Peachy Printer Collapses, Investor Built A House Instead Of A Printer

The Peachy Printer, originally a crowdfunding campaign for a $100 stereolithography 3D printer, is now dead in the water.[Rylan Grayston], the creator of the Peachy Printer, announced that [David Boe] — investor, 50% owner of Peachy Printer, and business partner — had stolen over $300,000 in Kickstarter campaign funds. According to [Rylan], this money was used to build a house.

An example print from the Peachy Printer Kickstarter campaign
An example print from the Peachy Printer Kickstarter campaign

When the Peachy Printer was announced on Kickstarter, it was, by any measure, a game changing product. Unlike other stereolithographic printers like the Form 1 and DLP projector kit printers, the Peachy was cheap. It was also absurdly clever. Instead of using a stepper motor to raise a print out of a vat of resin, the Peachy Printer floated the resin on a vat of salt water. By slowly dripping salt water into this vat, the level of the resin rose up, allowing the galvanometers and laser diode to print the next layer of a 3D object. In our first coverage of the Peachy Printer, everyone was agog at how simple this printer was. It wasn’t a high-resolution printer, but it was a 3D resin printer that only cost $100. Even today, nearly three years after the launch of the Kickstarter campaign, there’s nothing like it on the market.

For the last two years, [Rylan] appeared to have the Peachy Printer in a pseudo-stealth mode. Whispers of the Peachy Printer circled around 3D printer forums, with very little information coming from [Rylan]. For the last year, the Peachy Printer appeared to be just another failed crowdfunded 3D printer. Either [Rylan] didn’t have the engineering chops to take a novel device to market, there were problems with suppliers, or [Rylan] just couldn’t get the product out the door.

In the update published to the Kickstarter campaign, the reason for the failure of Peachy Printer to deliver becomes apparent. The Kickstarter campaign was set up to deliver the funds received – $587,435.73 – directly into [David Boe]’s account. Thirty days after the funds were received, [David] had spent over $165,000. In just over three months, all the Kickstarter funds, save for $200,000 transferred into the Peachy Printer corporate account, were spent by [David].

With no funds to complete the development of the Peachy Printer, [Rylan] looked into alternative means of keeping the company afloat until Kickstarter rewards had shipped. Peachy Printer received two government grants totalling $90,000 and $135,000. In March of 2015, one of [Rylan]’s family members loaned $50,000 to Peachy Printer. A plan to finance the delivery of Kickstarter rewards with new sales – a plan that is usually looked down upon by Kickstarter backers – was impossible, as cost and time required of certifying the laser in the Peachy Printer would have put the company in the red.

Right now, [Rylan] and the Peachy Printer are pursuing repayment from [David Boe], on the basis that Kickstarter reward money is still tied up in the construction of a house. Once the house is complete, the bank will disburse funds from the construction mortgage, and funds can then be transferred from [David] to Peachy Printer.

In all, the Peachy Printer is a mess, and has been since the Kickstarter funds were disbursed to [David]. There is – potentially – a way out of this situation that gets Peachy Printers into the hands of all the Kickstarter backers if the mortgage construction funds come through and production resumes, but that’s a lot of ‘ifs’. Failed Kickstarter projects for 3D printers are nothing new, but [Rylan]’s experience with the Peachy Printer is by far the most well-documented failure of a crowdfunding project we’ve ever seen.

169 thoughts on “Peachy Printer Collapses, Investor Built A House Instead Of A Printer

  1. Embezzlement is a crime. If he was charged the building would stop and unfinished houses get no mortgages.
    A trustee needs to be appointed to prevent money fomr being stolen and the house finished and mortgaged with the funds going to Peachy for those the trustee feel capable to finish it.
    No large law firms. Their feaa would eat the totality of mortgage funds.
    Some trustable person in the area is needed,

    1. Perhaps Rylan has opted to work with David and not send him to jail. Prison may be a fitting punishment, but in the end nobody wins. At least with the liquidation of Davids assets, he will be left with literally nothing, and possibly homeless. Although this legal battle may be long and expensive it’s the least destructive option for the company IMO.

      I do agree that a trustee is usually the best option here, someone that is impartial to the people, but wants the project to succeed. I’m surprised that kickstarter doesn’t require this anymore.

      Another option would be an incorporated account. Lots of tax benefits along with other well known uses. It does come with some caveats when it comes to all the forms and regulations of what you can do with that money, but that’s kind of the point in this situation.

      Wish Rylan and his company all the luck in the world to get his project off the ground. If i were him, i would apply for a working patent asap. With it he could protect his IP rights and possibly license it out to other larger companies to gain capital to re-invest in his ideas.

      1. So you are advising them to spend another $50,000+ on trying to secure a patent or patents (if this is indeed patentable) in multiple jurisdictions and then another $500,000+ to defend it, also in multiple jurisdictions? That sounds like pretty terrible advice given the current issues they are already dealing with. On top of that, the US is now first to file now anyway.

          1. Besides, isn’t it way too late for patents now. Just stopping everything and going on with his life one experience richer would be a better option. As would open sourcing the design.

          2. Not prioritize trying to patent whatever part of this that is potentially patentable when they are currently insolvent? Rightly or wrongly, with a $100 retail unit, they will have to sell a lot of units to justify the patent process.

          3. Sue the ass off that cunt David and strip him of every cent, send the bailiffs over to collect and sell “his” house and his chattel at the bankruptcy auction, finally pee on him when he is lying in the street. That’s what I would do. Gotta move on.

        1. This may well be in the public domain since over a year has passed since publication and the original inventors did not apply for a patent.
          Anyone who patented this now(assuming the P.O. missed the anticipating publication) runs a risk of losing it, if challenged.

        1. In civilised countries, yes, public disclosure generally invalidates patent applications.

          There are less meticulous systems, open for corruption, where you can patent it up to a year after disclosure. I don’t think it’s Canada you can do that in. Maybe if he moved a couple of hundred miles south?

          I’ve heard you can patent rectangles there.

          If you know 3D Printing industry you would know why Bree Pettis is famous and possibly disliked….

          1. You mean Bre Pettis is possibly famous, and definitely disliked? I couldn’t remember who the hell he is/was, but as soon as Google displayed the words MakerBot and Stratasys, I said, “Oh, that douche.”

        2. I would like to bring this to the notice of the public about how i met Anz Jackson Financing PLC after i lost my job and being denied loan by my bank and other financial institution due to my credit score. I could not pay my children’s fees. I was behind on bills, about to be thrown out of the house due to my inability to pay my rent, It was during this period my kids were taken from me by foster care. Then i set out to seek for funds online where i lost $3,670 that i borrowed from friends which i was rip off by two companies. Until i read about: anzjacksonfinancingplc@yahoo.com where i was granted a loan to pay up my debts and to start up a business. You can as well give them a call or text at: +18437769340. Why am i doing this? I am doing this to save as many that are in need of a loan not to be victim of scams on the internet

      2. Patents are pretty much worthless unless you are a multinational with shed loads of money.

        I speak as someone with 3 patents, and someone who has had IP stolen by one of the largest comapnies in the world.

        1. Sorry to hear that mate. He who has the most lawyers wins, unfortunately. Sure, they could have taken the money they spent on lawyers to license your IP fairly, but the lawyers advise against it. ^_^

          1. The actual project that was made by Apple wasn’t Patented, they had no reason to pay for it. Not bitter about it, I just didn’t want someone who “may have” copied my design to get credit / a pay rise out of it.
            You live and learn…

      3. So? Then someone like me – or Ryan – get the opportunity to buy the unfinished house for cents on the dollar; that means that *I* win on a good deal and society wins too because some scum-bag is now in jail!

        It is a *very* thin line from “Opted to work with …” an embezzler to “Colluded with …”! If the fraudster is a socio-path, then he/she will even make a special effort to pin it on everyone else but themselves – honest people are just meat for these characters.

        This “MAD-directive … nobody wins …” is *exactly* the kinds of bullshit that frauds will use to get out of jail. Ryan should really think about who came up with that “Once the house is completed … blah & blah”-idea. Bet David did – and that house will never be “complete”.

        1. Exactly. I was under the impression, at least in the US, it is not up to victims (or accomplices?) to decide if a felony is prosecuted. For sure “nobody wins” when people get away with fraud and it encourages some other con artists that they will likely get away also. Maybe kickstarter and the like need policies that they will lead up a lawsuit in the case of fraud.

    1. It seems like a lack of incorporation led to this. Funds dispursement should never have been set up to be paid to an individual. At the least I would have expected an LLC with accounts where transactions need two signatures.

    2. The CEO lacked assertiveness and was too trusting. This was a planned theft indeed. I suspect he will want his lawyers fees paid from the stolen funds. This should not happen. He should be held to account with threat of charges if not compliant. What is the deadline to file charges of theft?

      1. “This was a planned theft indeed.”

        I would probably agree here. Playing Devil’s advocate, though: if we ignore the fact that he can’t just freely ‘borrow’ that money, he also may have just not had any idea how friggin’ difficult it is to build a house, and then when construction got bogged down and he couldn’t get a mortgage quickly enough, things totally fell through.

        So it may not have been planned *theft* (in his eyes). Don’t get me wrong, still completely illegal. However, on the plus side, at least the money was used in asset construction, so theoretically there’s value to recover. I mean, if he spent it all on beer, the CEO would basically be screwed.

        1. True, there is some mitigation, but a judge should determine this. The crowd funding organiation has the ability to call the FBI, who will call the Royal Canadian Mounted police. The first step is to attach the house to prevent a sale from scooping all the money out from under. No doubt the lawyer will have acted to hypothecate the house in some manner????
          A title search needs to be done on the house to make sure a court ordered attachment is first in line.

    3. I think you are right. At the very least, this goes under the pile of “ylan not being experienced enough to be a CEO”. I imagine it was something where he and his partner David shared some type of friendship such that he tarnished his and his company’s reputation. A lot of the backers are disappointed. Of course, his fancy edited videos of him narrating at multiple angles while putting all the blame on David is also seen as a weak move for a CEO to have made.

  2. Great, another crowdfunding failure. No matter how legit the project looks, the best bet would be to never back a 3D printer on kickstarter. My buddy already got burned investing a few hundred dollars in another 3d printer on kickstarter that never delivered. Kickstarter is losing a lot of my trust, especially when they don’t take any of the blame.

    1. I think this one is more important then most others. This one was big news, everyone was telling me, why would be buy your printers? You can buy a printer for $100 now.

      Just out of curiosity, which printer was your buddy’s failure? A lot of these failures are part of the “if it looks to good to be true, it is”. It’s really really hard to source a 3D printer for $400 in parts. Add all the other costs of running a company on top of that, and you have a recipe for disaster right there.

      I’ve backed 10 kickstarters so far, 8 of them delivered. Of the other 2, 1 of them had an “deliver date” of March 2014, but hasn’t delivered yet, however, is still updating. (not expecting much, but only $20). And the last one is only recently backed, and will most likely arrive before the end of the year.

      1. It was the Pheonix 3D. Funny that you mention it being difficult to get a printer for $400 because the phoenix 3D was $400. Hopefully, your kickstarters deliver. I’ve backed a few a projects as well and all of them have delivered so I haven’t been burned yet.

        1. Well, it’s not that hard, in low volume, you spend about $100 on just electronics (Do not forget that power supply, it’s a big cost chunk). Another $100 for the hotend. Motors, $50. Gives you only $150 for everything else, all the other parts, but also including salaries for the people packing boxes, R&D & support, replacement parts for broken bits, software. You think that is possible?

          You can make a printer for $400, if you know what you are doing, make no mistakes, and your hours are free.

          (I work at Ultimaker, I know our BOM, I know our markups. But I cannot share those details)

          1. You’re comparing a truck to a bicycle. This isn’t an FDM printer, it’s a photolithographic printer. The costs are entirely different.

            Power supply is minimal – nothing to heat, and virtually no mass to move. No hotend. No need for high-torque motors – hell, with a projection lens + the drip solution, there really wouldn’t be any need for motors *at all*. With enough engineering, a $100 photolithographic printer is probably pretty tractable.

            I don’t really buy your estimates on an FDM printer, either. I think $400 is the ‘nominal low end’ right now just because that’s where the market puts it. Anything under $400 people don’t trust. Or more accurately, 3D printers are still “fussy” enough that people prefer the cost stays stable and the printers improve. So any engineering that the ‘trusted’ companies do doesn’t go into cost savings, but making the printer more reliable.

            There are plenty of FDM printers out there for sub-$400 *right now*, so clearly, it’s targetable. There’s just not a huge market for “fussy cheap 3D printers,” regardless of what people want to believe.

    2. While embezzlement is a new and unexpected piece of drama, let me just say it was clear from very early on that this project was never going to ship.

      The original concept to use soundcard-driven coil actuators was novel, if likely to be janky and un-calibratable. Their demo with first prints had obvious distortion and z-calibration problems. But few hobbyist printers used SLA, and my hope was that, if successful, this would get more people tinkering on it, which would lead to better designs to replace it. Also, if they shipped anything, I could use the parts to build something using a microcontroller to drive PWM for something more reliable.

      But in their first updates, they started experimenting with different coils and torsion wire. Then they hired someone to design a new driver circuit, way more complex than the early proposal to simply ship with a usb soundcard with known output driver characteristics.

      This is when you should know a kickstarter project is going to crash and burn: the second they start proudly talking about R&D accomplishments, you’re boned. It tells you whatever they demoed never worked reliably (although that’s kind of expected behavior with hobbyist 3d printers). It also guarantees there will be delays, which burn the funding on office leases and salaries, until they don’t have enough left for production.

      1. this x 1000.

        I’ve backed several Kickstarters and the first trap/bad omen is when the campaign video promises a deliverable and within the first one or two post campaign updates is some excuse to either re-design or share a flaw that the creator knew about.

        IMO, the problem is that a lot of these people are using Kickstarter to launch the product line of their company – which I was under the impression that it was against the rules.

        Rylan had the full confidence of his revolutionary kit, and he should have shipped it as-is, and then used any leftover funds to work on Peachy 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever. Instead he did the equivalent of a bait-and-switch.

        I was very curious at his use of soundcard implementation and… voice coil? I forget the exact details(it has been over at least a year).

        @toaste, your last paragraph is so right. After personal experience with backing the PeachyPrinter, The Agent Smartwatch, and this isn’t a Kickstarter one, but the Makerbot Cupcake. I concur that whenever the CEO/face of the company starts to humblebrag/self-praise/suddenly focus on fixing other issues instead of focusing on manufacture and delivery of product, it is trouble.

    3. Here’s a hint. Don’t get into investing, PERIOD. That’s right- you’re going to have high risks on getting burned as you put it. This shit? It fucking happens all the time. I know, because I’ve been there. F-ing CFO caught with his hands in the investor cookie jar, in my case. My only regret is that we didn’t put the SOB in the slammer…all because we were worried about the smoking pieces of the mess like this poor f-er is in.

    1. Keep in mind though, that this is crowd funding. Not a traditional corporate structure. I am not an attorney and I have not deeply investigated this but the money given to the company was in the form of promises, not an implicit exchange of money for a product. This materially differs from most preordering or even investments. Now, fraud may have occurred on the backend of this transaction between the two “partners” but what (Canadian?) laws were broken by failing to deliver on the printers?

      Can anybody who is more legally versed in Canadian or US law chime in?

      1. In Canada, a CEO/Board can’t really be held liable by the investor(s) for making bad corporate choices (investor draws are legal). Under US law they would be sued if the company were registered in a state, but what these guys did was not illegal up north unless they purger themselves trying to lie their way put of trouble.

        Note, government funding has some serious legal strings, and you can be sure every dime will be clawed back by the CRA (the Canadian IRS). These guys will be getting corn-holed in an audit very soon, as the IRS/CRA doesn’t give a piss about excuses for defrauding tax credit programs.

        I remember their faulty 3d printer design, and warned people it wasn’t going to work fiscally or electrically.
        Fast business Math for hardware: 20% of $100 for hardware is a $20 raw part budget.
        There was no way they could build under 100k pc volume at that price.

        3/4 of all hardware based companies fail within the first 3 years — mostly because most MBAs can’t do math.

      2. IANAL, so grain of salt, but a quick read of their terms gives a decent impression and a reasonable guess:
        https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use#section4

        Based on how they seem to have set things up, there is no obligation on KickStarter’s end, but the project DOES represent a contract between the Project Creator and the Backer. The Project Creator is required to act in good faith to deliver.

        If David is considered one of the Project Creators, then a reasonable recourse might be a Class Action against David for violating that contract. If he’s not though, then theoretically he had no obligation to backers, and it’s all on Rylan.

        If it’s on Rylan, then I’m certain he would have grounds for fraud, theft, embezzlement, or something along those lines. Those all seem to take a very long time though, and leave the question of what Backers should do…

        On one hand, they could believe that his pursuit of the funds is an act in good faith, and just give him time. Maybe he’ll pull through. If they don’t feel he’s acting in good faith, presumably a class action against Rylan would be an option. The most likely though, most of them will probably chalk it up to a failed crowdfunding campaign, sigh a little sigh, and move on.

        In any of these cases, it’s my personal hope (based on what’s known so far) that Rylan comes out of this with a hard-learned lesson but no REAL damage, and that David at the very least loses anything ill-gotten along with some suitable punishment. A precedent of some type is probably about to be set, I’d prefer it not be one that ruins the trust/viability of KickStarter.

        1. The no culpability whatsoever on Kickstarter’s part is what does that- and does it anyway. That’s a bit of a problem and they’ve let clear scams go very far before people heavily highlight the fact (Equiso gaming console anyone??).

      3. You should also know that they did sell the product on a separate page after the kickstarter was done. As a “pre-order” function. But the money was drawn immediately. So I would guess that those who pre-ordered the product would have more rights than those who backed them on kickstarter.

        1. If I was a backer, and lived nearby then I’d go help myself to parts off that house. I always need lengths of timber and the wheels on his car are probably good. Also Rylan said the guy goes away for long periods of time… Great! Thanks for the tip off.

          1. I had been thinking the exact same thing. Especially since the guys name is public knowledge, and we know where abouts they are. I would be surprised if Reddit hadn’t sleuthed a bunch of details on him already.

        2. Your guess would be wrong. If it was offered as part of a remuneration on an investment (i,e. I get equity in the company in the form of shares..which happens all the time…), while it’s not covered under the same law as a purchase, in a bankruptcy action all parties would have priority over other creditors. It’s a mess…and unless you understand the law…don’t make suppositions like that.

  3. I think the lesson here is: engineering folks, your non-engineering business partner needs to be treated like a recovering addict. Extend some amount of trust, but verify often and take care not to put them in situations where they could be tempted.

      1. Agreed. I view it like prenuptial agreements: it’s not planning for failure, it’s building failsafes to protect yourself from future-you’s bad decisions.

    1. who got those salaries? Corporate crooks pay themselves inflated wages and say nothing was stolen.
      Experts to solve peachy problems might be legitimate. An expenditure audit is needed.

      There is the stick of the Canada Revenue Agency, stolen money is undeclared income

    2. $400,000 on salary if you assume everyone was working 40hrs/week (~2,000hr/yr) and paid $13.33/hr that’s 15 employees. If you were a full legit company and had to pay healthcare and other costs you would be lucky to have 9 employees. “Expenses” is pretty vague but if you assume utilities for the tenant space that’s about $20,000/year too.

      1. Yep. Doing business isn’t cheap. Hiring people isn’t cheap.

        If you’ve never done any of this, you might question the money spent. I don’t. I thought his goals were a bit optimistic on the Kickstarter funding. That’s why I didn’t contribute on this one- I semi saw it coming because the guy in question is/was inexperienced in product development and business. With the floor and margins so low on this amazing little design and clever hack, you need some good people that’re HONEST behind you. I didn’t see that. You also need to understand that you needed 2-3 times what he was asking for in seed capital just to have a real hope of bringing it together with room to spare. It’s doable with less than that- but it raises the risks considerably.

    3. YES. If you’ve never done product design…keep your thoughts and comments to yourself as you have absolutely no concepts and have nothing to contribute to the conversation.

  4. Very strange. 1) why the dramatic and over-produced video? (sad music, slow fades, and fake acting) 2) why would the embezeler ever agree to an interview like this? I’ve never met heard of a theif who would do steel on this scale and then admit to it, let alone do a full-blown video interview for the public. If it’s real then it’s only evidence for the eventual court case once a lawsuit is filed. None of this makes sense at all.

    1. Peachy Printer’s always had pretty high-quality update videos. This is basically par for the course.

      But I think you’re misunderstanding something – the guy in the video is Rylan, and *he’s* not the one who embezzled the money. That’s David Boe. And if you look at the documentation on their site, he’s got plenty of documentation to back up his claims, including a signed agreement between the two admitting to this problem.

      1. thing is, sounds like he knew of the embezzlement within months of the “successful” financing. Did at any time he relay this to the backers? Or was it all “trying to fix things” while keeping the backers in the dark until it got too much of a problem?

        Three years of essentially covering up massive internal failure is pretty bad IMHO.

        1. No, the money was spent within a few months, but didn’t become apparent to Rylan until over a year later. Even then, promises were made for swift repayment. It was around two years after the kickstarter that it became clear the money wasn’t coming voluntarily from David. At that point, lawyers didn’t want Rylan to say anything about it.

        2. I am a backer that emailed to ask about shipping dates after they missed the first date, a perfect opportunity to say there was a problem… email said it was technical issues or something and they were still planning to ship ASAP. The way i see it they lied and kept us in the dark.

          1. ‘Partner has possession of the Company’s bankroll, and is busy doing a shit job of building a house with hopefully-not-our-money, and isn’t answering his phone anymore.’ is a kind of technical issue.

    2. Absolutely, this is über-sketchy. The apple intonation and camera angles, fancy graphics/animations. The website is styled in a sad dark tone. lol wtf? I bet he paid himself a hefty honorarium. I mean just look at the pie chart, its ridiculous. The main money should be in production for a micro company like that. People you are being played. This feels off and weird. Happy I am not involved. I had my own pseudo-crowdfunding experience with a 3d printer (I entered after the campaign) and I got out by a hair. My printer was actually delivered… years later. Most other backers got nothing.

    3. I suspect the answer is a simple, Rylan is a bit of a flashy, show-offy kinda guy when it comes to video media. I mean, it certainly rubbed me the wrong way when he posted that video under the Kickstarter update. Several backers too were questioning his choice of dramatic music, multiple angles and the hammy(unfortunately, I think this is normal self) way of speaking as they thought he wasn’t taking this seriously. There may be some merit to this, as in the interview with David, he’s got bird’s nest hair and is rather calm and less… hammy during his speaking parts.

  5. This just does not add up.
    324k were stolen.
    But they got
    50k loan + 90k funding from state + 135k SR&ED funding.
    That is 275k in total.
    So they are short of 49k in total. It can not explain the total failure and
    three years delay!

    Still having 324k in profit would be a relief, but failing to deliver is the biggest failure imho.

    1. They’re actually in the green….

      David’s Payback: $107,000
      Gov Business Grant: $90,000
      Gov R&D Functing: $135,000
      Family friend loan: $50,000

      Total funds embezzled: $324,000
      Total funds received: $382,000
      Total funds in the green: $58,000

      I have funded 3 Kickstarter projects, and they all came through extremely quickly. Then again, only one of them was even minimally risky (the original Pebble). I normally stick with the old saying “If it looks to good to be true, it probably is”

      I really hope they (Peachy Printer) can figure something out, for the sole benefit of their backers. As a company, I do not see them lasting in the long run.

      1. Except that Rylan kept paying a minimum staff during that whole time while trying to raise enough money to ship. The printer is a better printer now than it was in Jan 2015 when we first wanted to ship it. Until a month ago, there really was still hope that he could somehow pull this off.

        1. It’s all hearsay at this point. We can go back and forth on whether or not it would’ve shipped on time had the money not been embezzled. Regardless of money, key business decisions weren’t handled properly, large mistakes were made, and right now, everyone is paying for it.

          I stand by my statement of Peachy Printer not lasting in the long run.

          1. Well, it’s not “hearsay” for those of us who were a part of it. We shipped 170 printers which somewhat worked, and learned a lot from that. By January 2015 the printer worked great, and we were ready to shift to production mode. That’s when things fell apart.
            So, can I say without question we would have been able to ship 5000 printers? No. But it was the lack of funds that put the brakes on right then.

          2. The point I’m trying to make here is that Peachy Printer, as a company, made a lot of very large mistakes. The livelihood of their employees and the company itself are now paying for them. Had things been handled properly, the likelihood of this situation taking place would’ve been significantly lower, if not zero. Both David and Ryan should have properly planned for a business venture that’s asking for $50,000, let alone receiving near a million and a half of funding from various sources.

        2. “The printer is a better printer now than it was in Jan 2015 when we first wanted to ship it.” I disagree with that. I funded for a $100 printer and I had to source my own stand and reservoir. I agreed that they should spend SOME time on a full kit yes but then they started talking about a “scanner” and that was two updates across 6 months. There was definitely bloat, wasted time and delusions of grandeur. To be successful from day one they needed concrete goals and a big whiteboard of timelines with everyones responsibilities laid out. At the same time, none of the boys have ANY business experience and when your heads down in a project shit can get out of hand reaaaaaly quickly, I know.

  6. so the fraud happened within months of the KS fundraising closing, but this wasn’t reported until YEARS later? Sounds kinda collusive to me.

    Did KS still get it’s “cut” of a “successful” project?

    1. Not to mention iBox Printers. They actually shipped some product, but decided after they started production to ship the late backers that paid more first, rather than the early birds, then started shipping to web orders rather than Kickstarter backers. They shipped more printers than needed to reward all the backers. Then closed shop. Monoprice seems to have bought the iBox Nano. But backers are still left without.

      1. I started assembling mine, but stopped halfway. Took it apart, sold all mechanical parts and kept the motors, electronics and 5kg of ABS.
        I can’t believe even a well tuned makibox can equal the output of my 400€ CTC budget printer…

    1. Ha! Damn… well if Apparatus goes on and Jon Buford shows some decency (which would be incredibly surprising to me as I lean to agree with the group that shouted “fraud!”), people might see something after all. Wishful thinking I guess :P.

  7. I gave up on crowd funding after my indiegogo experience. They delivered over ayear late promising that the reason for the delay was due to improvements being made. The improvements ended up being injection molded ABS. panels instead of aluminum, a plastic carriage instead of an aluminum one, a flexcable integral to the carriage that is easy to tear, an extruder nozzle with a thermal gap and a resister heater that keeps trapping filament. They kept requiring full payment on orders even after they surprisingly delivered the fist campaign orders. I think they are using those prepaid orders to pay for older orders.
    I know it’s hard, but you still need to follow good business practice when starting these campaigns.
    Bad news is that after getting jerked around for over a year not only will I never crowd fund again, Im left with a constant reminder that a decent prototype doesnt guarantee a good product if the sole purpose is to optimize for profit.

  8. you forgot to post the mass e-mail and two jaw dropping ridiculous youtube videos rylan did to justify whats been going on. the videos look so fake makes me think rylan might be in on the scam. seriously i mean who waits a so long then post a nicely edited video to say how sorry they are.. this is just BS…


    right now i don’t know if i should be angry or laughing…. those vids are just unbelievable….

    1. The videos are pretty typical of Peachy. I don’t see the big deal. Video editing isn’t exactly difficult.

      I really doubt Rylan’s in on any scam – he’s *asking people to contact the police*, and giving away tons of information, including the parcel location of the actual house.

      1. It’s not about difficult, it’s about what do you do. Stylizing is meant to make the videos enjoyable by pleasant distraction. Which is straight up demeaning in this situation. You don’t draw ponies on the act of bankruptcy as the only way those can be received is as being treated like idiot. You provide clear and clean factual explanation for people to judge, not try to sell “a story” or offer “experience”.

    2. … as a backer of this project – I’ve seen enough of his hammy performances that I honestly think that this is Rylan’s video creative side showing. I mean, it does look like he’s sorta not taking this seriously, or mocking what has happened, but I honestly think that this is how he expresses himself.

  9. That’s not how construction loans work. You get the loan before the project starts, the bank sets aside a credit line for the construction project. The amount of money you need on hand is very minimal, you don’t build the house first, then get a construction loan to pay back the funds you used to build the house, if that’s how you did it, it wouldn’t be called a construction loan, it would be called a mortgage!

    I doubt this embezzler is going to mortgage his house to give the money back to the company, he took it knowing full well that he was never going to return it.

    1. You misunderstand.
      He has the cash he stole tied up in materials and contractors who have been paid. His intention was/is essentially to build it with our money, THEN take out a loan against the property to repay the “loan” he took”, Im highly suspicious that Rylan fully knew this was going on, that this was the plan all along, but something went sideways with the construction/permits/finance etc.

        1. hey, Scott, I think you mentioned before that you’ve worked in Peachy Printer. This thing that David did – is that a common (albeit, risky) practice? Or is this a blatant act of theft as a result of being tempted by money? I think Rylan mentioned somewhere that ~30-40K was David’s normal salary or something?

      1. You assume that David could qualify for a construction loan. Banks usually require the builder have experience before they make a construction loan. At this point he probably couldn’t qualify for a conventional loan either. The current requirements are crazy.

  10. Thank you for a nice summary Brian. I didn’t have the time to watch all those videos just to learn what exactly went wrong. Why wouldn’t they update it in text?

  11. I’m so completely over crowd funding. I backed a couple of successes, but got totally scammed on the Agent smart watch (by the guy who does the Netduino).

    Kickstarter and Indiegogo are now just an easy way to set up a fraud. Wouldn’t touch anything on there no matter how safe it looks.

  12. Startup capital systems basically have the integrity of the bitcoin community. !!MAJOR MONEY HAS DISAPPEARED!! …12 days later.. Anyone else using this new vendor? !!MAJOR MONEY HAS DISAPPEARED!! …12 days later.. Anyone else using this new vendor? !!MAJOR MONEY HAS DISAPPEARED!! …12 days later.. Anyone else using this new vendor? !!MAJOR MONEY HAS DISAPPEARED!! …12 days later.. Anyone else using this new vendor? !!MAJOR MONEY HAS DISAPPEARED!! …12 days later.. Anyone else using this new vendor? !!MAJOR MONEY HAS DISAPPEARED!! …12 days later.. Anyone else using this new vendor?

  13. What a bunch of fraudsters! THis is why I stopped supporting crowdfunding campaigns so much. I only back people I think are 100% going to pull it off. A $100 3d printer? Yeah right. My 2d printer cost more than that. I like supporting creators so I have been using crowdspeaking platforms instead for quite some time now. This is just too much. I hope the backers can get their money back.

      1. Acutally if you spend only $100 on a inkjet/laserjet you haven’t been ripped off but you are going to be ripped off on the ink. Which is why you should invest in a CIS printer like the Epson ET2250 which is around 250-300 but the in only costs $13 per bottle which puts it on par with many laser printers with the benefit of basically being a high quality inkjet.

  14. I smell a rat. Firstly they don’t appear to be the right people to build the first $100 SL 3d printer, it’s like watching dumb and dumber. And secondly, if I was to steal the money and build a house, and my morals were that low. I wouldn’t then admit to it n video. I’d disappear. I don’t know what is going on here but I’m sure going to be researching hard before I back anything on kickstarter

    1. You’d be amazed at how many projects that are funded through the different startup-funding sites never get completed. I don’t see a difference between building a house and anything else they do with the money..

      1. Very good point, I suppose at least something got built. I’m sure if I was one of the investors I’d arrange a class action on the guy just to give him one big headache worth $300k

        1. “trying and failing” This is the problem.. These sites aren’t for experimental projects.. If you deliver nothing you pretty much lied to everyone who paid you else they would of never given you money. Unless it’s just a fundraiser for someone credible which isn’t a startup..

          You have the same mentality as the people who gather around crypto-currencies and startup sites though.. Ehh it’s just time and money what’s next..

  15. :sigh: I’ve been both guys in my life. When I was Rylan, I, too, kept everything hidden, trying desperately to solve the problem without revealing it, as that would cause the level of stress and difficulty to skyrocket. When I was David, it was more like “I need money! NOW! Emergency! I’ll just use a bit of what was entrusted to me, because I’m sure that I’ll be able to replace it before it is needed.” …and we all know how that ends up. Personally, I feel badly for both of them. Their poor decision making has set up a disaster that will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

    1. Your post is overly dramatic. I really doubt this will “haunt” them for the rest of their lives. David seems to be more in the wrong but both are to blame and should be held legally responsible. Wrong is wrong and money corrupts. I don’t have any sympathy for either one of them.

  16. Full scam… Im suprised that rylan dont talk about nigerian royal families who will lend him the money to get money back… First ofc u have to pack a bit more money….

    Rylan is 100% in on this scam… Open ur eyes people!!!

    1. Sure he is, and the other one is the fuse,
      they are just trying to be creative in the design of their ending story.
      Kickstarter is a much better way than you-tube to make money with videos.

  17. For crowdfunding there is no guarantee, either explicit or implied, that you will ever receive anything for your contribution. Seems to me there is nothing preventing campaigners from committing fraud, even openly, and not being legally liable.

  18. OTOH… this is shipping to me in July (yes, delayed by quite a few months, but that’s kinda assumed with a kickstarter):

    Having built one of these delta printers from scratch, they way they discussed issues with current designs, I knew these people had quite a bit of experience building and figured they were serious.

      1. They’re custom-geared 28BYJs, not pager motors. And I don’t get the disdain from people regarding this – you need NEMAs because of the weight of what you’re moving around. Half the reason why people *like* deltas is because you’re not moving around a motor like on a Cartesian bot. So… why are people surprised that someone’s engineering a delta bot with low-torque motors?

        It’s not exactly super-new. Once you remove the stepper driver for the extruder motor off the head, the end effector is super light, and a 28BYJ should be able to handle that fine.

  19. So here is the genius of this plan. Blame the other guy. Wait for the court to figure out the mess. In the meantime he gets to claim the company can’t deliver and he keeps a substantial chuck of cash. Scott free.

      1. Opinions on the Internet is generally of the quality of the people that thinks their alumin(i)um headwear will stop ZOG/Lizard people/the Bilderberg group from erasing their perpetuum mobile ideas from their brains…

        It’s better to leave the examination of the case to the legal system. Much more reliable.

        1. You have to use the thick foil or it won’t work as a proper brainwave reflector. I’m joking of course.
          This whole story is stupid. Super cheap printer! Give me money I’ll make one for you!
          .
          opps i bot a hous, super sory my freind stoll ur $
          .
          This you-know-what happens every single day but this scam was obvious from $100 3D printer beginning to overproduced video end.

  20. I believe Rylan acted improperly by not going immediately to the police, filing a lawsuit to recover the funds and confiscate David’s property. At the least Rylan was incompetent. There is no reason that he should not have insisted on a joint account before getting the money. He is liable to go to jail right along with David for getting government grants under false pretenses to try and cover up the theft. I believe he was trying to do right by the backers but is too ignorant of legal responsibilities and not smart enough to know he should have gotten better advice.

      1. I’m sorry, what psychopathic tenancies? That’s some psychology degree you got there, kid! Oh wait no, as you said yourself most internet opinions are at the level of the tinfoil hat brigade. You are demonstrating your point admirably.

  21. I don’t think every person/persons launching a Kickstarter campaign should be required to go to the trouble of starting a registered entity (company/business) to receive the Kickstarter funds. That’s just adding extra barriers to entry – the kind of barrier that crowdfunding is supposed to mitigate.

    Having a Kickstarter campaign that points its money hose into one person’s own account is acceptable IMO – that’s the “low barrier to entry” case.

    But you have to trust that person. Maybe they can just take the money and run away. In their page or their video, do they give you confidence such that you’re prepared to take that risk, as a backer, and give them money? Kickstarter is not a store – crowdfunding backers have to understand that risk, and they choose to take that gamble.

  22. Apart from the fact there are too many scams on kicksterter, even with possible legit projects I often wonder why anybody would want to invest. Sometimes they are even products already available in the store, like a ‘pizza cookbook’, or else just wait till it becomes available in a store. I haven’t seen that many kickstarter projects in which investing gave a big financial advantage over ordering it when available

    1. As they’ve always said they would do (like here on Reprap.org) but not come forward to until the “Sorry, guys” YouTube video.

      http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,247926,248066

      Interestingly, the confession does not appear to be “uncontested”, Dav-o spoke to the BBC (probably from his 4th reception room or 5th bedroom-come-office) to say it “was made under duress”.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36271249

      Trying to bring it full circle, you can now 3D Print a photo of Dave’s house, it’s open to everyone, not just defrauded investors.

      https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1555287

          1. I don’t see it myself, I’d prefer a standard bank, where it is more protected by codes of practice. In this instance we know where the money has gone (or where it didn’t get to the right place).
            A dual signature bank account would have suited this situation exactly, and I’ve set up about 3 in UK so its releatively easy, even without deed of Partnership or Ltd Company status.

  23. #1) OK, for starters I am surprised Kickstarter will actually deposit ANYTHING into a personal account. Its not an automated project system and you do talk to humans. The second the project hits its funding goals you need to incorporate (which is $400 + $100 rush to get within 2 weeks) and it only takes an afternoon to open a corp bank account. You should need government proof of LLC and account to get any money thats for damn sure.

    #2) I have a product to sell that in qty 600 (most of their parts) will cost ~$90 to build. Lets do a kickstarter to FUND r&d, SETUP supply lines, PAY people and rent, and BUY laser cutters from our inexperienced profit estimate. If you are an established company a kickstarter where you sell at your qty margins you will be lucky to survive. You need INVESTMENT, something not tied to a tangible product delivery.

    #3) Kickstarter is a store. 100% a store with very long lead times. Most projects don’t even bother with the $1/10/20 donations for a mention on the website and start with the first “rewards” as the qty pricing of the final product. It is impossible from the start.

  24. “as cost and time required of certifying the laser in the Peachy Printer would have put the company in the red.” – Can someone clue me in to how this would have put them in the red? ANd what steps they would have had to go through? I’m developing a product with a pretty hefty laser, and am curious.

  25. I don’t think the point that there are continuous funds being put into the peachyprinter via their website has been looked at, there is likely more money there than in the kickstarter, I put in ~$325 last september (2015), so the fact is that 350K is gone, it’s been two years and the house isn’t done yet “bullshit”, but all that aside what the hell are you doing with our money that is flowing in through the peachyprinter.com site Rylan? You could have at least been using it to pay shipping to ship out units, and then stretched it out. There appears to be fraud with Rylan too, don’t tell me that you have all these parts etc, and you want laser certification, that was just a ploy to delay the inevitable. Now I know why this a hole calls the resin “STIFF”, because he is going to stiff you out of your money. I want to see how much money Rylan has taken in since the kickstarter from his website. Someone needs to have their dick knocked into the dirt!

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