Im already bothered!!!!!!!!!!! BY THIS CRAP!!!!!!

This is about as sad as those people on youtube who think they have made some sort of perpetual motion machine but all they really made was a wheel that turns for a while and then stops. I hope no-one in the hack-a-day community buys into this shit.

I would have liked to see him try to build the device, rather than abstract it to some principles and building a pointless device to test those.

As for calling all this ‘crap’, well, yeah, you’re probably right. I’m not in favor of just writing it off though. If it’s not a closed system, it may leech energy from somewhere else.

From the way the principle looks, I’d say that have a device on their hands that is excellent at demagnetizing permanent magnets, and converting that to mechanical energy. It may even be useful.

I was just going to say, maybe it is demagnetizing the magnets to generate mechanical energy.

It would seem like free energy until one considers that it took energy to magnetize the Neodymium magnets.

JL Naudin…how many times has this name been posted online with the idea of some “miraculous” perpetual energy machine. Now, I’m the first to say that the only impossible thing is the impossible. However the things he associates with routinely fall into the HIGHLY improbable category. “Perpetual energy” may exist in some form, but it is probably at a subatomic level where the outside forces that prevent it at normal scales don’t exist. I will say that I’m all for trying to build a perpetual energy machine, however posting on a site like Hack-A-Day without a working model seems a bit pretentious and like an obvious attempt to lend credibility to an unlikely result. In the future, please try to post about those things which have a firm foothold in reality.

No system is perfect. They all loose energy. Even the known universe will one day run out of entropy and fail.

“the rotation axis of the rotor must be frictionless”

/thread

It doesn’t work because in order to release the magnet the coil has to generate a force and do work on the magnet against the pull of the permanent magnets. Importantly, this extra work is only done _if the coil is released_, since work done is force times distance. This work presents itself as an e.m.f generated in the coil opposing the current traveling through it, due to lenz’s law.

His last demonstration experiment is therefore invalid because he only tests it with the magnet present or not present, not with the magnet being released from the coil.

Also note that in any case where he demonstrates supposed ‘free energy’ he measures only current, not voltage, which is where the extra power draw would manifest itself in this case.

This can happen because, if he is driving the coils in the motor in the same way as his demonstration model, he is creating a current source, which adjusts its voltage output to keep the current running through it constant, instead of the normal situation where voltage is constant, and current varies.

This, in fact, accounts for all the effects he notes in his experiments, although is also depends on where he is measuring the voltages he quotes on his graphs, which he doesn’t mention. If they are, as I suspect, the voltage across the power rails to his driving circuit, then the ‘free energy’ he is noting is simply being diverted from the MOSFET, which would dissipate less heat as the load on the motor increased.

Steorn are con artists, plain and simple. They always reveal just enough to pull in new investors, but that’s it.

@rcxdude, @Ken
Right-o. Actually makes sense.

So if I have this straight, the illusion of free power would come from the electromagnetic coil, which allows the permanent magnets to freely move away… Which looks like no effort, but in fact requires at least as much energy as that movement provides…?

That said, I still don’t believe in instantly damning to obscurity anyone claiming to have over-unity. Although the claim should then be “We’ve got over-unity based on all inputs we know. Where’s the energy coming from?” rather than calling it free energy. I do realize Steorn has a reputation, though :)

Aw leave them alone. €12M in investments in Steorn is a work of genius, and think what a great learning experience it will be for the investors. Perhaps after losing their shirts they will crack a physics textbook.

I happen to think it is an ideal Hackaday offering. It made me giggle, has a pretty build and oodles of schadenfreude.

Jean-Louis Naudin, is well know as a spammer and madman in most of the french speaking physic forums, bulletin boards, mailing list, etc.

If you listen to him, he already realized cold fusion, water thermocracking, water motor, etc.

All his website is priceless fun: http://jnaudin.free.fr/

“Look i just put XXX Kw of electric power in those electrodes and this little quantity of water, bubbles ! It must be cold fusion or hydrogen after water thermo-cracking, … ”

“No, it’s just water vapor.”

unplug it and let it power itself! that is about as simple as can be of a OU test. If it keeps going and going and going, i’ll bite. on the another note – while I think steorn is truly a con, Naudin seems to truly believe its out there.

what you talking about Steorn is not prepertual machine, it a motor without back emf and its torture is not proportional to current.

Hmm judge the company by how successful they are =) The Wikipedia link states that Net income is
€ -1,794,648 (2005)[1] That’s pretty good right? With revenues in excess of 900$ !!!!

You’re all missing the point here. The motor itself is a good hackaday candidate because the person made it without plans or anything. That sort of “i see this thing, i’m gonna try and make one myself” is awesome. Unless I’ve not read enough and there actually are plans and it’s just one big perpetual motion wank.

Yes perpetual motion is a load of crap and so is most of this guy’s website, but he’s custom-made a funky-looking unusual motor. That’s pretty cool.

The only thing perpetual about this is respectable sources continually giving credence to this nonsense.

Hack-a-day, why?

“Hack-a-day, why?”
Maybe because when all of you incensed deacons of thermodynamics flock to the comments to defend your holy principles, Hackaday gets more pageviews and therefore more ad revenue. :p

Anyway, I think the devices these people come up with are interesting. Their explanations of them might be incorrect, but you don’t really have to join their cult to build their machines. Maybe if more hackadayers build the machines and ran the tests to disprove their theories their explanations would receive less attention.

I’m going to stop reading Hack-a-day to 3 months, one for posting this, one for not saying it’s fiction, and one for not retracting it.

please retract it so I can only skip 2 months.

I might miss something interesting in those 3 months but it’s worth saving myself the frustration of reading this drivel.

Interesting post! Glad to see that somebody thinks outside the box; Tesla thought he could power the whole world wirelessly, and he didn’t have a huge coal plant either… Is this post really so irrational?

derp has a point. I hope this was the basis of the post rather than the result of a believer of the greedy and beckoning finger of JLN

TANSTAAFL

Learn it, live it.

@Alberich

People say incorrect things all the time; catchphrases should never be taken as truth.

It’s disgusting to read an article like this in Hackaday.

The comparation with the belief of the flat Earth is completelly absurd.

shame on you Hackaday.

so for couple years HAD mostly posted projects all alike: “software” overcomplicated impractical solution written as for mainframe, run on oversimplified 8bit micro and everyone cool (who’s not are trolls), but this one stinks?
Well it is a hobby too, and most this projects do work to some degree, for example Bedini motor does recover old batteries, and it good for time spending because that what hobby is for
And before telling about thermodynamic principles and laws of conversion maybe you should read about them first? It might be surprise to you but they apply only to isolated systems, and we don’t live in a jar after all

I don’t care what the rest of these people are saying I like something new and different on this site once in a while. Thank You HackADay for this.

@Devin

It is, among other things, a simple expression of the fact that physicists are going to point and laugh at you if you claim to have a free energy device.

Nothing is free, and especially not energy.

@Alberich so how much you pay for heat?, you did type somehow so I assume it is not absolute 0 there

Its an interesting article. Free energy claims aside.

please next send us to that website that proves professor farnsworths dark matter engine that instead of moving a ship through the universe instead moves the universe around the ship.

@wingnut
I get 65mpg driving 60mph in a diesel…

Plus that website Rizla++ posted is fucking awesome…I love it.

To all of you assholes that claim “hackaday never posts anything good anymore” why dont you shut the fuck up and hack something, then there will be something to post, and then we can call you a fag for not coming up with something ingenious… or because you use an arduino…which is another thing, wtf are you snobs complaining about the arduino for? If you hate it so much, what kind of boards are you using??? Nothing obviously, because if you would bother to learn to code then we would have an abundance of hacks and you would have nothing to complain about…. You know most of you sound like? Whiney little bitch ass twelve year olds.

That’s stupid!

@Targen:
Thanks for the informative wikipedia link!

ok, this is pseudo science everybody knows it,
but it is a nice setup that is NOT AN ARDUIONO BLINKING LED, thank you HAD

Why People assume that free energy mean something from nothing ? In such projects free means as in a beer, you dont pay for it, who do you shouldn’t care, just as you don’t care about billions trees and living creatures that give their lives over millions years to become oil, It wasn’t you who pump raw material into Earth after all you just taking it out spending some energy on work to get much more back, just tap into already existing source. And don’t forget that just 100 years ago there wasn’t much at all, almost all science developed in pas century. Just recently we get tiny boost on viewing the world thanks to tools. And it known that even with help off all tools, we can detect such miserable percent of universe; after all we see only 3 dimensions when most modern theories require at least 9 for physics to work. So how can anyone be sure that in past 5 generations we discovered all forms of energy? Is it so hard to imagine that there is unknown sources, and it can be used just as we use all energy known to us, and can be converted to work or other energy just as electricity or heat.
Don’t forget humans actually use only free energy (sun, potential energy created by nature(rivers, wind) , heat, and dead plans which is sort of potential energy too, even atomic sources was not created by us)around by spending some work to get it, we did not fill in any of the resources we tap into and no laws of physics is broken by this routine process

just read the link, guy wrote good report on what he get and what he think this might be, yes ferrite ring saturates and bloc magnetic field of permanent magnet under it so torque produced only by permanent magnet and to saturate ring constant amount of current is used independent from load instead as in most traditional motors current directly respond to load

Okay, there’s an obvious solution to this, and you all know what it is.

First one to submit an article with an Arduino-controlled perpetual motion machine wins.

All I’ve got to say is holy shit hackaday you’re shitting me. I’ve lost the majority of the little respect I’ve had left for this blog as I’ve noticed the quality of the posts go downhill recently with some of the new bloggers.

I’ve been keeping track of them for a while, largely because they’re basically the only company who’s actually successfully brought forward their completely wrong ideas so far for so long, and I think part of it is that really they’re being a lot less stubborn than most of the other free energy idiots out there and are being very reasonable people when it comes to proving or disproving that their system works.

I read in one of their most recent news releases that they were finally going to release their prototype of a system with “coefficient of performance > 1.0″. For investors (most of them stupid without any science training), this sounds like breaking conservation of energy, but for anyone who knows a bit of thermo, this is a number related to heat pumps. You can have COPs of > 1.0; in fact, good heat pumps typically have COPs >> 1.0. I can’t quite figure out how it works with their contraption (as is often true with claimed perpetual energy systems–they’re complicated enough for people to believe they work without analysis), but I suspect they’re somehow demangetizing the magnets and taking energy out of that.

So, I actually suspect that they’ve finally realized after all this work that they haven’t in fact “discovered” perpetual energy (if you learn the physics and do the math, conservation of energy is necessary, and without it, suddenly everything we use to design engines and chemical reactions suddenly isn’t supposed to work. . .but they do, so I’m pretty darn sure you’re wrong if you still think you can break conservation of energy). Now, they’re slowly and subtly trying to break this news to investors–the fact is, though, whatever heat pump they’ve designed, it sure as hell looks pretty novel and pretty neat if it’s based on magnetism. If you look at their site, too, you’ll notice that suddenly they’ve got a bunch of pages dedicated to selling magnetic bearings and magnetic measurement systems. I think they’re getting ready for an alternate game plan (or finding ways to make money once people realize they haven’t found the nonexistant “free energy”).

As previous posters have stated, just because a device appears to produce more energy than it consumes does not mean it violates the laws of thermodynamics.

Now, its extremely unlikely that we can get to it by designing convoluted electromagnetic motors, there is likely to be an energy source that is both simple to tap, and to use, but we haven’t discovered it yet.

Some of the most overarching scientific discoveries have been purely accidental. It seems likely that someone will find an amazingly efficient energy source while attempting to create something completely different.

Oh, and that flat earth article was quite enlightening, very good read. I wish I could go back and slap my elementary school teachers for some of that crap about Columbus. Then again, I already knew that.

Free energy does exist and Steorn’s claim does hold, and its very easy to test it on your own.

Naudin has been kind enough to provide a circuit diagram to illustrate it. He calls the experiment “S2Gen” and more details can be found here:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm

I just built one myself yesterday and posted some information about it on my blog:

http://freeorbo.wordpress.com/

As well you’ll find some articles that may help you understand the mechanism behind this effect.

Before you write this all off, it would be smart to build a unit or find a friend who can help you make one. It’s not very difficult to do.

The S2Gen experiment illustrates some of the key points in a very understandable way: the interaction between the toroid and the magnet, the time-variant nature of the effect, and in fact why it can be clearly shown to be free energy.

All of the above respondents are clearly intelligent people and should be able to easily understand the results and see that there is in fact new energy in the system.

Strangely, I found this article interesting and somewhat amusing. As others have said novel electric motor designs are cool.

Now, I wouldn’t vilainize HAD for posting this article but I would, however, love to ream them for continually horrible writeups. I suppose they are still training new staff or something, but honestly some of these post are so ignorant that their offensive to their content authors their linking.

By reading one line only you can determine that this is pure bullshit.

“the rotation axis of the rotor must be frictionless”

The traditional PMM-problem.

Use an odd number of magnets and an even number of coils, and you’ll have yourself a weird-ass stepper motor.

@threepointone : Think of this post as a good intellectual exercise about applying theory in a correct way. Discussions like these show other people (with less experience) what is good and bad interpretation of electromagnetic theory.

What the heck is everyone’s problem? It’s not like HaD is reporting this as real science or anything. It’s an interesting thing (definitely a hack) and something to laugh at. This is not a journal of engineering – it’s a blog that post cool electronics/hacks for entertainment.

The people who say they’re going to stop reading HaD crack me up. Start your own blog. No one cares if you stop reading.

Mmm… I think I’ll use this together with the flux capacitor to kick start the warp drive in my starship. Who needs matter/antimatter reactions? :P

SparkyGSX: I agree, this motor is cross between existing systems using rare-earth magnets. The motor itself is not new. Reading the site, I see basic testing with multiple tries at building the contraption. He tried and failed, but at least he tried which is worth noting on Hack-a-Day. The experiment did lack mathematical proofs and many basic experiments engineers would run. At least he got to use his and show off his expensive Fluke Meter.

Well, I’m going to go ahead and say it.

This thing works!

I totally just built one, installed it in my car, used it to power the warp drive and force field (which I also built with parts from Jaycar) and flew to Alpha Centuari, to have tea with a Xorbakian named Fred.

You guys can argue all you want about it, with all your “physics laws” and proven science, but the fact remains, I just used it to fly across the stars.

How awesome was that?

PS. I’m thinking of using it to power my Flux Capacitor so I can travel through time and see a T-rex, anyone got ideas on that?