When a man wearing an Atari T-shirt tells you he’s buying Commodore it sounds like the plot for an improbable 1980s movie in which Nolan Bushnell and Jack Tramiel do battle before a neon synthwave sunset to a pulsating chiptune soundtrack. But here on the screen there’s that guy doing just that, It’s [Retro Recipes], and in the video below he’s assembling a licensing deal for the Commodore brand portfolio from the distant descendant of the Commodore of old.
It’s a fascinating story and we commend him for tracing a path through the mess that unfolded for Commodore in the 1990s. We tried the same research path with a friend a few years ago and ended up with an anonymous Dutch paper company that wouldn’t answer our calls, so we’re impressed. In conjunction with several other players in the Commodore retrocomputing world he’s trying to assemble a favourable percentage deal for manufacturers of new parts, computers, and other goodies, and we’re pleased to see that it’s for the smaller player as much as for the industry giant.
When looking at a story like this though, it’s important not to let your view become clouded by those rose tinted glasses. While it’s great that we’re likely to see a bunch of new Commodore-branded Commodore 64s and parts, there are many pitfalls in taking it beyond that. We’ve seen the Commodore logo on too many regrettable licensed products in the past, and we fear it might be too tempting for it to end up on yet another disappointing all-in-one video game or just another budget PC. If something new comes out under the Commodore brand we’d like it to be really special, exploiting new ground in the way the Amiga did back in the day. We can hope, because the alternative has dragged other famous brands through the mud in recent years.
If you want an insight into the roots of the original Commodore’s demise, have a read of our Hackaday colleague [Bil Herd]’s autobiography.
Header: Evan-Amos, Public domain.
This is exciting. I would really like to see Commodore brand being in good hands and producing something worthwhile again.
I have had the wild dream of stumbling in the Commodore IP in some weird auction and buying it for 5 credits and then end up with a Commodore mega corporation doing all kinds of exciting products really worth the name, not blenders and vacuums. One can dream.
It isn’t completely too late to do this, even though i wish this could’ve been done 20 years ago.
A market serving those not agreeing with the three incumbents. Only fly in the ointment is with all this economic uncertainty now may not be the best time to bust out a new player.
That kind of thinking leads to economic uncertainty.
Can’t help but muse on what would be the equivalent of the 64 today. When it came out it was very accessible and had better graphics and sound. Today it seems that an device that made easy to use small scale home automation and/or local AI might scratch that itch. Home assistant, but with all the radios, ir blaster, and such already installed for the most common protocols, a simplified starting point of common integrations aimed at a dorm room or bedroom scale, with built in speaker and mic and voice interaction with the AI. Browser based terminal and GUI. Start with easy and grow from there.
Sounds a bit like another C64 Web.it to me.
As name says, this was an internet computer.
Here’s a review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2FMqsPnh5M
40 years ago would have been ideal really, before they just kept making bad decision after bad decision. Even just letting the European bosses take over might have been enough.
Well, this just can’t be – because – “I” am ‘Commodore’!
Id rather replace my aging windoze with a shiny new Commodore 64 BIT than switch to linux.
And you can use GEOS as you desktop!
Good lord, I feel like even talking about GEOS is begging for a supernatural curse.
Will I need “Geo-RAM” for that?
i liked using geos as my first gui many years ago.
Make a deal with Apple, license the M4 processor and make Amiga notebooks or desktops? Make them somehow cheaper. Maybe without Secure Enclave, so it won’t run Macos, but put some form of AmigaOS on it.
I don’t know. Doesn’t seem like Apple would allow that, and even if Apple did, I don’t think the new M4 Amiga would catch on. It’s all about software, not hardware. And if the laptop can’t run Macos, you can’t run Mac software.
Can’t run Windows software either. So you would have to entice companies to port their software to your new Amiga M4 system with AmigaOS or something. But then AmigaOS needs to be brought into the modern world first, which is going to take a huge bunch of work.
Run something based on Linux on it? But then you have to somehow undercut Intel- and AMD-based laptops, because they can run something based on Linux as well, and quite good.
The root most-bottom line is probably the question: Why would people buy your Amiga M4 if there are already so many great computers on the market?
The problem is that since Commodore went under, computer manufacturers have been very busy climbing on each other’s shoulders in order to become The Giant for a short, glorious moment. So Commodore, if you want to do something with their IP, needs a big climb first. And even if you could make the climb hardware-wise, you still have to catch up with your software.
Who would make the investment of bringing together 50 software developers and architects for at least a year, to bring AmigaOS into 2025, with it being able to seriously compete with Linux, Macos and Windows. And not just Operating System-wise, but in terms of application-base of serious applications that would make people prefer to buy an Amiga M4 over an Intel/AMD laptop or a Macbook?
This was all vibe-writing, I just followed my trail of thought. I don’t like the conclusion I came to. But I think it’s the sad truth.
AmigaOS 4.1 :final edition.
https://amigaos.net/
This would be a perfect time to borrow all those good ideas that never made it into mainstream OS.
AROS and MorphOS are both continuations of AmigaOS, maybe look into those?
If “CMD” could make a couple of HDD’s that worked great, you’d think someone could hammer out a plug-and-play, 1541 emulator (please).
Pi1541
I’ve heard and seen one exists recently, not by an exact official source but it exists. I am almost totally sure, i just can’t remember where I saw seen it. It can operate on an exact cycle / rpm emulation – the commodore 64 can’t tell the difference no matter the copy protection, I think it’s entirely an emulator (electronic, no moving parts, basically a sim chip for storage?). Still extremely exciting stuff coming out in the c64 retro arena.
There already is the pi1541 which does this, plus the 1541Ultimate cartridge that Gideon makes
Oh, this is the perfect little PC for kids. However, the output is Standard Definition Composite Video. It might be hard to find a monitor nowadays that can display the picture. But I’d love to see one running. Now all we need is a revamped Amiga PC. That would be cool.
I got a c64 off eBay recently.. all up and running on the yellow and red pins into the back of a small TV
I got it to relive The Boss and in some part to have a dabble at say Olympics or Put stop etc
Sometimes I have to buy a bulk of 8 games to get the 1 I want .
But I know the 1 game is worth that price and in the future will sell the other 7.
I’ve just grabbed a 2nd console from eBay because when I got mine there was some tinkering with the tape deck to load games etc
I’m now planning to get a whole package working correctly for customers. So that they can confidently buy for a father etc and I’m happy they won’t need to do any work on it
I wish him the best of luck and nothing but great success
on the other hand I didnt watch much of the video, too much sap and snotty nose crying over a brand… I might get back into it later, its a 30 min love letter that really should have been a 10 min presentation then WHY. old photos and people crying isn’t a business plan I am particularly interested in
The thing about CBM was that it meant more to the fans and employees than the managment, I think.
So it perhaps makes more sense to think of C= as a family name rather than a brand.
I mean, even me as a C64 critic does acknowledge that the community, the fans, the former user base is something special.
That level of dedication, when it comes to, say, fixing a rusty old C64 found on street..
These people hold many of the positive attributes of being human.
I mean, the ability overcome plain profit thinking and going for something higher, to have ideals.
And that’s exactly why this crazy idea might be going to happen, actually.
If both sides, the provider and customer side, do agree upon an idea.
That’s why dried-up franchises like Star Trek and Star Wars are still there.
Or why Harry Potter 20 years ago had caused a whole generation of kids to read (!) huge books.
People don’t love the product, but the immaterial side.
The fictional universe, the principles, the stories and characters.
The C64 and Amigas have symbolic value foremost, I think.
They do or did stand something for.
That’s why I think that there’s some flexibilty when it comes to the hardware.
A modern re-make that’s not 100% same, but has its own personality, which maybe builds upon principles and ideas from the fathers of these computers might indeed be welcomed by the community.
Also, it’s possible to emulate a C64/Amiga anytime, in order to have access of classic software.
An FPGA providing both software/hardware compatibility with the original hardware is also a possibility.
The Apple IIGS did that in mid-80s, in principle.
It had an Apple II-on-a-chip, for backwards compatibilty.
Or let’s think of NOACs, NES-on-a-chip. Or the C64 joystick with a whole C64 in a little blob.
Adding a little hardware solution to a new C64/Amiga would be possible without going the emulation route.
Such a hardware implementation could be an enhanced version of the original, even. Think C65, maybe.
There are so many ways of doing things right this time, I think.
A modern 1:1 replica of C64 or Amiga for the nostalgic fans would be possible, too.
But instead of using vintage parts, it might be possible to redesign the motherboards with a few, modern, discreet part.
That way, spare extra RAM is available to implement RAM disks or a REU.
Not just an all-FPGA solution in short, but perhaps using SRAM, a keyboard controller, an 6510 deriverative with “turbo mode” (maybe SuperCPU based),
a SID replica/emulator, option for choosing at least 2 different kernal/Basic roms, integrating SIMONS’ Basic etc.
Using of clean, properly done switching PSUs with AC generation option.
So much possibilities!
And keepinging the expansion ports, most importantly!
Or even adding new ports to existing ones for sake of connectivity.
Maybe by incorporating popular expansion hardware that used to be sold optional in the 80s.
Not limiting everything to a game console to consume old games is important.
The emulator boxes often did that, they removed things like datasette port, user port, cartridge port or serial interface.
If these replicas do follow the “spirit” of the originals and aren’t just cash cows (such as the usual emulator boxes),
then they might be accepted and make the jump into 21th century.
Because nowadsys people are seemingly saturated of virtual stuff, this possibility is real.
They want something physical to touch again after all these years.
Especially the young people, -who grew up touching little black boxes with a glass screen all their life-, are are fascinated by physical stuff.
They want music and films that can be touched somehow (via media or enclosures).
Such as a CD/DVD/BD, a music cassette, a vinyl record, a VHS.. Or an NES cartridge, C64 datasette.
And because of this it doesn’t matter so much how the specs are.
A new platform risen from the past doesn’t need to match an Android device or PC, but rather wants to be different.
My apologies for the long reply and the poor English, also.
Jesus Christ ain’t nobody going to read that incoherent manifesto
Good thing you’re mentioning Jesus. 😃👍
Today it’s Whit Sunday/Pentecost Sunday..
If there is anyone who can make sure that only products that deserve the Commodore branding actually get it, I think that would have to be Perifractic. This guy has a passion and devotion to this brand that in my opinion is unmatched by anyone else I know, and I wish him the best of luck with whatever he does with it.
+1
All good intentions but too little too late sadly. Nostalgia is honourable but times move on. Let the brand R.I.P and embrace the future 👍
Retro computing is a big Industry nowadays, Including retro gaming. A lot of people including myself want to keep repairing and using what we are familiar with and have that soulful connection with that something for us we have used before. It’s a lot easier and more straightforward to hardware interface with an actual commodore 64 that a modern PC, it always has been and always will. I wish petifractic that ultimate best possible success and that he fixes the stupid problem of “I can’t do this or make that because some leaderless group of people or person won’t let me because they won’t relinquish the intellectual property right to a part I want to use modify it replicate or replace”. Stupid problem that shouldn’t exist.
Surely an Amiga handheld running a modified version of the steam os, but with full emulation of all the classic Amiga stuff. Bundle it with peripherals to make it also something you can create on as well.
I know it’s just another x86 based console idea but it’s impossible to think of a world where a whole new eco system can get a foothold.
We can dream though, right!
no you cant, Morph OS has been around for darn near 25 years now, and they have not done a single diddly squat thing to it … other than eventually upgrade it to 2006 standards (and charge you an assload of money)
If you really want this to work, you need to get Jeri Ellsworth and the the rest of the archons involved.
We’ve finally managed to rise to the level that makes creating new versions of the old chipsets feasible- get it codified and canonized, and then build on that foundation.
I’d love to see Commodore back as an innovative competitor in the gaming and home computer market, but sadly I think it’s too far gone. It still holds on to 40+ patents, all outdated and some now irrelevant. Commodore was built from the ground up and the name is just that, a name. It’s research and development facilities are dead, manufacturing deals and innovation already exploited by bigger players. It’s romantic and I hope it rises again. But millions of dollars have already been flung at it with no mainstream products emerging. I do wish them all the best. And truly hope to see Commodore succeed again.
Dave Pleasance arises from his slumber and offers to help make a new Amiga whilst pushing his boring books and his too late in a decade social media subscription service. This is just a money making venture for a few people with the job of exploiting those that don’t want to let go.
Spare parts for retro amigas and comodore, atari etc. would be best business plan… maybe custom chips in fpga…
He’s mainly targeting the ability of hardware producers large and small to use the Commodore name for a small royalty to the owners. There were a lot of Commodore machines sold, but what actual percentage of former owners want to restore and use the original hardware? The C64 Maxi clone uses a System on a Chip board like those used in Android TV boxes with an emulator and appears to go for US$399 which I wouldn’t pay.
Is the Raspberry Pi the best Amiga available?
Aug 11, 2017
“My answer is no if you are interested because I love Amiga hardware so I am totally biased :-) However, for actually running Amiga software and games it is easily the best price/performance/experience at the moment that I can see.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HZXM6cLVUg
He should have added BY FAR to his “best price/performance/experience at the moment” comment. The Sysinfo benchmark shows it running at 7.16 times the speed of a 25MHz 68040 A4000 and that is with a now old version of Raspberry Pi.
I think an overestimation of the actual market for retro C64 and Amiga hardware is one of the reasons that, “millions of dollars have already been flung at it with no mainstream products emerging.”
The Rasberry Pi 400 / 500 additionally has that “being fun” vibe (at least for me) that is compatible with the ’80ies and ’90ies computing, even more so now with the Pi monitor available. But I’m not sure if Raspbian has it.
It seems to me that the main appeal of computers of that era was simplicity which made them fun to use, and at the time there was a clear distinction between these and the utterly bland and boring business PCs. Somehow, IBM forced the boring stuff down our throats and decided that boring is how everything is going to be from that moment on. Windows is boring and decadent, Linux is just boring (at least from that point of view – which is just as well since it’s a server OS), and there’s space for some fun and uncomplicated stuff to be brought back. Admittedly, it is partially filled by mobile phones and various gadgets, but I don’t think any of them are as uncomplicated as the Amigas and Ataris and Sinclairs were.
I think to get it right this time, a new device from Commodore would really need to be new, a step forward from where we are now and not from where we were in the 90ies. Sure, it should be able to run the old software but anything can these days.
just last year I got around to trying assembler sound programming of the SID. it’s something I never quite got anywhere with as a kid, and now with all the Internet resources you can actually find the explanation for pretty much anything and get any project done.
however, having the mystery and lack of documentation solved, I still couldn’t get much done. whenever I would think “ok, then I just have to do X to get what I want”, it wouldn’t work, and there would be some long-winded reason and quirky workarounds. it’s not impossible to accomplish amazing things with the old Commodore hardware, it’s just unnecessarily complicated by the cost-first hardware design.
if a new iteration of Commodore hardware could just have obvious registers that do what you think they should do, and work together in any way you can imagine combining them, I bet that whole eager user base of yesteryear would show itself very inventive.
Isntead of getting an exclusive license to put on tat – something that’s failed several times now – wouldn’t the stronger move for the retro community to get all the IP held by the likes of Cloanto to open it up?
The 6502 is an excellent introduction to computer engineering. A C64 with a breadboard plugged in the back with appropriate interface HW is an easy to understand machine. It has most of the attributes of a minicomputer such as addressing modes, page zero, the ability to single step, etc.
Most other CPUs beat the new user with more features than they can grasp. In the end they learn how an immense SW stack works, but not wire level computing.
Add a cash register printer, USB storage and C, BASIC and forth with source code for everything.
That would cover all the major aspects of computing and could be done very cheaply.
wouldnt an Apple II that is entirely driven by its (6502) CPU a better choice than reverse engineering all the vodoo chips of the 64?
Beyond making nostalgia products, I honestly don’t know where a new Commodore would fit into the modern computer space. Conventional sound and graphics have both been explored and developed by billion dollar companies. The current area of excitement and development seems to be AI, and even that is dominated by billion dollar companies. I suppose one area that’s interesting that might fit the bill is making very inexpensive yet still interestingly-capable systems for kids to tinker with. I’m thinking like the Pi Pico-based systems that are as capable as Commodore’s old systems. What those systems need is a good operating system and IDE that can draw kids into computing. But whether that can compete with online platforms remains a big question. The advantage of such platforms over online platforms is the hardware hackability aspect. Being able to add sensors and motor drivers easily might make for something compelling.
Affordable computers for the third-world. Get onto the ground floor while it’s hot.
Something like a Raspberry Pi 500 with a cheap LCD screen covers that base pretty well. Or, better yet, there will soon be lots of non-WIndows-11-compatible PCs and laptops flooding the market.
a core 2 duo with 8 gigs of ram and an SSD will run windows 10 like a bat out of hell let alone something like linux mint, and there are BILLIONS of those office e-waste machines out in circulation!
what century are you in?
anyone that mentions Amiga in this thread has to contend with the original heart and soul of Commodore had already moved on to Atari though pure hostility
is that what we want to cherish? hostile takeover and execution of the company founder? lol, I weep snotty nosed tears