It’s pretty easy to take a balloon, fill it up with helium, and send it up in to the upper atmosphere. It’s much harder to keep track of it and recover it when it falls back to Earth. If you’re trying to do that, you might find some value in the Tiny4FSK project from the New England Weather Balloon Society.
Tiny4FSK is intended to be a very small solution for high-altitude tracking. As you might have guessed from the name, it communicates via 4FSK—four frequency shift keying. Basically, it communicates data via four separate tones. Based around the SAMD21G18A microcontroller, it’s designed to run on a single AA battery, which should last for anywhere from 10-17 hours. It communicates via a Si4063 transmitter set up to communicate on 433.2 MHz, using the Horus Binary v2 system. As for data, it’s hooked up with a GPS module and a BME280 environmental sensor for location. The balloon can figure out where it is, and tell you the temperature, pressure, and humidity up there, too.
If you’re looking for a lightweight balloon tracker, this one might be very much up your alley. We’ve featured other projects in this vein, too. Meanwhile, if you’re developing something new in the high-altitude ballooning space, you could keep it to yourself. Or, alternatively, you could tell us via the tipsline and we’ll tell everybody else. Your call!
Quite the same as re-flashed RS41 (with RS41ng software which can do Horus v2 too). 10-17 hours battery time in what temperature?
And this is not lightweight in terms of high altitude ballooning, looks actually quite bulky. Large PCB and even full SMA connector?
Hello! The SMA is for development only. The aim was to only use 1x AA (or even AAA) battery, as opposed to the 2x AA used by the RS41, while maintaining good battery life. A new revision is in the works to be much smaller compared to this revision, so stay tuned! The RS41 PCB is roughly twice as heavy as the current version and also about twice as large.
I’ve flown a lot of radiosondes, this looks pretty neat. How do you prevent solar radiation temperature errors?
Hello! I haven’t ran into any issues with this. If I do, I’ll make some changes!
Thank you for featuring my project! My new revision circuit board will be even smaller (the size of a gumstick)!
Looks interesting, not really impressed with the choice of another signal system when APRS would work fine and has a pretty big supporting ecosystem for tracking.
Wonder if they will make boards available to schools that want to try it out.
Hello! I actually have a breakdown comparing APRS and Horus Binary v2. The goal of this is to make this available to students, researchers, and educators, and schools is a very big target for me. I actually conducted a class at the school that I go to (a middle school), and we used this as infrastructure.
Here’s the breakdown in a research poster package:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/173erHb0MfFF4htj0cGblVwo2uqi6NlSAoiPumya2R7A/edit?usp=sharing
thanks for sharing :)
I am a scout leader in the UK. When I started reading about high altitude ballooning – especially when mounting cameras that capture the black of space and the curvature of the earth – I knew this project would satisfy the requirements for a number of badges…. as well as just being interesting and fun.
So much of ham/electronics/computing can be super interesting to those with that mindset… those outside might need some help to appreciate its application. This is the project to bring everyone together.
It also integrates with the hiking/outdoors as after launching, you need to search for your capsule to recover and reuse. The parafoil and glider sondes really captured my attention.
I will be keeping a close eye on developments.
Keep up the good work and well done.
Probably because APRS is trash.
It needs a complete overhaul.
True.
Try https://cats.radio/
I’ll be hated, but I have a project in the works with a transmitter on the APRS frequency; it won’t be APRS though.
It has the same general purpose, and will be AFSK, but otherwise incompatible.
It’ll probably fly under the radar for a while though.
Are you an amateur radio operator?
I’m licensed.
Why not choose a different frequency that won’t interfere with existing APRS systems?
An explicit obligation of an amateur license is to avoid intentional interference with other’s communications.
It’s data, not interference. Interference has a specific meaning, and this does not qualify as such.
As the general purpose is similar, I see no issue with using a frequency that is used by an alternate but similar service. There is no more or less “interference”.
That attitude that once entrenched nothing can change in amateur radio is one of its biggest failings.
It’s data, not interference.
Touched a nerve, did I? So by your faulty logic, if somebody is already talking on a channel, it’s perfectly OK for you to talk over them so long as it’s a different language? That “attitude” is wrong, rude, and contrary to your license.
Change is great. Intentionally talking over other people on the same frequency is not. It is the definition of interference.
All you’ve done is confirm you’re familiar with APRS, or the frequency it’s broadcast on.
Parody? Lame one. 😮💨
Has potential, but the author has a flat humor w/o elegance.
Not at all a parody.
It’s a well thought out, technically elegant solution.
If the author’s choice of theme is preventing you from objectively assessing the project on its technical merits, then your comments are not helpful: step back and stay out of the discussion until you can get an objective sense of it.
I think the signal radiating out of a cat’s butt is a major tell.
Hehe. Good one.
Unless you’re from the Isle of Man, most people recognize it as a cat tail acting as an antenna, but whatever turns your crank.
The QRP Labs U4B makes a LOT more sense to me.
https://qrp-labs.com/u4b
Hello! A few thoughts:
– The U4B is a beautiful unit, for pico ballooning. These types of balloons have many differences from traditional High-Altitude Balloons (HABs).
– The U4B uses a system called WSPR (and has a few other options). This transmits a 4-8 character maidenhead grid locator, which is great for circumnavigation, but if you want precise tracking down to ground level, you’ll need the full GPS lat/lon (or higher character grid locator).
– I believe that the U4B does not have any SMPS or power systems onboard. This can work fine for solar panels, but when powered from a battery, you’ll have to be careful about regulating the input voltage. Tiny4FSK features a TPS61200 boost (or buck) converter that works well with single/double cell batteries. (I could very well be wrong about this)
Thanks for your thoughts!
I don’t have any problem with what you are trying to do, and you should be highly commended for the work, but the U4B already has its own GPS and the ability to include additional data to the WSPR message. It has its own programming capability for things like that.
That being said, I wish you the best in your project. At the very least you will have accomplished something VERY few people of your age have done. I was a manager of a pretty large chunk of tech business during my career, and if I wasn’t retired I’d be keeping an eye on your for a future hire.
Just a couple more tidbits about this project!
-It’s being developed by a 13 year old ham (Max Kendall).
-This revision is still in development and not for sale yet.
-The SMA connector is only for testing, and it flies with a lightweight wire antenna.
-The next version will be significantly smaller, and it can also run on a AAA battery for extreme lightweight situations.
-It combines the advantages of an RS41 (fast transmit cycles, low power, robust decoding) with the lightweight and small form factor of lower power tracker boards developed by hams.
Is it FUD or can F-35 detect it?
Do you mean FOD?
I wonder why they used an Si4063? Is there a specific reason or is it just another RF transreceiver chip?
Hello! I used the Si4063 chip because of a few factors:
1. With the 4FSK peaks, other chipsets can apply an offset. So, when you program the chip to have an offset of 270 Hz, it actually applies a 244 Hz offset. This slight factor can become significant at higher altitudes, and it can be harder to decode.
2. It has a very low current draw, making it attractive for the project.
3. The Si4063 chipset is used by the Graw DFM-17 radiosondes, and it works beautifully in that industry setting, so I chose to go with that.
I hope that answers your question!
Why is it not using APRS on 2 meters? You will have to do all of your own tracking with this board since you can’t take advantage of the huge network of APRS IGates.
Hello! I actually have a breakdown comparing APRS and Horus Binary v2. While the lack of iGates is a disadvantage worth noting, there are many significant advantages. Another goal of this tracker is actually to help establish a large receiver infrastructure, and people are putting in a lot of work to make that happen. Hope this helps!
Here’s the breakdown (research poster)!:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/173erHb0MfFF4htj0cGblVwo2uqi6NlSAoiPumya2R7A/edit?usp=sharing
I highly commend this young fellow’s work and ambition. More power to you, keep up the good work!
-Some old guy who hasn’t done anything so cool.
Thank you so much! It does mean a lot!
Ooh ooh ooh! High altitude balloon on HaD!
Lemme be first!
1. It will crash jet liners how dare you!!!!
2. It will trigger international war how dare you!!!!
3. You need all the licenses from every country on earth plus two Moon licenses how dare you!!!
4. Uhhh. I bet it doesn’t even play Doom
5. I could have done same with a 555
Just to clear things up, this device does not operate near the airplane frequencies. You can reprogram this to operate in ISM bands so that you don’t need a license. Or you can take a simple amateur radio license exam, and use it that way. It is a Cortex M0 uC which many people have played doom on (why would you even try on this?). I would be curious to see your implementation of this on a 555. I’m not even going to start on 2…
Yes I know this isn’t even worth responding to, but if anyone’s interested…
Can it run Doom?
Or
“I could’ve done it with a 555!”
Are standard comments here on Hackaday,
Not to be taken seriously.
Excellent work Max!
I suppose my attempt at humor went farther over head than a high altitude balloon.
Previous comments on other HaD for similar projects always claim, wrongly, well, at least my first two “jokes”
“and a BME280 environmental sensor for location”. I believe the latter part should be moved up front.
Yep, the bme280 records temperature, pressure, and humidity data. The GPS records the time and location.
Sorry for the typo.
“The horusdemodlib.uploader python module will accept decoded packets from horus_demod, and upload them to the HabHub tracker, for display on a map. Uploading to Habitat can be inhibited using the –noupload option.”
Ew. So this needs an permanent internet connection? It doesn’t work offline, independently? 🙁
Hello! It does not technically require a internet connection, but it is recommended. Without an internet connection, it can save the data locally in a log file to be read later.
I see, thank you for clarifying! ^^
How is everything (especially batteries and standard temperature grade components) working at low temperatures up there?
BTW, 13 year old kid did this? Fantastic ! But I am so sorry that you had no normal childhood.
“How is everything (especially batteries and standard temperature grade components) working at low temperatures up there?”
Simple. Classic Alkaline batteries can handle coldness, newish Lithium batteries can’t.
Just use normal batteries. :)
“BTW, 13 year old kid did this? Fantastic ! But I am so sorry that you had no normal childhood.”
It’s unusual, maybe, but not abnormal. He’s fine, with an intact mind.
From my own childhood I can tell that I was tinkering with PCs at age 6 onwards.
The first one was an old Sharp MZ series computer from my dad, it ran various versions of Basic from datasette.
He told me the basic commands, I remebered them.
Later, age 7, I got an old 286 PC running DOS 6.x and Windows 3.x.
Here, I had Quick Basic 4.5 and Visual Basic 1 running.
I tinkered with the DE-15 gameport, because it was electrically safe (no shorts possible).
I was browsing CompuServe and shareware CDs that age, too.
All by myself. The MS-DOS HELP command told me most things I didn’t know and Norton Commander was a friendly GUI.
MS-DOS Shell was also there, as a fallback option, of course.
Needless to say that I had used a soldering station at age 7, as well. A Weller TCP-24!
My father already was a radio amateur at the time, so it was just normal that it “was there”.
I can’t remeber anymore how often I had burnt my hand..
But enough about me, what most people here probably don’t realize is the age difference between US and Europe. We’re about 3 years ahead in Europe, I assume. Exceptions prove the rule.
In Europe (Germany, at least) we usually go to elementary school at age 6 and can read/write, do math. Some start school with 5, even.
We don’t sit in a sand pit at age 8, still or talk to imaginary friends at a tea party.
We also used go to school all alone when we’re little. Or together with school friends. Sometimes, or parents transported us by car, too, but it depends on situation.
Some of this had changed since 80s-2000s, maybe, due to increasing crime, but in principle it’s still true.
So really, some of you have a wrong impression about kids and their mental abilities.
If they are being supported early on by family or friends, they do learn quickly.
Most older toy computers have an age 6 sticker on to them, too.
In the 80s and 90s, these learning computers featured a simplified Basic interpreter, too. Construction kits were similar in terms of min. age, too.
My sister for example, was much more intelligent than me at earlyage.
We could talk about geopolitics with her at age 4!Seriously. Age 4!
She had watched children news programme “Logo” at the Kinderkanal at that age and understood the situation.
Hello! I did some calculations to put enough space such that the components do not get shorted by the board flexing dure to the temperature changes. I tried my best to select passives and actives within the temperature rating. Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries work great at low temperatures and even have twice the capacity.
I will say that I am much happier off doing these types of things than anything else :)
Don’t get a big head, but this level of design maturity, a la the various design considerations, is seldom found in my junior engineers having recent BS or MS degrees in EE. Get some formal calc and physics classes and you will kick the butts of most US and UK engineering grads.
Abuse the force.
It is very impressive!
Still, I will go with a LoRa APRS tracker because of the coverage of digi’s and the bigger chances to retrieve the tracker and batteries.
But this looks awesome and way beyond my skills!