Uhm, not to be a pedant, but I believe you meant “succeeding Jaunty Jackalope which was released in April of this year”

Yawn………this is a hack how?

I’ve tried Ubuntu a few times, and I’ve really tried to like it, but I can’t. I keep going back to Windows. James’ comment about problems with Flash highlights why: things just don’t work on Linux.

As for Windows’ stability: I’ve never had problems with it. I have a firewall, I don’t have anti-virus software, and I haven’t been infected by a virus since I got my first PC in 1980. I honestly don’t know what people are complaining about.

Bob, I agree with you and have similar feelings. I have seen what the big deal is, and I always find myself trying out each new ubuntu release, and then finding that something does not want to work.

Then the solution requires a whole new skill set just to make a web cam or printer function.

XP Professional isint going to leave my computers anytime soon it would seem.

@Chip, I respect your decision, but it is equally vexing in the opposite perspective: when you have an engineering degree and program for a living (I’m not implying you don’t, I have no idea) and you use windows and see a very basic component malfunction (i.e. destabilization due to spyware, or many of the typical annoyances with proprietary software like “it doesn’t do this with the $50 version, for that you need the $100 version which expires in 1 year” ) it pisses you off to no end. You wonder, “why can’t a huge company fix a basic problem like [this]“. To me, the Linux annoyances are understandable, whereas MS has no excuse to bumble on certain things.

@Bob
“I don’t have anti-virus software, and I haven’t been infected by a virus”

Good to know AV software is pointless. Unless of course, not all viruses are designed to completely fuck things up. Some viruses, shockingly, were crafted to make money.

You could be part of a botnet, how would you know?

So, Linux grew on me. Like many others I simply refused saying “I don’t want to dick around with permissions, and trying to find drivers to make this, that or the other work”. I’ve since grown up.

I realised that as will all things Open Source it is the community that drives it. You pick any decent open source piece of software, and behind it you don’t find a team of paid developers being told what bits of new code to add, you find a group of people who enjoy what they do, more than likely have a huge stake in the software (probably because it grew out of a need for something they were passionate about) and if you are not afraid of getting your hands a little dirty, fixes can be made VERY quickly.

There are two types of people out there, consumers and Linux users. :P

Yeah, that is probably one of the other great attractions that I later found with Linux.

Its like mud, throw it any old system and it usually sticks.

@pedants. So I didn’t proof read my earlier post. I only just got up, sue me.

I tried to use Ubuntu a few years back until an ‘automatic’ software update botched my system completely and rendered my machine useless for several days while the moderators of the forums bumbled around making excuses. I think that the ‘forced development cycle’ is rather pointless if you can’t keep out major bugs like that. I’ll admit that small bugs will make their way in regardless of design rigor, but that was a bit much.

Which is why Debian still wins hands down.. ;)

Two things are keeping a windows partition on my drive.

First is DirectX. Wine just doesn’t cut it for games. There seams to always be quirks or the game just won’t run. OpenCL isn’t really a good enough substitute for most developers to choose it over Microsoft’s offerings.

The second is that with Windows I get to talk to the hot sounding Indian chick every time I have to activate a fresh install, someday she will marry me.

I was amazed with Ubuntu the last time I swapped hardware around. I swapped motherboards, turned the power on and went to get coffee to get me through installing two OS’s. When I came back it was at the gnome desktop working as well as ever, windows failed miserably as I was expecting it to.

So, Windows grew on me. Like many others I simply refused saying “I don’t want to dick around with permissions dialogs, and trying to find good antivirus software so my computer continues to work”. I’ve since grown up.

I realised that as will all things Closed Source it is the community that drives it. You pick any decent closed source piece of software, and behind it you don’t find a team of unpaid developers arbitrarily deciding what bits of new code to add, you find a group of people who are being paid for what they do, more than likely have a huge stake in the software (probably because they have stock in the company that sells it) and if you are not afraid of enabling automatic updates, fixes can be made VERY quickly.

There are two types of people out there, neckbeards and Windows users. :P

A few people have mentioned that, whenever they run into a problem with Linux, they can find a solution through Google. The same is usually true of Windows problems.

I really don’t understand the animosity between the Linux and Windows worlds. Is it really a competition? If Bob likes Windows, why should we argue with him?

And I really think that people who see Linux as a “Windows Alternative” are missing the best parts of both operating systems.

I’m a Slackware user and I use Linux because of the Unix Philosophy, not because I think there are problems with Windows. In fact, as a gamer and software developer I also have some Windows machines and, like Bob, have kept them all free of viruses for over a decade. (I know because I run monthly scans with ClamAV.)

Use Linux because you want *nix. Otherwise just learn to keep your Windows box clean.

Linux Ubuntu is great, much more easy to use than Windows.

I have friends that for hacking with Arduino have to install a lot of drivers, like the ones for FTDI IC, for the serialusb. On Linux ubuntu you don’t need to install that drivers and others! it’s just plug the usb devices and they work! — much more quick and easy.

Linux Ubuntu it’s a paradise for hackers ;-)

@xoring

It isn’t just about viruses. Windows itself has never been built well. Its bloatware built on top of bloatware. And don’t even get me started on how Microsoft has never had an original idea of their own.

Linux isn’t yet the true alternative to windows, only because Microshaft insists on bullying everyone into bowing to their ‘standards’. But its getting very close. With every new user and every upgrade its becoming a more viable alternative.

@Orv

See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1152094

If I didn’t play video games and have to interact with windows systems (yes there’s no capitol because it doesn’t deserve one) during the course of my duties as a pen tester/sec analyst I would never even touch it. I have Linux on 4 of my 5 systems and only the wife and son use windows for games they play that I can’t beat wine over the head enough to make work.

God I can’t wait to convert them over as well, I might just buy a new console system for games and tell them to suck it up =P

This is why you don’t post non-hack news on a hack blog.

Bob:”A few people have mentioned that, whenever they run into a problem with Linux, they can find a solution through Google. The same is usually true of Windows problems.”

The other day I found a bug in a library. The solution? Two commands and I had the source code downloaded, one file edit to correct the bug, two commands more to compile and install.

How can someone who defines himself as a hacker be comfortable in something so restrictive as Windows?

@IceBrain

Do you hack your multimeter? Your soldering iron? Do you hack your wrenches and screwdrivers? An operating system is a tool, and if it performs its function well enough, then I won’t mess with it. Personally, I’ve never witnessed a library bug using Windows–perhaps that’s a Linux thing?

We just released a fleet of netbooks running Karmic 9.10 NBR. In the corporate word of windows I think that’s still “hack” worthy.

What’s even better, the “hack” that the IT dept used to fix the only issue(ish) thing that has came up.

Releasing a fleet of anything on windows has been and will always be riddled with little “windows” issues.

Open source will have theirs too, but in the past couple years, they’ve cut that down, a lot. Add to that the quicker ability of software workarounds or fixes – not having to wait for another company to write something – and adoption is accelerating.

Word out to the BSD comment though – an important part of Open Source is that kernel diversity. The fonzy reference is a bit close to accurate too. Ubuntu probably isn’t a hack for this crowd.

I’m sure they’ve all been using Linux for a while now…

for years i wanted a linux sustem, but because of my restriction to dial-up internet, i could never do anything with the os once installed. once i finally got DSL, i headed straight for ubuntu. after weeks of searching google, posting on forums, and pulling my hair out, i gave up and went back to xp.

for me, at least, the learning curve was so great that it was impossible to complete even the most basic computing functions without searching online for a solution. i never figured out how to mount an external hard drive, never got wine to run any programs that accessed the dvd drive, never could get my mouse’s middle button to work, etc. linux might be a great os for developers, software engineers, and IT pros, but for anyone who’s not interested in typing commands into the command prompt that they copied from a google search, i say that windows and mac are the only choice so far.
show me a linux distro that can run windows executibles in a VM without fuss, utilize hardware such as modems, media keyboards and mice and external drives without user intervention beyond selection of make/model, and one that only requires user command line intervention when a GUI component is malfunctioning. if there is one out there, so help me god, i would switch tonight. i’m all for open source, but only when the software is useful, and for me i still haven’t found a linux distro that is.

It’s not that I think Windows is fine as it is. Of course it has it’s problems (so does Linux).

My point is that by categorizing Linux as a “Windows alternative” you’re missing the grander picture, and coloring the argument in favor of Windows. Simple proof: Ubuntu. It’s one of the most bloated and inconsistent Linux distros because it’s focused on being a “Windows alternative”.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have Slackware and Gentoo which clearly care more about leveraging the power of UNIX heritage rather than providing a an alternative to Windows users. As a result their distributions are leaner and more stable.

Trying to make Linux into a “better Windows” will just cause Linux to inherit the same problems as Windows because people will have the wrong expectations from the onset.

Linux began as an alternative to UNIX and it has succeeded in leveraging the strengths of UNIX and even extending them.

Use Linux because you want *nix; not because you want a better Windows.

@and i’m a pc
Um… when’s the last time you’ve tried ubuntu? I remember just a few years ago I had to sacrifice a chicken to get wireless working. Last night, however, I installed 9.10 on several computers (netbook, laptop, and desktop), and everything worked out of the box.

I used openBSD for awhile years ago. Jesus that is a tuff nut to crack…Now the installs don’t take three days and two other computers to figure out, but i still wont migrate off of windows. My system is clean and efficient. All my computers always have been. Know your system and you wont wonder why about a problem anymore, you just know. The problem i have with linux systems is how much time it takes to get anything to work. Its gets old real fast. The automation is great and you can do alot with it. I just don’t do any of those things. I don’t have youthful enthusiasm anymore. I can’t just say, ‘hey im gonna make my own web crawler today because its fun’ and then stay up all night doing it. I need a reason. A real reason. All I do on my computer anymore is read and play games. Sure linux has games, but I can’t play l4d2 competitively on it now can I?

Oh and my stance on open source software…I have both gimp and photoshop. Gimp is a pain, photoshop is not. Doesn’t hurt that I know someone that uses it for a living. The only open source software that is on par with its proprietary counterpart is openoffice. I’ll stop using that when you tear it away from my died twice, frozen, brain encrusted hands.

I say again. If you know your system, you will never have problems you cant fix. Windows definitely included (loved windows ME, still have it on a p3).

*nix is great because you can change everything on the system, often times by simple altering a text file. Like “nano ~/.bashrc” and you can alter the way your shell will act. Change everything from color coding to adding new aliases & variables. Write scripts using bash commands rather than an advanced language and cut down on development time.

I really don’t know if you can get deep down into the system on a Windows box like you can in *nix, but then most people don’t need or want to.

For the most part the different distributions are only skin deep, underneath its still Linux.

As for me, still waiting for F12. >:)

Hooray, another iteration of EZModo Linux.

No one cares.

You open the update manager and it shows an Upgrade button. You don’t get options like encrypting the home directory, or grub 2. However you can install these yourself if you desire.

Just shut up and like it

HA HA HA The OS so good they can’t give it away lol. Linux is still a ways away from me dropping a box off at my grandma’s house and not worrying. I guess it would be cool because she would not be able to install ANY software without learning a handful of code first. So everybody get on your XP machines and DL the latest version of bloat (yes linux is getting fat in the pants these days). Besides that, my wife damn near left me after dual booting her laptop. Her exact words,”so is it a desktop program or something because that is all i see it do.” No honey you dumb bitch, you simply have to open a console type in a bunch of random letters with pluses and minuses after and hit enter. And thanks to all of the linux open sourcers who still find time to write virii for Windows amongst their busy forum schedule. My final verdict: Linux will be friendly enough for the living room by 2012 and will neatly coincide with the end of the world simply becase someone hit a random -d instead of being able to just push OK.

It is so a hack! Or at least Ubuntu has been screwing up something new with every release since 7.10 (I run Fluxbox, as Linux is supposedly about choices and bloat aside, I hate the current Gnome and KDE). I’ll probably give it a try but I’ve been thinking that since I’m already hacking config files I haven’t seen since 2004, I might as well run Slackware and at least get a fast system.

That new windows is actually rather sweet, though the new movie maker doesn’t like my video card.

… and as for photoshop… GIMP is not a photoshop replacement! That should be obvious to anyone who’s used both. It’s more than good enough for most people and way better value than Elements (and while it works a bit differently, if you have a brain it’s no harder to learn from scratch than PS and in some ways I prefer the interface) … but if you’re a photographer or a designer PS does a number of important things that GIMP can’t, and a whole lot of other things a lot more easily.

carzRfun:

I agree but the windows users are the bigger loosers in this thread because the post is about a linux distro yet they felt compelled to troll.

well straight out of the box I just installed Ubuntu and my mouse claibration is off by a few inches, hmmm now Im searching the forums for a way to fix this.

Shit. I don’t really get why people treat operating systems like sacramental items. Use what works for you and for the job.

NOT EVERYTHING ON HACK A DAY HAS TO BE A HACK. i mean, TECHNICALLY, they’re only obligated to deliver 1 hack every day.

I know I won’t be able to add much to a “Windows vs. Linux” debate, and that whatever I add will be of little use, but still… I would like to make some points worth considering before making such comparisons:

1) OS vs external agents. A good example are games, Photoshop or AutoCAD. Windows can’t be considered “better” because more SW is developed for it. SW companies make games and programs for Windows because they see a bigger market and thus more profit. Period. If suddenly they made games only for Linux, it would become “better”? External agents should be that: external. If someone coerces you to choose an orange over an apple, you could abide. But you could never say that “because” of that, oranges are better (or worse).

2) Particular cases vs. the general case. It is heart-touching that some Windows users claim to be virus-free even without an antivirus. But let’s keep perspective. Virtually all malware out there exploit weaknesses in Windows, not Linux. Virtually all botnets are Windows machines. Virtually all mission-critical machines in banks or governments use Unix or some derivative, not Windows (no, I don’t have sources for my statistics, but we all know them to be true). Particular cases are just bits in the general statistic, which is the data that counts.

3) Relative vs. absolute numbers. One could argue that Windows suffers more malware than Linux because it’s more extended: Windows has more users and more malware. However, comparing two sets of absolute numbers with a different base is of little use. Now, how prominent is the malware incidence *relative* to its user base? Linux users being around 1% of the total computer users is a common estimate, so it is a safe assumption that Windows has between 50 and 200 times more users than Linux. Let’s say 200. Now, Windows is infected with 200 times more trojans or viruses (only) than Linux? There are (only) 200 times more Windows botnets? On the “good” side: there is 200 times more software for Windows? (remember Debian alone has over 25k packages) There are 200 times more Windows computers in the top500.org than Linux ones (from the top of my head, like >80% Linux, <1% Windows)? Why is it that the relative numbers are below 200x for the "good" things, and above 200x for the "bad" things?

I have installed this release on my acer laptop along my vista ultimate edition and so for no real problems to mention other then the flash issues everyone seems to be having. other then that it is very stable and asthetically pleasing.

Definately a Ubuntu fan. As for it being a hack, maybe not. However, you can hack the crap out of ubuntu down to every last character of code. I don’t know how much of Windows code can be modified by the average user. Also ubuntu can be used as a hack, for example the live CD can be used for recovery or as a benchmark for testing hardware. There are definately better distro’s based on one’s needs though. Puppy linux is my personal favorite. Fully functional OS in a 100MB ISO. I see this as relevant to this website because think of all the applications that Ubuntu can be used for. Like many others have said it’s a tool, and a lot of the hacks are how to make or acquire tools. But then again this audience may not be the right crowd since most hackers probably learned code on a *nix terminal. Like telling a bunch of carpenters that there is this thing called a saw and it cuts stuff.
Side note, I wonder just out of humor how many windows viruses were written and compiled on a *nix machine.

to all the haters out there that think it takes some miracle to make something work in ubuntu, i have this release, and it is fairly simple if you are anything more than a brainless window licker who bought a mac cause commercials tell you they’re better. i mean seriously, even getting things to work in windows is harder than with ubuntu 9.10. it’s called synaptic package manager. it can find anything and everything to fix or tweak your computer. my logitech mouse wasn’t working, so i loaded my sunaptic, typed logitech, read the description for the files i could choose, and installed the right ones. on windows you would have to look for the files yourself. it doesn’t get much easier or user friendly than linux. karmic koala has my vote.

Very good point on the mouse thing, Bob! However, I think that you also miss one point. When you pay 150$ to “avoid hassles” and use Windows, you are paying more than money. You are paying with your freedom, and you are paying by degrading the development prospects in IT. The outrage or mock the previous sentence could cause in the reader stresses the carelessness and unconsciousness with which that is done.

You pay with your freedom, because not only you abide by draconian EULAs, but you also fall in an spiral of dependence of MS and MS-compatible products. You will have to buy whatever they put in front of you. If MS chooses to obsolesce your current Windows version, you’ll have to buy the next one. If the new version requires new hardware, you will have to buy it. If MS decides that Windows will not be compatible with such and such protocol or software (e.g. different command line shells, or file systems beyond NTFS) that’s that, you have no say.

You also hinder IT development because MS is not there to make the World a happy place. They are there for the money (which I don’t criticize, but I feel no need to dance to their tune either). Consider the following: if current Windows supports say 1GB hard disks, and suddenly MS discovers how to support 1PB, rest assured that next Windows version will not support beyond 1TB. Then, the following one will support 1PB. If they can charge you twice for the same development cost, they will. Of course, since “everyone uses Windows”, the hardware makers will not produce HDs beyond 1TB until Windows supports them, even though Linux (or Mac, or BSD…) could use them.

None of these two “costs” are paid with free software.

@Bob: I’ll install your hardware on Linux for $50 :P

Inaki: I don’t have to buy a new OS when MS obsoletes the old one. I only have to buy if I want the new features.

The problem of new hardware not working with old Windows is a driver problem: one that Linux faces too. My headaches with Linux video and WiFi drivers, and a previous poster’s experience with mouse (mouse!!) drivers vouch for that. Granted, the availability of hardware drivers for Windows doesn’t mean Windows is better; it just means the user experience is better.

A previous pro-Linux poster conceded that GIMP is not a good substitute for Photoshop (which I’ve experienced too). Other pro-Linux posters conceded Flash doesn’t work right.

I love the freedom Linux gives. The first time I used Ubuntu, I was dazzled by how much free software there was and how easy it was to get it. But the bottom line was: I couldn’t get my work (and play) done.

My computer is a tool, and I’m a mercenary with no OS loyalty. I’ll be happy to switch to Linux when it allows me to accomplish everything I can with Windows.

Hi Inaki,

All your issues about hardware drivers and Microsoft Office updates are more damaging to Linux than they are to Windows. Linux HW drivers are usually available later than Windows drivers, are lower quality, and are not as well supported by the manufacturer. And if you care about 100% compatibility with MS Office, Linux isn’t even an option.

Meanwhile, although XP is 8 years old, Office will support it for at least another 5 years (the lifetime of Office 2010) and hardware vendors are still supporting it. So are gaming software companies.

It’s true I can’t experience the joy of using Windows ME with the latest hardware and software. So I need to pay money to avoid using an 11 year old OS. It’s worth it to me.

I realize all the strikes against Linux are due to its market share compared to Windows. And I’m cheering for Linux – I really am. But I’m tired of Linux lovers treating Microsoft as evil and Windows users as brain damaged. There are compelling reasons to use Windows, and Linux simply can’t counter them yet.

When I was younger, I refused to buy an S-100 8080 based PC because I wanted the cleaner architecture of a 6809. Back then, I was willing to endure a lack of software and hardware for the philosophical joy of using a superior system. I’m too old for that now. I’m using a crappy x86 with a badly architected operating system. But it does what I want it to.

The forced software upgrade problem is exaggerated. Windows XP, released in 2001, will be able to run the latest MS Office until at least 2014. XP runs the latest hardware and will continue to do so for at least a couple more years. I’m satisfied with that lifetime.

And doesn’t Linux have the same issue? Does a Linux kernel from 1999 run today’s hardware and software? The issue is not obsolescence, the issue is that MS charges and Ubuntu doesn’t. My pain is not in having to upgrade, but in having to pay. And $150 every 12 years is acceptable to me (that amortizes to $12.50/year).

As for Office’s new .docx format: “evil” Microsoft offers a free compatibility pack so that people who are using Office 2000 or 2003 can read and write the files. No one who bought Office since 1999 is being forced to upgrade before at least 2014.

As for requiring faster CPUs and more RAM: people buy them more for playing DVDs, playing Flash, playing high-frame rate games, producing videos, etc., than they do for supporting the latest OS. Linux isn’t magic; it won’t let you watch HD video on a 500MHz Pentium with 512MB RAM any better than Windows will.

A more damaging argument against Windows is that when I want to buy a new computer (so I can watch HD video or play Crysis) I need to buy a new Windows OS. This is, in fact, the only time I buy Windows, and it’s once every 3 or 4 years. And yes, I’m annoyed that I can’t (legally) transfer my OS from one PC to another.

Thank you Alan!
my flash works!
and thats why i love Ubuntu
Alan says get N file to fix flash…10 seconds later my flash works…when i upgraded from 9.04 to 9.10 it took a while downloading…BUT did i need disks? or to back up? or for that matter new hardware? hell no because its written better.
if i want games i can go use whats called a video game console…kinda what they are made for…
also there is alot of people that hate M$ dues to xbox too…like vista its paying way too much for something thats gonna break and is locked down (read xbox banning) you dont see wii users getting banned for the SD card hacks do ya?
(then again you dont see good games on the wii either …IMHO)