Sit down for a moment commenters, we need to talk.
Yes, you all knew this post was coming one day. We’ve talked about this topic at length internally, and we have decided that we’re going to clean up our act. For some time, Hack a Day has been growing a reputation as the prime source of extremely negative, vulgar, rude, sexist, and inflammatory comments in the hacking community. We’ve had complaints from readers (yes there are readers that aren’t commenters, thousands of them) and fellow members of the hacking community about this problem for a long time. [Eliot] even mentioned it back in 2009 when a job applicant expressed concern. We’ve nicely tried to steer things to the positive in a variety of ways, from suggesting commenters to be more supportive, jokingly making a troll detector, and simply stating that the comments need to stay “on topic and nice”.
When we see things like these tweets by [Jeri Ellsworth], we hang our heads in shame.
She’s not the only one. We actually get this quite regularly. As our readership grows, we see it more and more often. We get emails explaining that people have done a hack but don’t really want to post it because the commenters will just tear it apart in an unnecessarily aggressive and negative way. We have actually had people ask us to remove their projects and comments due to uncivil behavior. Constructive criticism is good, but insulting and angry deconstruction isn’t helpful to anyone.
We’re better than that aren’t we? We are fast, agile and fairly unrestricted in our content. We should be at the center of this community, not on the outer edges, reviled by many for the behavior of a few. Hackaday should be the teacher at the front of the classroom, not the kid in the back throwing wadded up paper at the kids in the front.
What we’re doing:
First off, as far as we can foresee, we will never close the comments section of our web site down. Hackaday should be a home for the entire hacking community and as such, you will always be able to settle in and have a reasonable discussion. We do not want to implement any sort of G+ integration or similar, nor do we want to require registration to leave a comment. We will if we absolutely have to, but lets try to avoid that.
Comment sections and forums have often been a place where negative comments can get out of hand. There are many theories for why this happens, but the result is usually the same: rules and moderation. Many sites have already laid down the law and are adhering to their goals of keeping things civil. We realize that we are to blame if our image is this poor, so we are doing something about it.
From this point moving forward, Hackaday comments will be civil. If you are posting an empty in-joke (“where’s the Arduino?”), a declaration of “not a hack”, a racist, sexist, completely off topic, platform-hating, or personally insulting comment, your post will be deleted. This will be at the discretion of whichever Hackaday staff member happens to see your comment first.
Can you criticize Hackaday?
You can’t walk into a business and start screaming about how much they suck without being escorted out immediately. Same thing applies here.
We are always hard at work trying to find interesting hacks, makes, repairs, tweaks, videos, etc. that appeal to a wide spectrum of readers. We put this web site together for you, as well as 200,000 other individuals. Not everything will appeal to everybody. That would be impossible. However, if you don’t like a post or project, just skip it – we’ll have another one ready in short order. We will feature projects that appeal to the seasoned EE as well as the complete beginner. We were all beginners at one time, and it would have been great to have something like Hack a Day around back then to show us hacks ranging from simple to advanced.
From time to time however, Hack a Day can be a less than desirable place to hang out, especially for those who are coming here for the first time. We don’t want to chase off young, creative minds. As a community, we should be helping those that are just starting to venture into hacking electronics.
If you have a problem, email us. You’ll probably actually get a response that way too. My email is Caleb@ and you’re always welcome to email me personally. Again, please be civil (yep, I’ve had my share of death threats).
Grammar/spelling corrections and dead links:
No need to comment, just email us. A message to team@ will suffice, but you will probably get a quicker response by emailing the author directly. We know we have issues – we’re often so excited about a hack that some little goof slips by. Email us and we’ll fix it. Don’t write a 3 paragraph comment about how important the oxford comma is, or how we’re obviously incapable of functioning because we accidentally flubbed a word. We promise we will never intentionally screw up some grammar, spelling, or punctuation.
What you can will do to help:
Be constructive.
Every project here probably has an area that could be improved, or a part that was done inefficiently. Support your fellow hackers by offering your expertise. Explain why something isn’t working, or how you would improve it. Don’t slam them for their shortcomings. Also keep in mind that different people go about things different ways. Poster X didn’t build something the way you did? Offer an alternative without being insulting. If someone chooses to use their brand new Core i7 monster system to drive a few LEDs, that’s their prerogative. Inside, we all know that it is not the most efficient use of money or technology, there’s no reason to beat that dead horse in public.
You know what else encourages hackers to do more projects? A pat on the back. I talk to people all the time who say that they just don’t have any constructive criticism for the projects, so they don’t comment. Well, that and they know they’ll bring the ire of the worst commenters if they happen to ask a silly question. Drop in and say what you like about a project. Those positive posts might just be enough to encourage that hacker to take it a step further. How many projects have you seen dropped simply because people thought there wasn’t any interest? Tons. If you like a project, let them know.
To encourage this, the writers are going to be keeping an eye on the comments. Randomly, when we see someone being exceptionally helpful, we’ll contact them and send them a prize. This will most likely be in the form of a hackaday sticker, but we’ll see if we can’t find some other fun things as well.
Help us make Hack a Day great. Please.
[Update: we’re working on a comment flagging system currently]
[Update: threading and comment reporting have been added]
tl;dr
Also, if we’re going to get big long lectures about other people’s conduct (you’re giving them exactly what they want: attention), then I’m probably going to have to find another site to browse.
“As a long time reader and first time poster; I always enjoyed reading the comments due it’s gossipy nature.”
+1. Even if sheepish thinks I’m an idiot. BTW, I’m a long time reader *and* long time poster (though rather sparse). For me the trolling around is part of HAD’s identity and if it changes too much I’m looking for another place.
I have read hackaday since its near infancy. Generally i avoid the comments due to things like this, and saw it happen so much i felt unmotivated to alert the staff, assumed they was well aware of the problem and did not care. Nice to see some positive change. It’s really sad to see a tweet like that from not just anyone in the hacking community, but someone with notorious reputation. But sometimes, that’s what it takes for change to happen.
either way, glad to see the hammer being bought down, i’ll probably get back to reading comments more now :)
I have been a long time reader, and I post semi-regularly. I hate it that Jeri hates HaD because of the trolls, she is brilliant. The one line comments that basically are “You suck”, “Your project sucks.” “Uses an Arduino so it sucks” or even the now tired and why people are even still using “Where’s the Arduino?”
The elitist behavior was what was killing me. The crowd who thinks you can build a Cray from abacus beads. “Nothing ever is a good job, and if you think this is a good job then you are the swine as well.” Never understood that, because everyone of us had to learn whatever volume of knowledge we think we had from start.
HOWEVER, the spell corrections, that is nothing but your fault HaD. You have no one to blame but yourselves. The spelling here is bad. You guys are great, I love the site. But you are being a media site. And as such, you should at least read over your work, or at least get someone else to do it if you are to jittery excited to do it yourselves. Blaming us, that is nothing more than a cop out. It is akin to blaming the guy across the street because you tripped over your own shoe laces. Spell checking and then reading it over at least once would solve 99% of the spelling mistakes. You should be thanking the person who points out a legitimate spelling or word misuse for doing your job for you rather than deleting the comment.
Nothing is perfect, but a good attitude will breed better designs and reveal overlooked accomplishments. This website is where people who have this kind of attitude go to.
Thanks Hackaday!!!!
Honestly I never thought HAD to be any more offensive or negative of a community than any other I have dealt with online. Honestly people it’s the internet, you take what you can from it and leave the rest.
“yay! as an ex-had-employee, and a woman, i’m really happy to hear this news! YAY!”
As per this ^ and many others… I can’t believe we have gotten to a place in this world where calling a woman “hot”, “beautiful”, or “sexy” is something degrading we have to apologize for.
“Ohhh but sM10sM20 women are more than just a pretty face you ignorant jerk!!.” I know these woman are ridiculously intelligent and so does 95% of the population on here, if 5% of them want to comment on your appearance because they think its freaking awesome that you’re a sexy nerd chick you should at the very least be able to tolerate this.
The subjects people are trying to address here are cultural behaviors on an international level, the HAD community and hacking community in general do a spectacular job distancing itself from that but we’re not perfect.
Everyone wants to be a victim.
Not a hack.
I agree that it sucks when people post stupid things, but at the same time you have to train your staff to properly moderate. If they delete any comment ‘at their discretion’ it will become a problem in the other direction, where you’ll only get meaningless “good hack” posts and no real discussions.
Please make some clear rules and have your staff follow them, just as you expect your commenters to do.
@eth3real: I don’t think Jeri was offended, so much as she was lamenting the apparent correlation between trolls on her youtube feed and being featured on HaD.
I suspect her skin is much thicker than that.
“While that is awesome, it just really shows how sloppy and amateurish adafruit’s coding is.”
This is why you are being censored, people.
Now this is very long post but every word of it is correct. It is absolutely shameful to read what few people post for people like Jeri. I have always wondered how she felt about it and her tweet explains it all. About the posts on Hackaday it is absolutely right for people to skip them if they don’t like them. What most people don’t realise is that nobody is perfect, everybody is at a different stage of learning in their lives. Some hacks however small or naive at times teach us something and inspire people in the form of ideas.
Registration would actually be helpful so nobody can spoof a persons username. How about self censorship where people can vote for against a comment like yahoo does it. And finally is there any way we could apologize to Jeri and make her like Hackaday again?
as someone who both comments and had his work displayed here i have to say this is sad. I’m sorry but if someone posts about a non existent project just e-begging for money and not being able to actually call them out on it or the author for writing it to begin with then this place will turn into nothing more than a gossip scene or a watered down version of engadget. Sorry you went way overboard, some moderation fine, but this seems like complete open to shut it all down if you even think of saying anything.
on a side note, with as many readers as you have if any particular project maker gets their panties in a ruffle because “trolls” come out of the woodwork then they need thicker skin and get over it.
sorry but i have a feeling h.a.d. will be going bye bye from my reading really soon
Your own staff commits trolling. I first learned about this site from a major trolling/hacker site and you fly the jolly roger. You post links to instructions telling people how to manipulate government equipment and bug people’s homes. This site is a part of the underworld if people don’t understand that then it is time they learn. It could be worse.
Another long time follower of HaD. Our hackerspace has had NUMEROUS discussions about the trolling and crappy attitude of many on HaD. It is a refreshing change to see something being done about it. Now we can resume sharing some of the projects we have been working on.
Constructive criticism is one thing: “That’s cool, but you may want to consider…”
Mindless trolling is quite another.
If you want to troll take it to 4chan and leave us to our hacking.
it’s interesting to me that everyone who has: works/worked here, made projects, used their real name, or founded the site (me!) says this is great – while people who obviously are worried about their past comments are freaking out because they uncomfortable with what they’ve done before.
one of my favorite people emailed this to me (name removed) “so of course the comments in the Caleb’s comment policy post have already descended into “it’s my right to say what i want [on this private website to which i contribute exactly nothing]” arguments. some people will just never get it.”
it’s not that hard folks, just say something good like “here’s how i would do it” and leave out the: racist, sexist, un-friendly stuff. not hard, you can do it.
look guys – when fbz, jeri, ladyada all say there is a comment problem here and they’re thrilled things are about to get better that pretty much negates most/all of your snarky comments about hack-a-day. if they can’t feel good about posting stuff, we all failed. there are tons of dudes talking about why women aren’t “in tech” – this is why.
dozens of people, hundreds by now, over the last 5+ years have emailed me directly asking “what’s up with hack-a-day comments”. yah, it’s a problem – they think i’m still here, i’m not – i’m a fan of the *potential here* but have nothing to do with this site now. the crew here is doing a great job, just show them why they don’t need to step in now.
the hack-a-day team isn’t going to delete a million comments, they’re hoping they don’t need to. this is easy, show them you can say constructive things and also not be jerks.
saying “get thick skin” is just an excuse for being crappy to each other. really? if you’re jeri it’s all about “hot or not” if your face is in the project at all, or if you use arduino “that sucks, use a PIC!” c’,mon dudes – you all became predictable, that’s the problem.
here’s your challenge, read all the comments here – look how most say they never comment because of the comments. next, provide value for a full week, show the hack-a-day team they do not need to delete a single comment, everyone was great and moderation wasn’t needed.
can you do it? i think you can.
we all know back handed snarks will still exist here, you just can’t be total f*cktards any more. this is good, this is how and why the site will continue on.
do you really think any company wants to advertise on hack-a-day when most posts have “your x,y,z suck!” no. ever run a site like hack-a-day? i have! the commenters and making it awful for the staff, if companies hear it’s toxic here, they’ll steer clear.
i’m sure i’m going to get some crap for saying all of this, but i started this site so i get to say things like this, you’re in the house i built, shape up or leave, seriously! i don’t live here now, but i will be here now and 10 years from now.
:)
don’t like it? start another site, i did! make, pop sci diy, adafruit all came after hack-a-day for me. i think the hack-a-day team would love to see a hack-a-day style site to compete with them. i think you’ll find it’s harder than you think.
any way, if anyone wants to talk to me in person about this, you can find me on google+ and i’ll gladly do a video chat. that kinda where this is heading, like it or not – show up, be kind to each other, maybe show a project or move on… i’ll see some of you on the hack-a-day hangouts or adafruit show-and-tells or make maker faires soon :)
be good to each other, we are what we celebrate!
I would like to point out that sometimes a negative critique is a good thing. Using your (Caleb’s) own example, while it may be the “hacker’s” prerogative to use a Core i7 to drive LEDs, a negative critique could be helpful despite the harsh or aggressive nature. Last time I checked, a common stereotype for hackers/nerds/computer geeks/etc was a lack or deficiency of social skills. While Mr/Mrs/Ms Commenter might be a jerk, the fact that they are saying something like, “This is stupid, you could have used (part B) instead of (part A),” might give a reader another option if they want to attempt the same hack. It might be a negative comment, but it is still a somewhat constructive criticism. Should the commenter be a little more polite? Sure, but they aren’t going to learn civility from a website. On the other hand, maybe the hacker that made the i7 LED driver didn’t think to use (part B).
I don’t know, and maybe I am just a rambling grump, but the more people start to realize that they are not special little snowflakes the better we may all be. You ever have a boss fire you and then give you a hug? Me neither.
Well done Caleb! Can’t wait to see this positive change. If you need help moderating, I volunteer for the job.
I love reading this and finding the trolls try and justify there harassment XXD
another long time reader and one of my first comments.
Thank you.
Wow that’s awesome, no it’s super awesome, no it’s double rainbow terrific awesome.
I’ll get started making the new HaD logo that incorporates a bunch of “my little ponies” in various pastel colors right away.
Gosh, I’m just oh so excited I think I went “weee” just a bit in my panties.
Good Job HaD!!!!!!! (I put 7 exclamation points because it’s just “that” special).
way to reinforce the stereotype of hackers/geeks/nerdy folks being whiny, thin skinned wimps.
you guys are really being the EXACT thing you claim to hate with this new bullshit comment policy. instead of stopping the trolls, you’ve found a way to troll yourselves better than anyone else has so far, KUDOS.
This site has been losing credibility with me, and it is the quality of some of the projects that disinterests me, and accuracy of the HAD posting. Contrast this with many of the earlier posts and you will know what I mean.
Sometimes nowadays I skip quickly through the headlines, and come back when I notice that the post has been flagged on Adafruit or DP.
Deleting comments here is dishonest and takes away some of the fun, esp when there is a project of mediocrity let in by HAD.
@Vis1-0n – i will take you to task on this, you say “This site has been losing credibility with me, and it is the quality of some of the projects that disinterests me, and accuracy of the HAD posting. Contrast this with many of the earlier posts and you will know what I mean.”
i started this site, i’m specifically saying the site is worse now because of the commments. when i ran it, i did the posts and managed the comments – so you’re idealizing a past which is what the future should be for this this site. so – i think you’ll like the changes, the editors here can focus on more content, advertising $$ and not crappy comments, this is *good*.
the posts here are better now than when i ran the site, i have no problem saying that!
you’re also saying you come back once a link / post was also on adafruit (that’s me again! i post there a lot). so again, you’ll need to maybe make a leap and trust me here. the comments are tearing down this site.
i can only imagine hack-a-day removing the worst offenders and likely gently asking folks to be positive in the comments.
why don’t you try it out for a week and provide value here, it’s better than just saying “This site has been losing credibility with me, and it is the quality of some of the projects that disinterests me” – hack-a-day is what you make it.
when i started the site, i said we’ll get the hack-a-day we all deserve. here we are, let’s make it great :)
thank you for making a great site even better! Lets get ride of the fudge packers once and for all.
You need to clarify what you mean.
Are you going to start moderating ad hominem and “first” posts? or _criticism_?
Are you going to implement no child left behind on HaD? Medals for everyone and so on?
“From this point moving forward, Hackaday comments will be civil. If you are posting an empty in-joke (“where’s the Arduino?”), a declaration of “not a hack”, a racist, sexist, completely off topic, platform-hating, or personally insulting comment, your post will be deleted. This will be at the discretion of whichever Hackaday staff member happens to see your comment first.
”
+1 +1 +1 +1
As a person who has really tried to take people on a journey that teaches them something, I will admit that the Arduino comments have been particularly cutting. Thank you for making this change, and re-introducing the community attitude.
I’d say ‘1up’ but that’s an in-joke too, isnt it?
@pt:
The quality of posts has gone down. Your editors are obviously trying very hard, and that’s nice, but it’s not the same. Trolls are not the only thing to blame here.
I trust you read my earlier post, in addition to all of the praise posts for the threat of censorship.
If you’re really saying that HaD is going to permanently be another crappy news site, I have to say that I’m packing my bags too.
That would be sad, since I’ve read HaD before getting out of bed in the morning through being in bed at night again too for a few years now. I don’t want to leave, but I don’t need to be wasting my time reading yet another crappy maker blog if that’s what this cool site is turning into.
Respectfully,
I’m not sure whether anyone mentioned this as I didn’t search or read every post, but why don’t you implement accounts + an upvote/downvote system for comments a la reddit? Crowdsource the moderation – there are a ton of lurkers reading the comments that’ll register + gladly contribute to raise the comment quality.
If you decide to do it with moderators alone, please be mindful of “not a hack” posts – the site gets filler stuff every now and then, and this has the right to be pointed out, up to a few times. Otherwise you’re just stifling the actual feeling/opinion of the community on it, and then why allow comments at all? Also be mindful of platform-hating posts, as long as good reasons are given they can be valid (if exaggerated). Every other scenario you’ve mentioned I agree with – it all comes down to not abusing the ban stick, really.
Oh and, good job so far – some of the hacks across the years have been pretty cool; it’s definitely kept *me* reading.
I’ve been reading here for a long time, and posted maybe 6-7 comments in total.
Part of the reading here, is glancing through the comments, sometimes giving me smiles.
Freedom of speech is important, censorship is really bad…
I really don’t understand why some people can’t take it. It’s just comments, words.
Censorship is evil.
GOOD.
I would like to also request that you IP ban idiots, in addition. Hell, I’ve seen creepy stalker shit, cheered on by others, that probably should have been sent to the local authorities.
In three words- I like it. It is a well written post and it makes complete sense to me. As I have heard many times “if you don’t have something good to say, don’t say it.” Anyway there’s my two cents
When you post a hack, expect a BIG bulls eye on your back…
that is the nature of the game.
So put on your big boys/girls pants and live with it or get off the Internet…
I’ve been reading Hack-A-Day quite a while now and yet this is my first comment.
I could write a whole article about how I agree with the author or how constructive comments can help each maker/builder/hacker/… – instead all I will say is simply:
Thank You!
Long time reader, first time commenter:
ive always avoided commenting due to the comments being no better than ebaums and it has stopped me posting projects of my own. its about time you sorted it out
Waahhh!
Big brother HackaDay is ‘censoring’ my graphic rape fantasies on a tech forum. Also the other day I called a woman a bitch in public and they told me to leave. SO MUCH CENSORSHIP!
Laters, ‘comrades’, I’ll go join a blog that respects my awful shitposting.
@shazzner:
Wish I knew this thread that everyone keeps referring to.
But regardless, you’re being every bit as childish as the type of commenters HaD is wishing to stop.
I think the majority of the negative comments about this new policy are being made so that HaD understands the concern some members of it’s community have about the possibility of”negative” comments arbitrarily being removed. That’s a legitimate concern, since that term is very vague.
I don’t think people are proposing that racist and/or sexist comments are in any way acceptable.
Way to go! :D
I pity makers who are so sensitive/insecure that they feel the need to stay in an artificial, cleaned-up, sanitized, politically-correct bubble where only flattery and back-patting is allowed; makers who do not bear to hear “what you did there is flawed/inelegant/worthless” if some people consider it is.
You are welcome to turn your site into such a bubble if you wish HaD, but frankly I have exactly zero interest in being part of such a crowd; don’t expect to see me around here again.
But be careful what you wish for – as they say, “what you want to be / you’ll be in the end”; I just hope you’ll like it…
PS. You’re welcome to delete this if you feel like it – just don’t think you’ve accomplished something by doing that; you had to read it first, and that’s all I ever intended. Have a nice life.
I like the idea as well. This is HaD, not 4chan. If I want to read the comments of idiotic trolls and prepubescent teens, I head to 4chan. When I want to see some cool hacks and innovative projects, i come here. I am glad you guys are making the gap between the two bigger.
It’s too bad that it has to come to this but I think some rules and proper censorship is a good thing. Who would want something posted anywhere if half of the posts are negative.
@Matt:
Pretending the problem doesn’t exists doesn’t make it go away, and I think the original post clearly spells out what kind of comments would be removed.
The majority are literally crying about not being able to post garbage, and conflating ‘censorship’ with a private forum wishing to maintain civility and insight on a tech blog. I mean, it’s not like this is a totally unheard of event, many other forums have adopted policies for such things. The only strange thing about this is how long it took for HaD to adopt it.
Whining that we should tolerate shitposters and “grow a pair” is utterly ridiculous. I’m sorry that an adult is having to inform you that if you want to be allowed in someone’s house you’ll need to act civil and obey the rules.
In fact, I think the worst tragedy of this is learning that so many people are unable to understand what the word ‘censorship’ means.
@pt maybe a “flag this comment” button -craigslist style to make mod’s job easier? just a thought
…
btw I blink lights with an astable multivibrator.
So when the masses dislike something and post saying why they don’t like it. There will be no recourse as it gets deleted.
Doesn’t sound that great to me…
—————-Great Idea——————
——————————————–
Wonder if this will get read, but cant you just make the community responsible, in the same way as btjunkie, that the community can click possitive or negative on comments i.e. http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Adobe-Reader-9-0-freeware-TheOneX/4333129872f7d2d8211f659f19642a89a4472ad53e16
where when something is below thresh hold it doesnt display?
I do like that you dont have to log in to comment!
Since early 2000’s i have been a hackaday lover.
i love that its for HACKERS!! PEOPLE that are diffrent, odd, strange, and brave to try whatever the *uck they want with things.
plesae dont censor us. we need to express ourselves… yes, hit the trolls with a ban stick because thay are dumb. but leave the rest of us eletist, old school i might add (google my screen name) people alone!
love foever… moo man cow dude.
JimmytheCow
This is why I don’t come to HaD anymore.
Hate to say it, but you already lost.
This is the internet, you show a weakness, the trolls jump on you. No idea why they pick this place, but now, because you let them know it bothers you, they’ll be here, posting garbage.
While I understand you are trying to get help here and figure things out, all you really did, was tell the trolls they are bothering you and what they are doing works.
Suggestions? I don’t now, maybe only let members post comments. Maybe adding some crappy hard to read captcha stuff to posting will make them give up. Moderate comments.
But never, never let them think they are bothering you.
The rude behaviour of commenters is unfortunatly something that has grown over the years and not only on HAD. Read comments on youtube, imdb, newspapers, … It is shocking what some people dear to write down in an comment.
Thank you HAD to start solving this problem.
I aprove.