you don’t, I have no idea) and you use windows and see a very basic component malfunction (i.e. destabilization due to spyware, or many of the typical annoyances with proprietary software like “it doesn’t do this with the $50 version, for that you need the $100 version which expires in 1 year” ) it pisses you off to no end. You wonder, “why can’t a huge company fix a basic problem like [this]“. To me, the Linux annoyances are understandable, whereas MS has no excuse to bumble on certain things.

Posted at 1:27 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by misha

Linux has its annoyances. They are the learning curve and the online support (google.com). Linux is a great operating system though. If you would rather spend $250 on Windows than use google to troubleshoot problems with Linux, then go for it. It’s your money. I’ll keep the money and use Kubuntu. It still gives you the power of the command line with the convenience of a GUI for simple tasks.
The thing with Linux…when you have a problem, there are thousands of others with the same problem. You do a google search for the problem and find a solution. It is usually as simple as cut and paste commands to fix it. Or maybe just download the latest version of flash and insert it in the proper browser folder.

Posted at 1:33 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by JG

@Naer and @SheeEttin: Fixed, thanks!

Posted at 1:34 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Mike Szczys

Honestly I can argue that a good GUI beats a command line any day. A good GUI includes a command line for batch files, scripts and what not. I havent seen a good command line to date. Cisco IOS sucks, Linux sucks, Windows Sucks. That said, XP has the best GUI available so far, and runs what I want to run.

I wont be going to Win7 anytime soon, not with the problems I’ve seen on our media center(s) (one is Vista SP1 and one is Win7RC)

You should be able to do everything just as fast in the GUI as the console, or you did something wrong. Key presses count as button pushes, so do the math.

Posted at 1:34 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Life2Death

@Bob
“I don’t have anti-virus software, and I haven’t been infected by a virus”

Good to know AV software is pointless. Unless of course, not all viruses are designed to completely fuck things up. Some viruses, shockingly, were crafted to make money.

You could be part of a botnet, how would you know?

Posted at 1:35 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Ian Calvert

” I don’t have anti-virus software, and I haven’t been infected by a virus since I got my first PC in 1980″

Are you serious? With the tens of thousands of virus’ floating around, you can honestly say you have never had one when you have no real way of detecting them?

Posted at 1:41 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Dubious

So, Linux grew on me. Like many others I simply refused saying “I don’t want to dick around with permissions, and trying to find drivers to make this, that or the other work”. I’ve since grown up.

I realised that as will all things Open Source it is the community that drives it. You pick any decent open source piece of software, and behind it you don’t find a team of paid developers being told what bits of new code to add, you find a group of people who enjoy what they do, more than likely have a huge stake in the software (probably because it grew out of a need for something they were passionate about) and if you are not afraid of getting your hands a little dirty, fixes can be made VERY quickly.

There are two types of people out there, consumers and Linux users. :P

Posted at 1:47 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by tehgringe

One of the cool things I find about linux is the support for slower systems. Each version of window uses more RAM and CPU then the previous version requireing the user to buy a better system if they want to upgrade to the latest and greatest version of Windows. But with Ubuntu you have always been able to install the latest version on small systems that you used in the 90’s. Maybe you will not beable to use Compiz, and it will be very watered down, but you will still have an up to date OS running. With Windows you will have both the cost of the new computer and the OS. But you can always plan ahead and build a computer that will support new versions Windows but then again you might not have the money to do that.

Cheers

Posted at 1:53 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by nave

Yeah, that is probably one of the other great attractions that I later found with Linux.

Its like mud, throw it any old system and it usually sticks.

Posted at 2:05 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by tehgringe

@Bob et. al. I understand you desire not to complicate you life with Another set of stuff. I make my money from cleaning up widows issues. Since moving to linux I have been able to do something that was always a nightmare with windows AUTOMATION. PXE booting,

automatic windows installs, offline reading and modification of the windows registry, network ntfscloning, offline virus scan etc. Almost have offline user migration, almost fully scripted. Try doing that with windows, it becomes mess quickly. Doing it from linux, it starts off mess and evolves into a solution. Document what you do and evolve it into a script, after a while you only have to start the appropriate script.

Anyone into getting more out of their systems, needs to look at linux.

The other cool thing is all the cruft thats put into windows make you buy up the windows food chain, and not their competitors, isnt there.

Its such a relief….

Posted at 2:10 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Paul

@pedants. So I didn’t proof read my earlier post. I only just got up, sue me.

Posted at 2:12 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Paul

I’m a long time Ubuntu user, and I’m glad that hack a day is (are) Ubuntu user(s).

Anyway 9.10 has some great changes. Especially Ubuntu One :)

Posted at 2:22 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by netinfinity

I tried to use Ubuntu a few years back until an ‘automatic’ software update botched my system completely and rendered my machine useless for several days while the moderators of the forums bumbled around making excuses. I think that the ‘forced development cycle’ is rather pointless if you can’t keep out major bugs like that. I’ll admit that small bugs will make their way in regardless of design rigor, but that was a bit much.

Which is why Debian still wins hands down.. ;)

Posted at 2:24 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by medix

I’ve been running Kubuntu Karmic since Alpha 6, and it was stable even then. It runs laps around Jaunty due to the newer kernel (which I required due to software RAID problems, patched in 2.6.30). Also, Amarok2 and digiKam 1.0 only run on Karmic, not Jaunty (without some kernel hacking).

So hey, Amarok2, digiKam 1.0, and no software raid problems? It’s worth it.

Posted at 2:32 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Shadyman

Two things are keeping a windows partition on my drive.

First is DirectX. Wine just doesn’t cut it for games. There seams to always be quirks or the game just won’t run. OpenCL isn’t really a good enough substitute for most developers to choose it over Microsoft’s offerings.

The second is that with Windows I get to talk to the hot sounding Indian chick every time I have to activate a fresh install, someday she will marry me.

I was amazed with Ubuntu the last time I swapped hardware around. I swapped motherboards, turned the power on and went to get coffee to get me through installing two OS’s. When I came back it was at the gnome desktop working as well as ever, windows failed miserably as I was expecting it to.

Posted at 2:35 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by SexieWASD

A couple of people have asked me how I know my system isn’t infected, since I don’t run with AV software.

1) I do an AV scan about once a year, and it never finds anything. 2) Microsoft now has its Malicious Software tool, which is updated once a month and never finds anything on my system. 3) My firewall (ZoneAlarm) requires I authorize every app that talks on the net, so I assume that would detect if my PC were on a botnet.

I’m required to have AV software running at my work, and it’s never detected anything either. I’ve concluded that if you’re savvy enough to know what not to download, and to run Firefox and Thunderbird, viruses just aren’t a big threat.

Posted at 3:05 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Bob

So, Windows grew on me. Like many others I simply refused saying “I don’t want to dick around with permissions dialogs, and trying to find good antivirus software so my computer continues to work”. I’ve since grown up.

I realised that as will all things Closed Source it is the community that drives it. You pick any decent closed source piece of software, and behind it you don’t find a team of unpaid developers arbitrarily deciding what bits of new code to add, you find a group of people who are being paid for what they do, more than likely have a huge stake in the software (probably because they have stock in the company that sells it) and if you are not afraid of enabling automatic updates, fixes can be made VERY quickly.

There are two types of people out there, neckbeards and Windows users. :P

Posted at 3:11 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by gringeteh

Hey guys. Long time reader.

I’m an Ubuntu Member / Dev Monkey.

How is this a hack? I read this for hard hacks, not software reviews. I _clearly_ care about the release, and I have worked countless hours in the community, and on Karmic.

Please bring back the old hackaday. This is getting lame.

Posted at 3:12 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Paul Tagliamonte

A few people have mentioned that, whenever they run into a problem with Linux, they can find a solution through Google. The same is usually true of Windows problems.

Posted at 3:16 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Bob

Have they fixed Amarok in Ubuntu yet? I decided not to upgrade to 9.04 because they went to Amarok 2, which had no working iPod support.

Posted at 3:22 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Orv

I really don’t understand the animosity between the Linux and Windows worlds. Is it really a competition? If Bob likes Windows, why should we argue with him?

And I really think that people who see Linux as a “Windows Alternative” are missing the best parts of both operating systems.

I’m a Slackware user and I use Linux because of the Unix Philosophy, not because I think there are problems with Windows. In fact, as a gamer and software developer I also have some Windows machines and, like Bob, have kept them all free of viruses for over a decade. (I know because I run monthly scans with ClamAV.)

Use Linux because you want *nix. Otherwise just learn to keep your Windows box clean.

Posted at 3:29 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by xoring

lolz @ gringeteh

Nods in acceptance that it can swing both ways. Oh by the way, how many times have you been able to contribute changes to Windows 2000/XP/Vista?

meh…

Posted at 3:35 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by tehgringe

Linux Ubuntu is great, much more easy to use than Windows.

I have friends that for hacking with Arduino have to install a lot of drivers, like the ones for FTDI IC, for the serialusb. On Linux ubuntu you don’t need to install that drivers and others! it’s just plug the usb devices and they work! — much more quick and easy.

Linux Ubuntu it’s a paradise for hackers ;-)

Posted at 3:41 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by casainho

Ubuntu Linux is an awesome hack. Please submit more hacks like this. I wish hackaday were more like freshmeat and update us on all sorts of software releases. I feel you should a least give it a try.

Posted at 3:52 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by morehacklesscrap

@xoring

It isn’t just about viruses. Windows itself has never been built well. Its bloatware built on top of bloatware. And don’t even get me started on how Microsoft has never had an original idea of their own.

Linux isn’t yet the true alternative to windows, only because Microshaft insists on bullying everyone into bowing to their ’standards’. But its getting very close. With every new user and every upgrade its becoming a more viable alternative.

Posted at 3:57 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by James

Just thought I’d add my $0.02….

I switched from Windows XP to Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty) about 5 months ago, not too long after the last release. I didn’t switch because I ‘hated’ windows/Microsoft/Bill Gates/whatever. I no longer had access to a valid (read legal) windows license, and didn’t want to shell out the money for one.

My motivation was strictly based on the cost of the OS’s (Windows XP > $100, Ubuntu Free).

Posted at 4:12 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Chris

@Orv

See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1152094

Posted at 4:12 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by GSV Ethics Gradient

I’m a software engineer, so I understand the implications of bloatware. But when I sit down to write text, manipulate images, etc., I simply don’t care. Fast hardware is cheap, and performance is satisfactory.

What I do care about is that Photoshop is better than GIMP (IMO), the buttons work for Flash, I can give the MS Word documents to other people without worrying about formatting surprises, etc.

I won’t dispute the bloatware criticism. But it won’t convince me to switch.

Posted at 4:14 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Bob

If I didn’t play video games and have to interact with windows systems (yes there’s no capitol because it doesn’t deserve one) during the course of my duties as a pen tester/sec analyst I would never even touch it. I have Linux on 4 of my 5 systems and only the wife and son use windows for games they play that I can’t beat wine over the head enough to make work.

God I can’t wait to convert them over as well, I might just buy a new console system for games and tell them to suck it up =P

Posted at 4:38 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Zymastorik

@GSV Ethics Gradient: Thanks for the pointer!

Posted at 4:53 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Orv

This is why you don’t post non-hack news on a hack blog.

Posted at 5:02 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by muffin

Nearly 20 years on, and we’re still having this windows -v gnu/linux debate.
Once most ordinary joe users get into the mind set that they don’t really need to care about the actual operating system they use, it will be easier to dump windows and use linux. Forget the OS and concentrate on the apps.
1. Browsers, another holy war in itself. Even the most ardent windows follower will happily use a non MS alternative (Firefox, Opera, Chrome, Safari)
2. Email client: hell, most people have long since abandoned Outlook, and most probably use a web bases email outside of work.
3. IM client: hmmmm, did MS even get around creating one of their own yet?
4. PDF
5. .doc, .xls, .ppt You don’t need to confine yourself to MS product for these, Open Office will handle all of these formate and much much more.

6. Apache, THE standard when it comes to web serving. For a brief time, even MS hosted their website on Apache after one too many server crashes/denial of service attacks on them.

Companies like google have a customized version of Ubuntu on all their desktops.

For most people, this is about as deep into the Operating system as they will ever go, once more people realize this, it will be easier to take that final step, and by the same computer for less by opting for the pre install of Ubuntu instead of the the MS windows options.

Posted at 5:38 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by M

Bob:”A few people have mentioned that, whenever they run into a problem with Linux, they can find a solution through Google. The same is usually true of Windows problems.”

The other day I found a bug in a library. The solution? Two commands and I had the source code downloaded, one file edit to correct the bug, two commands more to compile and install.

How can someone who defines himself as a hacker be comfortable in something so restrictive as Windows?

Posted at 5:39 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by IceBrain

I don’t remember seeing any mentions of recent BSD releases.

You guys fail so hard, not a hack.. really, please shut this pathetic blog down.

You guys have jumped the shark.

Posted at 6:00 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Ode

@IceBrain

Do you hack your multimeter? Your soldering iron? Do you hack your wrenches and screwdrivers? An operating system is a tool, and if it performs its function well enough, then I won’t mess with it. Personally, I’ve never witnessed a library bug using Windows–perhaps that’s a Linux thing?

Posted at 6:22 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Devin

Not only is this not a hack, it’s written like the audience has never heard of Linux before. Less of this crap pls.

Posted at 6:27 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Rizzo

We just released a fleet of netbooks running Karmic 9.10 NBR. In the corporate word of windows I think that’s still “hack” worthy.

What’s even better, the “hack” that the IT dept used to fix the only issue(ish) thing that has came up.

Releasing a fleet of anything on windows has been and will always be riddled with little “windows” issues.

Open source will have theirs too, but in the past couple years, they’ve cut that down, a lot. Add to that the quicker ability of software workarounds or fixes – not having to wait for another company to write something – and adoption is accelerating.

Word out to the BSD comment though – an important part of Open Source is that kernel diversity. The fonzy reference is a bit close to accurate too. Ubuntu probably isn’t a hack for this crowd.

I’m sure they’ve all been using Linux for a while now…

Posted at 6:33 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Enicko

@Devin:
Hacking tools? Yes, we do!

As for not witnessing a library bug in Windows, I think you should go tell that joke in Wine mailing list – I’m sure they could use a laugh.

Posted at 6:42 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by IceBrain

for years i wanted a linux sustem, but because of my restriction to dial-up internet, i could never do anything with the os once installed. once i finally got DSL, i headed straight for ubuntu. after weeks of searching google, posting on forums, and pulling my hair out, i gave up and went back to xp.

for me, at least, the learning curve was so great that it was impossible to complete even the most basic computing functions without searching online for a solution. i never figured out how to mount an external hard drive, never got wine to run any programs that accessed the dvd drive, never could get my mouse’s middle button to work, etc. linux might be a great os for developers, software engineers, and IT pros, but for anyone who’s not interested in typing commands into the command prompt that they copied from a google search, i say that windows and mac are the only choice so far.
show me a linux distro that can run windows executibles in a VM without fuss, utilize hardware such as modems, media keyboards and mice and external drives without user intervention beyond selection of make/model, and one that only requires user command line intervention when a GUI component is malfunctioning. if there is one out there, so help me god, i would switch tonight. i’m all for open source, but only when the software is useful, and for me i still haven’t found a linux distro that is.

Posted at 7:02 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by ...and i'm a pc

shut up, all of you, we’ve all heard the linux vs. windows arguments before.

Posted at 7:03 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by nave.notnilc

It’s not that I think Windows is fine as it is. Of course it has it’s problems (so does Linux).

My point is that by categorizing Linux as a “Windows alternative” you’re missing the grander picture, and coloring the argument in favor of Windows. Simple proof: Ubuntu. It’s one of the most bloated and inconsistent Linux distros because it’s focused on being a “Windows alternative”.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have Slackware and Gentoo which clearly care more about leveraging the power of UNIX heritage rather than providing a an alternative to Windows users. As a result their distributions are leaner and more stable.

Trying to make Linux into a “better Windows” will just cause Linux to inherit the same problems as Windows because people will have the wrong expectations from the onset.

Linux began as an alternative to UNIX and it has succeeded in leveraging the strengths of UNIX and even extending them.

Use Linux because you want *nix; not because you want a better Windows.

Posted at 7:11 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by xoring

I really don’t understand why some people are saying that Ubuntu somehow defies what linux is all about, and that the GUI is useless- First off, the entire idea of linux is not “about” anything, it’s about everything. If Linux was only about the CLI – just one central ideal interface and structure – then it would be no better than the world of windows. Linux is ABOUT variety. What the user wants, what the user IS. So stop complaining that ubuntu is a windows copycat- it isn’t, and if you don’t like it, that’s because it’s not your flavor of linux. Don’t force your ideals upon others as if they were complete noobs for enjoying a GUI- it just so happens you can enjoy and have both, cohabiting on the same system, at the same time.

And for the record, your argument is invalid and out of context- look up the meaning of the name “Ubuntu” and why it was applied to the distro in the first place.

Posted at 7:30 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by TALR

@and i’m a pc
Um… when’s the last time you’ve tried ubuntu? I remember just a few years ago I had to sacrifice a chicken to get wireless working. Last night, however, I installed 9.10 on several computers (netbook, laptop, and desktop), and everything worked out of the box.

Posted at 8:16 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by daler

Bob said “What I do care about is that Photoshop is better than GIMP”

Photoshop CS4 is $298.85, how can that be better then free? What kind of additional features does it add for $300? I know what id expect for that kind of money, and a piece of software cant do it.

gringeteh said “You pick any decent closed source piece of software, and behind it you don’t find a team of unpaid developers arbitrarily deciding what bits of new code to add”

are you serious? all these dev’s are just a bunch of tools, randomly adding code here and there willy-nilly.

Posted at 9:01 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by linus

I used openBSD for awhile years ago. Jesus that is a tuff nut to crack…Now the installs don’t take three days and two other computers to figure out, but i still wont migrate off of windows. My system is clean and efficient. All my computers always have been. Know your system and you wont wonder why about a problem anymore, you just know. The problem i have with linux systems is how much time it takes to get anything to work. Its gets old real fast. The automation is great and you can do alot with it. I just don’t do any of those things. I don’t have youthful enthusiasm anymore. I can’t just say, ‘hey im gonna make my own web crawler today because its fun’ and then stay up all night doing it. I need a reason. A real reason. All I do on my computer anymore is read and play games. Sure linux has games, but I can’t play l4d2 competitively on it now can I?

Posted at 9:47 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by nope

I agree with the earlier poster that these windows vs. linux arguments have been played out before. If you are a windows user who is not switching, congratulations, you posts add so much value to this discussion. If you want to shell out handfulls of cash to get an OS that works no better than this free one, go ahead nobody is stopping you. However do not say that windows is better in any way. I use both linux and windows at work and have both a windows and linux computer at home. Over the past few years distros like fedora and ubuntu have made huge advances and I now find them easier to use and much more stable than windows. I used to have to transfer some files off the linux box onto the windows box to access the files. I have had no problems opening files (office and the like) in linux. Also, I rarely have to install a driver unlike windows. I just plug a device in and it usually works. If I do need some software I can usually find a free version in the distros repository so I dont have to run to the store and dish out even more money for software. Is it perfect, heck no, but the linux annoyance list has now gotten much shorter than the windows annoyance list.

Posted at 9:55 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by jimmy john

Oh and my stance on open source software…I have both gimp and photoshop. Gimp is a pain, photoshop is not. Doesn’t hurt that I know someone that uses it for a living. The only open source software that is on par with its proprietary counterpart is openoffice. I’ll stop using that when you tear it away from my died twice, frozen, brain encrusted hands.

I say again. If you know your system, you will never have problems you cant fix. Windows definitely included (loved windows ME, still have it on a p3).

Posted at 9:56 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by nope

This is where the drunk friend says, “Dude, are you going to let him talk to you that way?”

Whatever. I use XP for the apps that run best on XP and I use linux for the stuff that runs best on linux. Having said that, my crescent wrench is DEFINITELY better than my caliper and don’t let him tell you otherwise.

Posted at 9:58 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by jimmys

*nix is great because you can change everything on the system, often times by simple altering a text file. Like “nano ~/.bashrc” and you can alter the way your shell will act. Change everything from color coding to adding new aliases & variables. Write scripts using bash commands rather than an advanced language and cut down on development time.

I really don’t know if you can get deep down into the system on a Windows box like you can in *nix, but then most people don’t need or want to.

For the most part the different distributions are only skin deep, underneath its still Linux.

As for me, still waiting for F12. >:)

Posted at 9:59 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by hybridr6

i use windows because bla bla bla…
i use mac bla…
i use linux…
it’s nothing to get upset about.
besides PBR is the best beer ever, get over it.

Posted at 10:02 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by joe

Posted at 10:35 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Andrew

I agree with so many of you, but I agree with letting this flamefest die much much more.

I think TALR has the right idea about Linux being for everyone. Linux isn’t a cappuccino – it’s all coffee! ;)

@linus: Price is just one factor in what makes something better. Photoshop has more features(don’t ask me to list them) which is a plus. It’s also more stable. On the other hand, it has draconian DRM and is expensive.

Weigh out the pros and cons and decide if software is for you. For most home users, the price is a HUGE negative, enough to make GIMP the obvious choice – but perhaps not for businesses.

Unlike you, I don’t tell people what they should think. Your disbelief that anything could be better than GIMP astounds me. I try to point out pros and cons and let people decide on matters themselves, because everyone has different requirements.

Posted at 11:15 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by BikeHelmet

Hooray, another iteration of EZModo Linux.

No one cares.

Posted at 11:33 pm on Oct 29th, 2009 by Rawrl

How does the upgrading system work?
I’d hate having to download an entire Ubuntu version every 6 months. Can you upgrade like Mac OS X, keeping all your settings and data?

Posted at 12:46 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by Gert

You open the update manager and it shows an Upgrade button. You don’t get options like encrypting the home directory, or grub 2. However you can install these yourself if you desire.

Posted at 2:03 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by blankthemuffin

>>”Photoshop CS4 is $298.85, how can that be better then free?”

When you’ve lost numerous working hours to usability glitches and poor user interfaces, that “free” thing actually starts to have negative value. $300 is cheap even if it just saves you from all the rage you get with GIMP.

It’s the difference between buying furniture from a store and dumpster diving for planks and board. One way gets you free furniture, and the other way gets you nice furniture that don’t look like they belong in a punk rocker’s bedroom.

Btw. have any of you noticed how the sound controls in Ubuntu seem to be more and more buggy every time they “improve” it? In 9.04 I could at least get all of my speakers to work with a bit of twiddling, but in 9.10 the control panel for sound is simply a clusterfuck of fail. The 5.1 configuration options give a nice flanger effect when I try to pan the sound between front and rear speakers. It seems they just went from bad to worse with Pulseaudio.

Posted at 2:40 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by Einomies

Just shut up and like it

Posted at 2:55 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by Dex

Nothing personal to Hackaday, but I have removed you from my Google Feed Reader. I will certainly come back and check the site every so often, but I keep getting overwhelmed with RSS updates that aren’t the kind of hacks that made me follow in the first place.

You guys running the site are great, and the content is usually pretty interesting, but it seems the site has shifted from “digital hacks” to “interesting technology”. Both of these are interesting, but only the first one keeps me coming back every day.

Posted at 4:46 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by Tobias

HA HA HA The OS so good they can’t give it away lol. Linux is still a ways away from me dropping a box off at my grandma’s house and not worrying. I guess it would be cool because she would not be able to install ANY software without learning a handful of code first. So everybody get on your XP machines and DL the latest version of bloat (yes linux is getting fat in the pants these days). Besides that, my wife damn near left me after dual booting her laptop. Her exact words,”so is it a desktop program or something because that is all i see it do.” No honey you dumb bitch, you simply have to open a console type in a bunch of random letters with pluses and minuses after and hit enter. And thanks to all of the linux open sourcers who still find time to write virii for Windows amongst their busy forum schedule. My final verdict: Linux will be friendly enough for the living room by 2012 and will neatly coincide with the end of the world simply becase someone hit a random -d instead of being able to just push OK.

Posted at 5:33 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by blue carbuncle

After 19+ years in the I/T biz I can easily say that all O/S suck and all O/S have their purposes and all O/S are useful to somebody. So elitism gets nobody anywhere unless you’re a MAFIAA member or high in government or big business. Proliferating the War of the Operating Systems helps nobody. If you like it and can live with it then use it.

Personally I have one Windows machine for the Cisco educational stuff and other minor non-replicatable apps and Mac+Linux+NetBSD+OpenBSD for everything else. My wife and child use Windows on their ThinkPads. Use what works for you. [/rant]

That said I kind of agree that a new Linux distro version is not a hack and doesn’t belong here. I heard about the release from a number of other places – I don’t need to hear about it here.

Posted at 5:55 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by nimitzbrood

It is so a hack! Or at least Ubuntu has been screwing up something new with every release since 7.10 (I run Fluxbox, as Linux is supposedly about choices and bloat aside, I hate the current Gnome and KDE). I’ll probably give it a try but I’ve been thinking that since I’m already hacking config files I haven’t seen since 2004, I might as well run Slackware and at least get a fast system.

That new windows is actually rather sweet, though the new movie maker doesn’t like my video card.

Posted at 9:00 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by the other adam

I use VMware player on a Vista Box I can run virtual machines and Alt Tab between the machines running since these Linux type O/S’s are low taxing on the CPU I notice no Lack of performance on this method. I run Gnome, Backtrack4, VISTA, Serve2003, and I’m about to Test drive this new release of Ubuntu. So Why not get what you want out of all these worlds?

Posted at 9:01 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by guy_McGuy

… and as for photoshop… GIMP is not a photoshop replacement! That should be obvious to anyone who’s used both. It’s more than good enough for most people and way better value than Elements (and while it works a bit differently, if you have a brain it’s no harder to learn from scratch than PS and in some ways I prefer the interface) … but if you’re a photographer or a designer PS does a number of important things that GIMP can’t, and a whole lot of other things a lot more easily.

Posted at 9:08 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by the other adam

This is funny. The typical internet triangle of debate: “1. Mine’s better. 2. No! Mine’s better. 3. WOULD YOU TWO SHUT UP NEITHER ONE IS BETTER!”

Anyway. I use Ubuntu for my main systems and an XP virtual machine for my industry specific software.

Posted at 9:09 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by carzRfun

carzRfun:

I agree but the windows users are the bigger loosers in this thread because the post is about a linux distro yet they felt compelled to troll.

Posted at 10:36 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by jimmy john

daler:
“Um… when’s the last time you’ve tried ubuntu? I remember just a few years ago I had to sacrifice a chicken to get wireless working. Last night, however, I installed 9.10 on several computers (netbook, laptop, and desktop), and everything worked out of the box.”

I lol’ed. I can definitely agree with the “few years ago thing”. Ubuntu has been doing a much better job of late with working straight out of the box.

Posted at 11:35 am on Oct 30th, 2009 by carzRfun

well straight out of the box I just installed Ubuntu and my mouse claibration is off by a few inches, hmmm now Im searching the forums for a way to fix this.

Posted at 12:08 pm on Oct 30th, 2009 by guy_McGuy

@therian,
We can see through the fake email address. You’re on the short path to getting marked as spam permanently.

Posted at 1:44 pm on Oct 30th, 2009 by Caleb Kraft

Shit. I don’t really get why people treat operating systems like sacramental items. Use what works for you and for the job.

Posted at 3:42 am on Oct 31st, 2009 by Tachikoma

I use a bit of everything in terms of operating systems, I use them what they’re needed for and which is easiest for me to maintain support for my clients systems.

Windows – XP/Server 2003/Server 2008/Se7en
Unix – NetBSD/FreeBSD/Mac OS X/Mac OS X Server
Linux – Debian/Ubuntu/Redhat

I’m very much of the opinion if it works for you then use it. However one operating system I refuse to touch unless I really really have to, …Windows Vista… now we can all agree that was an abomination! :D

Posted at 9:21 am on Oct 31st, 2009 by RHF

NOT EVERYTHING ON HACK A DAY HAS TO BE A HACK. i mean, TECHNICALLY, they’re only obligated to deliver 1 hack every day.

Posted at 11:35 am on Nov 1st, 2009 by luno

What I like most about Ubuntu is the user community.

I can find fixes for things that are broken much faster on Ubuntu than I can on any other Linux distribution and certainly faster than I could on Windows.

Posted at 6:05 pm on Nov 2nd, 2009 by Maj

I know I won’t be able to add much to a “Windows vs. Linux” debate, and that whatever I add will be of little use, but still… I would like to make some points worth considering before making such comparisons:

1) OS vs external agents. A good example are games, Photoshop or AutoCAD. Windows can’t be considered “better” because more SW is developed for it. SW companies make games and programs for Windows because they see a bigger market and thus more profit. Period. If suddenly they made games only for Linux, it would become “better”? External agents should be that: external. If someone coerces you to choose an orange over an apple, you could abide. But you could never say that “because” of that, oranges are better (or worse).

2) Particular cases vs. the general case. It is heart-touching that some Windows users claim to be virus-free even without an antivirus. But let’s keep perspective. Virtually all malware out there exploit weaknesses in Windows, not Linux. Virtually all botnets are Windows machines. Virtually all mission-critical machines in banks or governments use Unix or some derivative, not Windows (no, I don’t have sources for my statistics, but we all know them to be true). Particular cases are just bits in the general statistic, which is the data that counts.

3) Relative vs. absolute numbers. One could argue that Windows suffers more malware than Linux because it’s more extended: Windows has more users and more malware. However, comparing two sets of absolute numbers with a different base is of little use. Now, how prominent is the malware incidence *relative* to its user base? Linux users being around 1% of the total computer users is a common estimate, so it is a safe assumption that Windows has between 50 and 200 times more users than Linux. Let’s say 200. Now, Windows is infected with 200 times more trojans or viruses (only) than Linux? There are (only) 200 times more Windows botnets? On the “good” side: there is 200 times more software for Windows? (remember Debian alone has over 25k packages) There are 200 times more Windows computers in the top500.org than Linux ones (from the top of my head, like >80% Linux, <1% Windows)? Why is it that the relative numbers are below 200x for the "good" things, and above 200x for the "bad" things?

Posted at 4:14 am on Nov 3rd, 2009 by Iñaki Silanes

@Jack:

I’m obviously feeding a troll here, but don’t you think your very comment is an insult to your fellow Windows users? Your resort to name calling for blatant lack of arguments might undermine the position of other Windows users who *do* have arguments against me, or Linux, or pro-Windows.

Posted at 1:27 pm on Nov 3rd, 2009 by Iñaki Silanes

I have installed this release on my acer laptop along my vista ultimate edition and so for no real problems to mention other then the flash issues everyone seems to be having. other then that it is very stable and asthetically pleasing.

Posted at 6:54 pm on Nov 4th, 2009 by Kelsey

and it seems my spelling isnt any better on linux as i type this and the last post. lol

Posted at 6:55 pm on Nov 4th, 2009 by Kelsey

Definately a Ubuntu fan. As for it being a hack, maybe not. However, you can hack the crap out of ubuntu down to every last character of code. I don’t know how much of Windows code can be modified by the average user. Also ubuntu can be used as a hack, for example the live CD can be used for recovery or as a benchmark for testing hardware. There are definately better distro’s based on one’s needs though. Puppy linux is my personal favorite. Fully functional OS in a 100MB ISO. I see this as relevant to this website because think of all the applications that Ubuntu can be used for. Like many others have said it’s a tool, and a lot of the hacks are how to make or acquire tools. But then again this audience may not be the right crowd since most hackers probably learned code on a *nix terminal. Like telling a bunch of carpenters that there is this thing called a saw and it cuts stuff.
Side note, I wonder just out of humor how many windows viruses were written and compiled on a *nix machine.

Posted at 9:50 am on Nov 10th, 2009 by Taylor

Crap, people you are acting like a bunch of 5 year olds fighting back and forth, is it impossible to have a civil discussion anymore?

Posted at 8:52 pm on Nov 13th, 2009 by Doug

to all the haters out there that think it takes some miracle to make something work in ubuntu, i have this release, and it is fairly simple if you are anything more than a brainless window licker who bought a mac cause commercials tell you they’re better. i mean seriously, even getting things to work in windows is harder than with ubuntu 9.10. it’s called synaptic package manager. it can find anything and everything to fix or tweak your computer. my logitech mouse wasn’t working, so i loaded my sunaptic, typed logitech, read the description for the files i could choose, and installed the right ones. on windows you would have to look for the files yourself. it doesn’t get much easier or user friendly than linux. karmic koala has my vote.

Posted at 7:37 pm on Nov 17th, 2009 by hfourexe

hfourexe, you’re missing the point. Windows users never have to deal with “my logitech mouse wasn’t working”. Logitech mice always work on Windows.

Of course, that’s not because Windows is better than Linux. It’s because Logitech works very hard to make sure their mice will always work on Windows.

But from the end user’s point of view: he can get a free OS where he might have painful hassles with the mouse, the video driver, the Flash player, etc. Or he can spend $150 or whatever and have the hardware “just work”.

I’m a software engineer. I hack electronics and firmware for fun. I’m not a “brainless window licker”. But I’m more than happy to pay some money to avoid hassles with my PC hardware.

Posted at 8:19 pm on Nov 17th, 2009 by Bob

Very good point on the mouse thing, Bob! However, I think that you also miss one point. When you pay 150$ to “avoid hassles” and use Windows, you are paying more than money. You are paying with your freedom, and you are paying by degrading the development prospects in IT. The outrage or mock the previous sentence could cause in the reader stresses the carelessness and unconsciousness with which that is done.

You pay with your freedom, because not only you abide by draconian EULAs, but you also fall in an spiral of dependence of MS and MS-compatible products. You will have to buy whatever they put in front of you. If MS chooses to obsolesce your current Windows version, you’ll have to buy the next one. If the new version requires new hardware, you will have to buy it. If MS decides that Windows will not be compatible with such and such protocol or software (e.g. different command line shells, or file systems beyond NTFS) that’s that, you have no say.

You also hinder IT development because MS is not there to make the World a happy place. They are there for the money (which I don’t criticize, but I feel no need to dance to their tune either). Consider the following: if current Windows supports say 1GB hard disks, and suddenly MS discovers how to support 1PB, rest assured that next Windows version will not support beyond 1TB. Then, the following one will support 1PB. If they can charge you twice for the same development cost, they will. Of course, since “everyone uses Windows”, the hardware makers will not produce HDs beyond 1TB until Windows supports them, even though Linux (or Mac, or BSD…) could use them.

None of these two “costs” are paid with free software.

Posted at 1:47 am on Nov 18th, 2009 by Iñaki Silanes

Look at the footprint. Vista by itself can take up more than 16GB, and thats just system files, no flash, java, codecs… but Puppy linux on the other hand takes up 105MB and has all of those.
And where are you people finding these mice that don’t work out of the box? I use the Ubuntu live CD’s all the time for recovery work and I have yet to come across a mouse that didn’t work out of the box.

Posted at 2:49 am on Nov 18th, 2009 by Taylor

@Bob: I’ll install your hardware on Linux for $50 :P

Posted at 5:43 am on Nov 18th, 2009 by IceBrain

OK… I am not a brainiac, I use several O.S. on all sorts of machines. There are pros and cons for all the O.S. out there. I bought a $50.00 laptop from our it dept. that was set-up for win98 – touchpad was non-functioning, sound was not working, O.S. was unstable.
I installed puppylinux and everything works great. I also have a re-furb. desktop with AMD processor dual-booting Vista 64bit and Ubuntu 9.10. – I am frustrated that there is no flash support for my sys. However, I love the ability to switch back and forth due to program compatibility issues. I personally prefer irfanview in windows over gimp in linux just because I am still a bit lazy! I find valid points in all of these arguments, HOWEVER, open-source still is the winner hands down as far as freedom goes. just a newbie

Posted at 7:46 am on Nov 18th, 2009 by Chris

Inaki: I don’t have to buy a new OS when MS obsoletes the old one. I only have to buy if I want the new features.

The problem of new hardware not working with old Windows is a driver problem: one that Linux faces too. My headaches with Linux video and WiFi drivers, and a previous poster’s experience with mouse (mouse!!) drivers vouch for that. Granted, the availability of hardware drivers for Windows doesn’t mean Windows is better; it just means the user experience is better.

A previous pro-Linux poster conceded that GIMP is not a good substitute for Photoshop (which I’ve experienced too). Other pro-Linux posters conceded Flash doesn’t work right.

I love the freedom Linux gives. The first time I used Ubuntu, I was dazzled by how much free software there was and how easy it was to get it. But the bottom line was: I couldn’t get my work (and play) done.

My computer is a tool, and I’m a mercenary with no OS loyalty. I’ll be happy to switch to Linux when it allows me to accomplish everything I can with Windows.

Posted at 3:13 pm on Nov 18th, 2009 by Bob

Hi Bob, I agree with most of what you say. However, I disagree with the naive statement that you only buy a new Windows when you want the new features. That is simply not true.

Since “everybody uses Windows”, and since MS presses hard so that all new computers come with the latest Windows preinstalled, it is really hard to avoid the new Windows enter the market. MS creates, willingly, incompatibilities between the new and the old versions, disguising them as “improvements”. Typically users of the new Windows can interact with the old Windows, but not the other way around. Once a company starts receiving from their partners PowerPoints and DOCs in the new format, they are almost forced to switch to the new Windows, which supports the new Office, which can read the new DOCs. Once the company you work for sends you info in the new DOC format, and you can’t read it at home, or all your friends who bought a laptop with the new Windows preinstalled (willingly or not) send you a funny PowerPoint you can’t open because you have the “old” Office (assuming you care for forwarded PowerPoints), you start to consider switching to the new Windows yourself.

After some time, even the hardware is made specifically for the new Windows, and it could not work in your old Windows. Even software (that is, games) is made for the new Windows. Quickly enough, you are stuck with either keeping your current hardware and software, or “upgrading” to the new Windows to access the new ones. Then, you “upgrade” Windows so the new camera you bought works on it, and end up buying a new CPU and more RAM because otherwise Windows won’t work. ¿Sounds familiar to any reader? Not to any Linux user, I bet.

MS lives from forcing each new software version upon the society, so they will make their best to make the life of those who don’t “upgrade” miserable. More so against those who don’t even use Windows. And each and every copy of Windows in use (bought or “pirated”, it doesn’t matter) is one more gram of gunpowder in their arsenal.

Posted at 1:29 am on Nov 19th, 2009 by Iñaki Silanes

Hi Inaki,

All your issues about hardware drivers and Microsoft Office updates are more damaging to Linux than they are to Windows. Linux HW drivers are usually available later than Windows drivers, are lower quality, and are not as well supported by the manufacturer. And if you care about 100% compatibility with MS Office, Linux isn’t even an option.

Meanwhile, although XP is 8 years old, Office will support it for at least another 5 years (the lifetime of Office 2010) and hardware vendors are still supporting it. So are gaming software companies.

It’s true I can’t experience the joy of using Windows ME with the latest hardware and software. So I need to pay money to avoid using an 11 year old OS. It’s worth it to me.

I realize all the strikes against Linux are due to its market share compared to Windows. And I’m cheering for Linux – I really am. But I’m tired of Linux lovers treating Microsoft as evil and Windows users as brain damaged. There are compelling reasons to use Windows, and Linux simply can’t counter them yet.

When I was younger, I refused to buy an S-100 8080 based PC because I wanted the cleaner architecture of a 6809. Back then, I was willing to endure a lack of software and hardware for the philosophical joy of using a superior system. I’m too old for that now. I’m using a crappy x86 with a badly architected operating system. But it does what I want it to.

Posted at 5:32 pm on Nov 19th, 2009 by Bob

Bob, you say that the issues I mention are more damaging to Linux (and it’s users) than to Windows users. It’s just reasonable that the bulk of “evil” tactics from MS aims to hurt users of other systems, to benefit their own (system, not users).

But I fail to see how some points I mention do not harm Windows users. How do forced software upgrades not harm you? How does being forced to buy new hardware not harm you? How does dosification (“dosed” release) of software and hardware novelties not harm you? They hurt us all alike!

One could argue that each Windows release requiring faster and bigger machines has indeed boosted the CPU/RAM/HD development. Well, sadly that’s simply a myth. Windows requiring increasingly more powerful machines has allowed hw makers to market new hw that *just* supports the new Windows. And with that, they had their sales assured, no need to develop further. E.g., if Windows N requires 1GB of RAM, and two years later Windows N+1 requires 2GB of RAM, hw makers can spend the 2 years developing just the 1GB increase in RAM, and expect to sell their stuff. If Windows N+1 didn’t require (read “force the user to buy”) 2GB of RAM, but just 1GB, then the hw makers would need to give the market something more meaty than a mere 2x increase in RAM so that it would appeal so much to the customers that they would buy it. Small improvements would not be sexy enough to afford marketing them.

Posted at 1:58 am on Nov 20th, 2009 by Iñaki Silanes

The forced software upgrade problem is exaggerated. Windows XP, released in 2001, will be able to run the latest MS Office until at least 2014. XP runs the latest hardware and will continue to do so for at least a couple more years. I’m satisfied with that lifetime.

And doesn’t Linux have the same issue? Does a Linux kernel from 1999 run today’s hardware and software? The issue is not obsolescence, the issue is that MS charges and Ubuntu doesn’t. My pain is not in having to upgrade, but in having to pay. And $150 every 12 years is acceptable to me (that amortizes to $12.50/year).

As for Office’s new .docx format: “evil” Microsoft offers a free compatibility pack so that people who are using Office 2000 or 2003 can read and write the files. No one who bought Office since 1999 is being forced to upgrade before at least 2014.

As for requiring faster CPUs and more RAM: people buy them more for playing DVDs, playing Flash, playing high-frame rate games, producing videos, etc., than they do for supporting the latest OS. Linux isn’t magic; it won’t let you watch HD video on a 500MHz Pentium with 512MB RAM any better than Windows will.

A more damaging argument against Windows is that when I want to buy a new computer (so I can watch HD video or play Crysis) I need to buy a new Windows OS. This is, in fact, the only time I buy Windows, and it’s once every 3 or 4 years. And yes, I’m annoyed that I can’t (legally) transfer my OS from one PC to another.

Posted at 6:39 am on Nov 20th, 2009 by Bob