Quiz time, what was the first commercially available microcomputer? The Altair 8800? Something obscure like the SCELBI? The Mark-8 kit? According to [The Byte Attic], it was actually the Q1, based on the Intel 8008 processor. The first Q1 microcomputer was delivered in December of 1972, making it the first, as far as he can tell. Later revisions used the Z80 processor, which is the model pictured above that [The Byte Attic] has in his possession. It’s a beautiful little machine, with a striking orange plasma display.
The irony is that this machine is almost entirely forgotten about. The original unit may have looked more like a typewriter, pictured here. If you have any first hand knowledge, or especially software, documentation, or surviving hardware bits, make sure to check in to add to the knowledge pool about this amazing little machine.
It’s an important milestone, and the development of the Q1 may have been a direct cause of Intel developing the more powerful 8080 microprocessor. It seems that Daniel Alroy’s work on this machine literally kicked off the microcomputer revolution, and it’s been missing from our computer lore for too many years. We’re very hopeful to see more of this story come together, and the history of the Q1 fully recovered.
And if retro hardware is your jam, we’ve got you covered, including among others, the parallel story about the first microprocessor.
Had a clock that looked like that front panel sans the keyboard.
This thing reminds me of an old MBO translator from 1978..
http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/museum/mbo.htm
But how much did it cost? Lots of computers were “first” but they aimed at a different market. So we never heard of them because they were marketed to non-hobby markets.
I have original advertisment posters of th worlds first microcomputer
Hallo,ich habe eine Q1 was ist diese Wert? Maik
meik: Which version/accessories/software do you have and where are you located? Photos would help. Please send your information to contact@technikum29.de, and ask them to forward it to me also [they have my email address]
The world wasn’t that different then. Intel made eval board and dev kits. So first could only mean first to market as a commercial product.
>> with a striking orange plasma display
And a complementary corn on the cob keyboard – Yummy!
Reading one of the archived documents from the GitHub link, one iteration of this thing was designed to run business applications written in PL/1, which was compiled to intermediate “byte codes”, and the machine ran this intermediate code directly via a ROM based interpreter. The document scorned BASIC and extolled the virtues of PL/1. Also talked about an OS, floppy and hard drives, and other accessories. I hope bit archeologists can find evidence of this rather than it being vapor ware.
I designed many of the peripherals and driver software for the Q1-Lite – from a 27Meg hard drive interface [one of the first, if not the first bit-slice disk controllers [AMD 2900 based]] to a 9 track tape drive interface to a multi-user network running up to 64 of these workstaions sharing 4 8-1/2 floppy drives, and two 27 Meg hard drives over a 300K buad serial link, and IBM Bisync software, all the way to a workstation that supported 2 5-1/4 floppy drives and a 80 column dot matrix printer in the same console. The base system with one floppy, 8K of RAM and 6K of ROM could compile and run PL1.
I still have a set of 8-1/2 floppies stashed away somewhere.
Addendum – There were 3 generations of the Q1 systems – the first used an 8008 , single line 80 character display and daisy wheel printer, the second [Q1-LMC] used the 8080, and the third used the Z80 [Q1-Lite]. I worked for them just before the Q1-Lite was developed, until the 4th generation system using a 68000 went into production.
Were you in Long Island/
Yes, Q1 was first located on Dubon Ct in Farrmingdale [off Rt 110],
and Later moved to Ricefield Lane in Hauppauge
Don’t recall which location I visited in late 1976 or early 1977. I was there for an intro to the Q1 for supporting several models of the Q1 that were to be delivered to NASA. My POC was Glen Malm. Spent several days there including a company trip into NY city that included dinner at the WTC. I believe there were also couple people from Europe there (possibly Denmark or Sweden). Also supported some locations in the Washington DC metro area (assisting (BBM Systems).
As Q1 slowly went out of business first they put up a wall and sub leased out half of the Hauppauge building. Then we moved to a building in Medford and then to an even smaller building in Coram. I left in 1990 when it was just me, Glen Malm, and a receptionist. Everything might have then ended up in Glen’s basement or garage!
It’s great those things came to fruition! Bet that was rewarding to work on. I wrote a fair amount of PL/1 code on IBM machines, and so hearing it ran on an 8-bit machine with much more modest resources is amazing. Do you have any idea of how many of these machines might exist in the wild?
Hi k-ww,
our museum http://www.technikum29.de owns a Q1 lite and we collect any available information on it. Any kind of software is extremely valuable to get our machines running again. Would it be possible to get digital copies (or even the originals ?) of your Q1-floppys ?
Roland
Roland: How does it feel to have a statue of your namesake in the town square [in my hometown Bremen? ;-) ]. I will make an effort this winter when I do a purge of 20+ years of junk in my basement to find the tin [steel] box with the 8″ floppies and a folder that I remember as having some of my hand drawn schematics of some of the Q1 peripherals I designed. I think I even have the microcode emulator that I built while developing the software for the AMD2900 based hard disk controller I developed for Q1. On a side note: the distributor for Q1 products [in the mid-late 70’s was called Autocomp, and was located in Oberursel, a bit north of Frankfurt. We ad a contract with a man with the last name of McBride who had a companty that had a high-speed scanner that digitized paper tapes from cash registers, and converted them to mag tapes for data processing. [I remember finding his name in the Franfurt telephone book [or his son’s] about 21 year ago during my honeymoon in Germany. I will send an email to your museum’s web site sometime this weekend with my contact information.
k-ww, that sounds unbelievable ! This would bring our efforts to revitalize our Q1 a big leap foreward !! I’m looking foreward to getting in touch with you soon
First microprocessor? These people might want to have a word with you:
https://firstmicroprocessor.com/
That’s some cool history! Probably is technically the first microprocessor, but I don’t think that makes the F-14 the first microcomputer.
More like microcontroller.
What about the Kenbak-1 from 1971?
Another good point. I think that is the first personal computer, but doesn’t use a microprocessor, so not sure it counts as a microcomputer.
Kenbak-1 was definitely the first personal computer. It shouldn’t be penalized because the processor was made of discrete components –it should be lauded!
Exactly.
Everyone has a first if you use enough adjectives, but the case for the Kenbak-1 is far n
More compelling than for this later system…
I thought using a microprocessor was the main part of the definition of the word microcomputer? Wasn’t the word invented for the purpose of describing the “then new” computers which used a single-chip microprocessor?
That’s a fair assessment. There were minicomputers, but microcomputers weren’t a thing until microprocessors roamed the earth.
Or the Olivetti Programma 101, sold first in 1965? It had a peculiar architecture and some parts, like the keyboard and printer mechanisms were derived from mechanical calculator, but it was a fully programmable computer. The successor, the P602/P603 had a ROM with subroutines that was a rather primitive OS, and the 603 model had a typewriter connected to it for alphanumeric I/O.
https://vintagecomputer.ca/files/Olivetti/P602%20Microcomputer/Olivetti%20P603%20Office%20Computer%20-%20General%20Manual.pdf
Wow, that’s interesting to know!
I want ti Say that too! :) Olivetti did It in 1965
My fingers were starting twitch and then he mentioned the datapoint 2200.
Sandia National labs TRIED to use rad hard 8085 in weapons systems.
Project failed. Too many support chips.
Next rad hard 8051 tried. No support chips required.
Then ~1991 c/c++ computer software programmer arrived to
replace embedded controller hardware/software distributed technology.
With mainframe mentality technology.
c/c++ 911?
Philon.net is still alive on archive.org. The history is very interesting, Datapoint commissioned the 8008, but for lack of resources, Intel thought there was more money in the 4004 calculator chip, and cancelled the 8008. Once they were done with that, the author of the website convinced them to go back to work on the 8008. They would, but only if Datapoint gave up the rights to the design, which they agreed to.
There is also a picture of the Q1 with two 5.25″ floppies installed.
I had a machine called the “Commodore Pet” in 1972, except not the same company or same machine everyone associates with that name. It was sold as a kit by some guy in the U.S. (don’t remember name) advertised in Popular Electronics, Popular Science, and Popular Mechanics in spring of 1972. Gen 1 was based on the Intel 4004. Gen 2 was based on pre-release engineering prototypes of the Intel 8008. I ordered it in June 1972 for my birthday, received it in November, took until April 1973 to get it running because the PCB was full of errors. It took numerous very expensive long distance phone calls, and letters and schematics sent by snail mail with the designer/seller to work out all the bugs. He only sold 70 kits and I suspect very few of the buyers ever got theirs to work. Case design was very similar to the Altair and Imsai (which came afterwards).
The Commodore PET computer arrived in 1977.
And the Mark-8 came before.
He keeps making this claim, but he’s never bothered to find an old ad or article. I have no doubt that there might be some we never heard of, though it’s hard to believe, but I think there must be a garbling about the name.
I missed the Scelbi when first advertised, but when I looked back I saw the ad. Carl Helmers had his computer detailed in his newsletter,maybe there were others.
The Datapoint 2200 was released in 1970. The Q1 appears to be a knock-off of that machine, at least visually. Datapoint had Intel under contract for the 8008 and when they couldn’t deliver, they implemented the processor in 7400 TTL. Still have an original manual, instruction set was the same, in terms of capability but not binary compatible.
My dad used to work at the UK branch of datapoint in the late ’80s and sometimes he used to work on 2200s still in service in certain places I think, but mainly newer stuff like 8600s etc. I know this is barely relevant but on the topic of obscure machines there is this company called Ventec (not sure of spelling but something pronounced like that) that he talks about having made machines that he sometimes had to work on, but there doesn’t seem to be any trace of this company on the internet. I wonder if you or anyone here has ever heard of them? I don’t think they were responsible for anything noteworthy, but there seems to be no trace and my dad insists they existed which is what makes it interesting.
Elliott: Your father is referring to the “Ventek 9200.” That’s the name Ventek used for the Datapoint 2200s they sold. MANY 2200s were sold, thru Ventek, to British Rail throughout the UK, running TOPS software on a large online network, to keep track of railroad ‘wagons’ (railcars, as they’re referred to in the US). I have been trying to find out more about the Datapoints’ role in TOPS, and in my research discovered Ventek (a distributor for Datapoint equipment. Datapoint eventually acquired Venter). British rail’s contract was a multi-million dollar contract, installations went on for several years, throughout the UK – all connected BR locations via modems to the mainframe IBM 360s.
Wasn’t this and the other machines mentioned little more than a work station or a glorified dumb terminal? Even the cheapest calculator today has more computing power than all these things combined. Unless they were interfaced/networked with a mainframe could they do very much as a standalone?
Doc:
This system could run applications ranging from banking [many credit unions used it], to word processing [proportional spacing on a daisy wheel printer, to use by NASA for an application called ‘SPECSINTACT’ [if I remember the spelling] to all the functions needed for car dealerships [in Germany] ,and able to run PL/1 faster than a time-sharing 360. For it’s time, it was very powerful,
and I’m proud to have worked on it’s hardware and software.
(Applause)
I want to see it running. Can they make a video where they turn it on and use it?
It’s a work in progress. Gotta find software that matches the hardware.
I poured through early 1970s edition of Datamation, trying to find the earliest reference to Q1 Corporation. Near the end/back of Datamation, it has an index of all the ads reference in that issue. “Q1” is a hard thing to search for since it can get confused with “Quarter 1” reports.
The earliest mention of the “Intel 8008” I found was in the December 1973 issue (“A-100A Datacumulator” device).
The earliest mention of “Q1 Corporation” that I found was in October 1977, with a very brief ad that simple states “Q1 Corporation the first company to develop, manufacture and market microcomputer systems
has now introduced the Q1/Lite, the ultimate office machine” (then list an address and phone number). So the 1978 device discussion here is that later “Q1/Lite” device.
Prior to the 1972 tele-type based Q1, there was a similar device in 1969 called the Daedalus (a tele-type based Programmable Data Terminal). But sure, it wasn’t microprocessor-based.
After reading through Ted Nelsons 1974 Computer Lib “book”, I now have the opinion that “microcomputer” does not equate or necessitate use of a microprocessor [ i.e. just as “minicomputer” doesn’t have a “miniprocessor” ].
Nelson (a contemporary) states that “microcomputer” is a “meaningless marketing term” and throughout articles in those days, you also see “small computer” or “microcomputer” referring to anything “smaller than a minicomputer” (regardless of how it works). This is why the IBM 5100 is even sometimes also called a microcomputer (despite not having a microprocessor).
Anyway, I’d still like to see more evidence they had an 8008 integrated into a commercial product in 1972 (and what “on startup” software it had, if any, and a price sheet and memory capacity). The Datapoint 2200 was technically wrapped up as a product in 1970, but I don’t think any commercial sales were until 1971 (but the Version 1 initial serial-processor release was not “self programmable” and could only load from tape — the contents of that tape having been prepared on a more powerful HP system; a subsequent update did have more ROM-like software built-in). I came across an article on the MCM/70 that stated they had used an 8008 emulator (written in FORTRAN) to do their development, while waiting for the 8008 chip to actually become available (that development being during 1973). My point is, in history we might get a “product announcement” date, but given the circumstances back then the actual product might be 90+ days out (sometimes 180+ days) before any delivery (a trend that continued for many years).
After reading through Ted Nelsons 1974 Computer Lib “book”, I now have the opinion that “microcomputer” does not equate or necessitate use of a microprocessor [ i.e. just as “minicomputer” doesn’t have a “miniprocessor”, it’s just something smaller than a building-floor sized mainframe ].
Nelson (a contemporary) states that “microcomputer” is a “meaningless marketing term” and throughout articles in those days, you also see “small computer” or “microcomputer” referring to anything “smaller than a minicomputer” (regardless of how it works). This is why the IBM 5100 is even sometimes also called a microcomputer (despite not having a microprocessor).
Anyway, I’d still like to see more evidence Q1 had an 8008 integrated into a commercial product in 1972 (and what “on startup” software it had, if any, and a price sheet and memory capacity). The Datapoint 2200 was technically wrapped up as a product in 1970, but I don’t think any commercial sales were until 1971 (but the Version 1 initial serial-processor release was not “self programmable” and could only load from tape — the contents of that tape having been prepared on a more powerful HP system; a subsequent update did have more ROM-like software built-in). I came across an article on the MCM/70 that stated they had used an 8008 emulator (written in FORTRAN) to do their development, while waiting for the 8008 chip to actually become available (that development being during 1973). My point is, in history we might get a “product announcement” date, but given the circumstances back then the actual product might be 90+ days out (sometimes 180+ days) before any delivery (a trend that continued for many years).
The 4004-based Comstar Star System 4 microcomputer from November 1972 predates the 8008-based Q1 from December 1972:
https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2024/01/102686568-05-01-acc.pdf
https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102686568
I worked for Daniel Alroy when the office was located in the Flat Iron District in New York City, as his personal assistant. He was negotiating with Nixdorf at the time, who later purchased the Company. I wasn’t involved in any of the technical stuff but did get to know Daniel Alroy very well. We were walking across 8th Street on a Friday before a big computer convention being held in Atlantic City. I told him that I was having a hard time spending time with him outside of work – because I felt as if I were losing a hold on my identity. His GPS for the jugular vein of those around him was honed to a fine art. (He was a member of the Mossad and served as an interrogator of Egyptian prisoners captured in Israel’s war with Egypt. I do remember something he taught me about people. He said if you want to know the truth about someone – don’t listen to what they say, just watch what they do. Action tells the truth. And that advise has served me really well all these years later.
Barb:
Please email me at kavi50[at]ptd.net.
I would like to put you in touch with Daniel’s daughter,
who has been collecting information about Q1,
and her father’s other contributions to computing.
Karl
Nice to see you are still around!