Here’s a 30 round magazine for an AR15, made just in time to add to the national conversation over things that look scary.
This magazine is the product of Defense Distributed who have previously graced the front page of Hackaday with their 3D printed scary bang bang machine. While continuing to work on their WikiWeapon – a gun printable on a home-built 3D printer – the team decided they could subvert more obtuse gun laws by making their own high-capacity magazine.
The magazine is printed on an extremely expensive commercial 3D printer, but the team is working to make it printable on more affordable models. The prototype magazine survived unloading a full 30 rounds. Video demo of that after the break.
Also on Defense Distributed’s DEFCAD is a sound moderator for paintball and air guns. While the design isn’t yet finalized for those big scary assault weapons, it should be possible to modify it for the big guns. One of their next projects is a stock, hopefully one that includes a hinge.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q10Jz2qIog8&w=580]
Wow, the vitriol against gun owners and ignorance of firearms in general in this thread are absolutely ridiculous.
1) Assault Rifles are already illegal in the United States unless you have a very specific license or pay a very large sum of money as a tax stamp to obtain them.
2) Functionally, an AR-15 is no different from any semi-automatic hunting rifle. It simply looks more “frightening.” Most of these “frightening” changes are safety oriented or designed to make the entire system more reliable. Yet these safety devices are being banned because ignorant individuals don’t know any better.
3) The legislation proposed does nothing to fix the systemic problem. Even New York’s “tough” new gun laws allow those with mental illnesses to retain their firearms until they threaten to kill. So if these individuals suddenly snap, the prevention of another Sandy Hook has not happened.
4) The AWB didn’t work. How easily you’ve all forgotten Columbine. I was there. I was there when my friend of six years was shot and killed by an individual carrying a pistol with a ten round magazine loaded. I was there when one of the 99 bombs built by the individuals went off. I personally lived through the bloodshed and hell that is a mass school shooting. That doesn’t change my opinion on gun control.
You want to do something about it all? Do something meaningful. Don’t ban “high capacity magazines.” Eric Harris had thirteen 10-round magazines on him for a Hi-Point Carbine, which is literally a pistol in rifle format. A 10-round magazine limit did not stop him from firing 96 times in a relatively short amount of time. Magazine changes take between one and five seconds (the latter if you don’t know what you’re doing) and will not stop a deranged gunman from continuing to kill in a rapid fashion.
Don’t ban things like Barrel Shrouds, Flash “Hiders” and pistol grips, because that does nothing beyond giving politicians a way to spit on the graves of the 13 people killed at Columbine High School or the 26 killed at Sandy Hook Elementary. Implement things that will actively work to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals and psychotic killers.
Use a purchase permit system. Permit ID, government issued ID/State_Code and name should all match. One permit per firearm purchase. Limit on number of permits per individual per year. Said purchase permit is not to be given to anyone with a criminal history or history of mental illness. Use a phone AVR, mobile app and web app to interface with the permit database so both private trades and dealer trades have to go through it. Make purchasers liable for the weapon’s use if purchased as a straw-man purchase. Make them an accessory to crime, like Robyn Anderson should have been when she bought the guns for the people who killed my friend. Have the ATF start cracking down on real criminals, the gun runners getting handguns into the hands of gangs, drug dealers and other unscrupulous individuals instead of badgering people at the range whose rate limiters snap after normal use. (It’s a felony to posses a weapon that can fire more than once per trigger pull without the right license or tax stamp, even if it’s due to malfunction or failure of a firearm’s reliability.) Start requiring the safe storage of firearms and requiring training to obtain said purchase permit.
Who am I kidding? Those things actually make sense, would actually work toward reducing the problem, would be cost effective and actually target the issues at hand. It’s a politician’s worst nightmare.
I agree with literally everything you said. Only reason I haven’t bought a rifle yet is because I don’t want to bolt a safe to concrete in a rental house.
Guns are made to destroy. I like to create.
…And some people like to *create* guns/gun parts/gun accessories.
Good thing, too. If not, England and France would be speaking German right now. China and Australia would probably be speaking Japanese. For that matter, the US would still be a European colony.
Show me a Jew in a concentration camp, a black man lying in the hold of a slave ship, or a starving peasant in a Soviet gulag who wouldn’t have given his eye teeth for a gun and a fist full of ammo.
By the way, the most egregious crimes in history, including these, were not perpetrated by “gun nuts.” They were and are committed by governments– you know, the benevolent institutions and people who are always promising to “fix” your problems if you simply give up a little more of your freedom.
I respect your position, but sorry, you aren’t morally superior because you’ve decided that you can be comfortable with having a master.
Except the uk has had gun control in varying degrees since the 17 centry,
Firearm control sine the 18th as a part if the vagrancy act
Pistol control since 1903 further restrictions in 1920 a d even further restrictions in 1937.
Gun control however did not stop British engineers inventing the sten gun, quick to make cheap to make and not important to loose.
Firearm law in the uk didn’t change much (except to bring all legislation together to form the firearm act in the 60’s
So nobody was able to own a gun withouth licensing since 1937.
Yet that same gun control didn’t stop British engineers from inventing the SA80 (UK standard assault riffle) in 1985, (anyone who had owned a of any type (not just firearm small arm shotgun etc at that point without requiring a heavily restricted license must have been at least 50 (assuming that they owned a gun as a baby??)
You seem to be confusing things, it’s not only gun owners who can design guns.
Engineering guns is not only the preserve of those who own guns, just as engineering cars is not just the preserve if those with a driving license!
I for one will make it clear. I do not own or intend on owning a gun in the near future. However I fully support the ability for citizens to obtain one. I live in NY and find it despicable that they passed this law, instead of educating the population they are taking a stab a turning this state into a deeper police state. I follow the laws to my best ability and as a right I deserve to be able to protect myself against anyone who has malicious intent against me. Its funny how the states with the most relaxed gun laws have the least gun crime. Take Florida as an experiment, there were violent shootings in Florida daily in the 1970’s and 1980’s. Then in the late 80’s they made it easy to carry a weapon, within 12 months the stats for violent shootings dropped through the floor. Also Switzerland has some of the most relaxed gun control laws in the world. Their crime rate is nearly 0. Also don’t compare a small European country of 6million against a country like the US, NY alone is double that population. At this point its making me think more and more about moving to Texas. The point being is that if you don’t know what a person has or their capabilities you would think twice before fucking with them. Just a point of view, and although I find no merit to the other side of the argument, I fully respect it as a form of free speech.
I agree, that you should be able to purchase a firearm as guaranteed by your 2nd amendment. That’s your right. I personally think that the type or capacity of weapon should be limited to a point where you do not have a more powerful arsenal than the local authority. That’s just my opinion, I don’t have any fear of the government or that a foreign power will invade so take that as you will.
Regarding violence in the United States, I think a mentality of stereotyping anyone you don’t know as a threat is the root of the problem. In countries with low levels of violence, it’s because the citizens don’t see everyone they meet as a threat or someone who wants to “fuck with them”. More or less guns won’t solve this problem, it’s deeper than that. It’s probably relative the amount of disinformation that is spewed over the airwaves. A great many people seem to live in fear and that is the root for the problem.
Defense Distributed come across like a bunch of assholes who had the money to buy/rent a 3d printer. Their work is primitive, but they are definitely good at getting attention for themselves. The point really is that the timing of this is in seriously bad taste and this is nothing but a PR stunt. I don’t know whether it is good or bad that HAD likes to publicize their crap, I suppose the debate is necessary. My two cents, this is what happens when you mix subnormal intellect and abnormally small penis size with 3d printing…
I give up. The second my dimensional shift engine is working off into the Multiverse I go, away from this madness.
Oh FFS, as if 3D printing wasn’t facing enough problems with DRM, now owning one could get you on the terrorism watch list.
I give up. Does anyone have a spare dimensional shift device they don’t need?
This would still be illegal in my state. Not circumventing anything.
While it’s nearly impossible to judge for sure, but his mannerism depicts he may be only more one tough acting man, laughed at by strong men that may scare him shitless. I’d me more impressed with the build if it was built out of metal using less expensive hand tool. The family shops in Pakistan don’t need much in the way of machinery to build an AK47.
I am american, I live in NY, I dont own guns or need guns to feel safe.
I find this post and this video to be fantastic. So what if they are finding new ways to use technology to make gun parts? you cant make an entire gun from a 3-d printer, thats very laughable. Besides people like this eventually make things like “print your own car parts” or dirt bike parts and it saves me and the world $$$ and helps people..
What if the guy who invented the hammer had a government ban his invention??
What would you live in? how would your parents have had a house??
You can use ANYTHING for good or bad (literally anything) hammer- you can build a house or bash someones head in.. you choose!
which is why there is laws (in some countries) against bad things and this
“creates” the fear? deterrent of doing bad things i guess.. (which is why nothing bad happens in this country right? lol)
please dont comment on limiting 3-d printing thats just stupid.
please more on 3-d printers and what they can do.
thank you hackaday.
More people die from blunt objects like baseball bats then guns btw..
at least in america (and my street). so when is the bat ban happening?
where is the bat control?
My long mini rant on people and why americans “like” guns i use the term loosely: (this is mainly a reply to errrin) but that post didnt have a reply button for some reason?
Im not sure why america has a gun problem, maybe there is just more evil people or forces at work here? In some countries (as you say) you can ride a bike all over and not fear of having your shit stolen. I dont know of a reality like that, (having 2 bikes stolen from me at ages 13 and 16) to me that sounds like a fantasy world just waiting for the wrong people to find and discover it. (people like JP morgan lol) Oddly my bikes werent even that nice, i got them cheap and just picked up decent cheap parts to make them good. One was stolen from a friends locked garage. Alot of americas problems are because of culture gaps and expectation gaps. Some people walk around and need a bike but cant afford one, so if yours is just sitting there, they think its there lucky day! Other people seem to think its a good investment and can sell it for money (wow maybe a whole 80 bucks i dunno) So there is this mind state of maybe american street opportunity is the word? I dunno. but theres plenty of those people around and we need bike locks here to say the least. not to mention the kids in brooklyn who ride around on 20″ bikes with machetes, where is my machete control lobby? and my machete ban? lol. But 1st you have to think why do kids ride around with machetes? Prob. for protection from various gangs that have a foot hold here or to cause pranks or worse crimes. I dont bother to ask them. I used to carry pocket knives around back in the late 90’s to school. Not for fear but because i liked knives. They help open things and are pretty functional. Plus you could play with it and other kids with knives or worse would leave you alone. IE they rob the kid without the knife because people are evil and fucked up. Schools are alot better now even just 10 years later but still public school in NY is a money pit and a joke. NY spends more money than any other state but ranks 39th out of 50.. which shows.. that education performance isnt a lack of money problem! True education should get higher funding than anything else we waste money on, buuuuut its not why the kids are retarded. you can teach a kid math in the sand with a stick or on the sidewalk with chalk if they want to learn, AND they want to pay attention, but do they? no. and why? Because you cant point to the guy or girl who has a masters degree in math and say “look, look at what a great life you can have if you learn math” because you cant. Or they dont show you! There is a horrible dis proportionate rewards system in place and this gun violence is just 1 ugly side effect, which to me is a sub conscious self destructing protest to the depressing material world we live in. I wish I dropped out of school at 16 and just practiced my 3 point shot. I’d be just as successful and happy as i am now, if not a possible millionaire. In fact given the current economy it might be a better career plan. Are you half way decent at ANY sport?? just focus on that 100% I wish someone told me or fostered the idea a long time ago. Even if you stay in school, business degrees are usually over paid and easier to get so go that way. (again not helping society) There are people who go for science and engineering but again, where are they? few and far between. Can we put them on People magazine? Can I get a reality show of that! so I have a clue as to what to do with my life? and how to get that boring existence if i choose?? no.. here is teen mom. sorry, dont need to see that, lived it been there done that, I had 2 upper classmen girls bring there kids to my freshman english class in high school before they just stopped coming. Plus seniors who couldn’t read very well. but at least they could. Again how are you in 12th grade and perform at a 4th grade level? thank you NY state schools. That Also was when I was younger, its not as bad now but still a problem. You wanna diploma in your hand on graduation day NOT A BABY! This should be mentioned every year in class starting in 1st grade! They give out FREE CONDOMS and FREE BIRTH CONTROL there is no reason ANY un-married teenager in NY should have a kid..
Anyway another problem is, getting good grades doesnt = a good life. in fact it is the opposite! :( You get your pants pulled down and made fun of because you are smart, and for some reason “perceived as weak” It was pretty torturous going to a crappy school with half a brain let me tell you. tho elementary school was worse for bullying. By jr. high and high school i was left alone which was good cause worse things happened there. A kid actually got shot in my jr. high school in 1996? paralyzed for life, real shit. It was in the paper but not very big article, kids get shot in NY schools all the time (at least back then) and guess what, no one gave a shit. they still dont. which is why you grow up with the culture of… you need to defend yourself. because lazy people in charge dont wanna do there jobs.. even more so today. You have to take care of yourself otherwise you are at the mercy of the world. Which I again I can say is MUCH nicer than 15 years ago.. but still I wouldnt wanna rely on other people to help me. It’s not fair to ask and they wont do a good job all the time because why should they? they dont know me, they arent getting paid (usually) what is there motivation? Im a nice guy, I’ll save your life, but im not giving you money. Im poor. If I was rich like some people I’d send kids to school for free. But poor because I would do good stuff with money. Also crime is less because people my age grew up scared and know how shitty it was to see those things. Now im almost 30 and my generation is a little less violent and less crazy. I CAN NOT credit police 100% for this. The people are getting better (in some places). In fact with the economy so bad I dont understand the lack of crime right now. Its really baffling. You are safer now than in ANY POINT in recent human history. pretty amazing. With the over populated police force; cameras on almost every corner; you not only have cell phones to call for help WHEREVER needed but you can take a picture or video for evidence! but yet people are MORE paranoid to go out or talk to a stranger.. really baffling. In 1990 more than 8 people died a day in NYC due to homicide. Just generic homicide, by whatever force. That is, someone decided, hey, im gonna kill this person, over 8 times a day. 8.4 i think it was.. thats alot. over 3200 people a year.. Last year it was 2.1 MUCH BETTER. still not great but hey 2 out of 11 million people get killed today? I like those odds better than 8 out of a 11 million. What did you say your country had? 6 million people?? so if we double your rate we get the rate of nyc. just nyc. but i think your number was for the year not day.. but still a valid point. people throw these numbers around like canada only had 220 gun deaths. well canada only has 34 million so you’d have to times it by TEN to even compare to america and hey what do ya know its alot closer to americas numbers, but still alot less. Not as impressive but still alot less. I dont like people who skew things, totally looses any credibility to any argument, you would think, but people are dumb. (Usually the liberals do this to numbers to scare non gun liking people) Another astounding statistic is although crime is down, gun crime in cities with strict gun control laws go up after they make more laws on the restriction of guns.. how is that? More laws = equals a bigger black market, and another “american street opportunity” that i talked about earlier. Where you have people who: Cant find work, or Dont wanna work, or Would like to make easier money, AND MOST importantly people who cant find a job where they are valued, treated and compensated at a respectful level. Thus are willing to fulfill this niche market. If people were HAPPY with there lives they wouldn’t think twice about turning down a job in the black market. NO WAY I have a good job and benefits and maybe a vacation or something to look forward to. Except they don’t, and take the most money making job they can find, and after awhile you blame society and you’re a victim and in some ways we all are over here in america and then you dont care if you sell guns to 15 year olds cause hey its money and no one is gonna feed me or my family etc. etc. Which brings me to the stupid non future thinking youth of america. (not that I blame them I do understand, i do) But If you are ready to get guns and do crime, at least set your goals a little higher than some poor bastard with the night shift at 7-11, or your local bodega. I really hate reading and seeing some poor person who works some crap job and is like 45 years old and dies for 300 bucks.. Makes me wanna find the people and hang them in public as an example. If you are ready to use a gun in a crime and risk 2-7 years for robbery with a gun no matter who your robbing AND you still choose a small business or convenient store instead of a bank you are too stupid to be allowed to live. Especially if you shoot some one for 300 bucks. thats 25 years to life.. I dont know what disturbs me more, the crime or how stupid it really is in the risk vs. reward comparison. then again the schools just dumps kids on the street with diplomas who cant read. but yet the schools ask for more money, to do a just as bad job, as if the student stayed home and looked stuff up on the internet.. IN fact the kids might learn more useful things if they stayed home. They wouldn’t have to fear as much. I dont condone crime but at least make it something to live on. 300 bucks? then what, another robbery next week? gahh… dont shoot anyone at all. You’ll be surprised how fast people give you money when you put a gun or something that feels like a gun to their head. At least I gave my 10 dollars up pretty quick when i got robbed in 2011 at gun point, in this friend of a friends apt. :/ (made me wish I had a gun, after explaining my situation and the robbers still not happy, I was face to face with just the kind of people who should not be living on this earth) But, who knows, maye I would have shot and missed and then they would have shot me. I had to fake my own death after having my arms legs and entire head duct taped and left for dead in the bath tub. By the time I got free and climbed out the window and called 911 they took the girl and my friends away. My friends got away but the girl got kidnapped and sold into sex slavery. (no joke) sex trade is alive and well in america let me tell you. So a year later she gets free and has to live in witness protection because of the testimony and such. They only got 2 out of 3 of the guys, and the countless others involved I guess got nothing? So In that case maybe a gun would have helped. I know I would have liked the option. Also those kind of people are going to have guns no matter what, so when a co-worker stupidly said “see wouldn’t you like gun control to be stronger” when I explained why I missed work that day, I was amazed. 1st off NY HAS gun control and NO it obviously shows why gun control doesn’t work. I doubt the guns they had were legal guns, they were either stolen or bought on the black market..
anyway, In the other cases of reckless suicidal crazy people going on a killing spree, and killing people who you dont even know and have done no harm to you? i dunno. that I really dont have an ans. for. your basic crime I do.
In America you are NOT rewarded much for doing the right thing, and thus has spawned a culture of greed and entitlement. WE give BILLIONS in foreign aid to countries who don’t even like us or use the money we give them to help people. We should give money to kids if they get good grades. Hey you’re on the dean’s list?? Your trying to make your life better and not taking the easy crime way out?? here’s some free text books. (every college could and should have some rewards program) ohh I got a piece of paper.. thanks.. I mean WHERE is the incentive TO NOT be a criminal??
If someone is smart enough to go to school and they actually want to continue going to school, it should be free. An investment in the future and well being of the country. Instead, you are forced to decide how to get money for school. Go into debt for life, on the hunch you might get a better job, but even those aren’t that great anymore. Or find a way to “finance” your education. Back to my american street opportunities thing. 7.50 an hour at mcdonalds? (40 hours of your life) for less than 300 a week BEFORE taxes are taken out orrrrrrrrrrr?? 40 seconds in a bank for 3-7 grand.. i dunno. again im not encouraging crime but i understand.
And these losers in congress who didn’t have to pay for school or watch their friends die or make life ending decisions, are the ones who think they know how to fix things. ludicrous. seriously. Most of them haven’t even had a real job. they went to school paid for by there parents, maybe got an internship once one summer and then got elected some how. Or a job in the government somewhere, So they have NO real american life experience and have NO concept on what it is to really live here. 90% and 100% of the people I know make less than 30 thousand a year. A few with degrees in upper areas.
So no I dont trust my government because I know how naive and impractical their silly ideas are. It’s not paranoia until you try to point it out and they say “screw off” like Senator schumar and then you know they’ve been bought by companies. So even if they ARE educated on how to fix things, they wont, and at that point it is like, well, fuck it.
you are on your own. which goes back to the people in charge Not doing their jobs and there isnt much you can do about it, so the “im on my own and a gun might come in handy one day” mentality I can really understand. ESPECIALLY If I lived in the country or middle of nowhere, where a 911 call takes 25 min. to get there. I’m lucky where I live cops show up in around 5 min. which is pretty good, but still about 4 min. longer than needed, if you’re being stabbed or people are being tortured or kidnapped. But you might survive if the traffic is okay and the ambulance driver isnt “on lunch” or far away when radioed.
So recap: We live in an era where the right thing and education is not rewarded as much as doing the wrong thing or foregoing education for some other profession (sports, crime, reality TV star etc.) we have bitterness, entitlement and your on your own kinda attitude. The government doesn’t really help much, in fact they have created much of the problems. taking over the schools (they suck now) letting jobs go overseas, wasting money on frivolous ideas when it should be directly given to those trying to do something to not make society suck more.
You need to crack down and stop all this gangster bullshit NOT by building more money making prisons and police dept. but by Offering and Creating a better choice. Crime will Never go away unless people don’t wanna do it. and most people DON’T wanna do crime! its un human to hurt another it just isn’t natural, you are driven to it. 99.9% of the time. Some people are just evil or douche bags exploiting the system or human kindness (like the JP morgan’s of the world) and then you are bitter that jp morgan ripped you off and NOW the disease of criminal choice has spread to you.
IN FACT everyone ON EARTH can remember a time BEFORE or I should say THE FIRST time they got hurt by someone or got robbed or made fun of.
From that point on the process starts. You were attacked and no one did a thing to right the wrong and it grows, and happens again, and if you cant, well I envy you or more likely, you are lying or have blocked it out. WE DONT NEED GUN CONTROL we need to not be dicks to each other.
thats about it. problem solved.
Besides crazy people will always do crazy things..
they will make a dirty bomb from home made things, they will make a gun or projectile of some sort. In fact this kid in my high school made a pipe bomb and brought it into the cafeteria and tried to blow up a garbage can, half funny half scary. He got expelled after it blew up the garbage can but not much else, lol. If you banned pipe bombs he still woulda had one. if you out law guns the guy in sandy hook elementary would have one or just use a dirty bomb or make a gun or poison gas he made from an old WWI recipe. CRAZY people have time and money and WILL do stuff you cant stop! Being aware and noticing your surroundings is really the best you can do. minus armed police on every corner and at every door.. :/ but i don’t wanna live in a world like that and i don’t think you want to either..
WE MAKE viruses that kill people in 10 seconds! that you cant see or do anything about. they can stay air born for years! yet this is fine.. People should not be allowed to develop such things. Companies that do should be put in jail, the whole outfit. board of directors, employees etc. but they don’t care. In fact we fund that instead of college educations. good job. world. Lots of countries waste money on virus development. Im much more scared of something I cant see hear or smell or feel and cant stop. then a gun. wow.
guns are the least of our worries trust me.
but thats why americans “like” guns. I use the term “like” loosely.
oh and some people hunt too but im not really exposed to that kinda life.
but if you’re feeding yourself more power to you! god bless.
sport? i dunno. not much sport in shooting something that cant shoot back, HOWEVER bear and coyote/wolf populations do have to be thinned. Especially if they are attacking your live stock and thats how you make money. so i dunno. grey area. target shooting sport is awesome tho.
and thats all the reasons why people own guns, that i can think of.
People should NOT be allowed to diss guns until they have held a few and shot some targets as well. Thats like outlawing hammers because every so often the tool is used for a bad thing.. and in fact more people die from hammers than guns in america. look it up.
thanks for reading have a nice day.
– george
@George: How many people get killed from blunt objects in the US? Do you actually have specifics to back up the assertion that more people get killed by blunt trauma?
The reason I ask is because in the 8 or so weeks since Newtown, more that 1000 have died from guns.
It sounds crazy that 1000 people could have died from guns in such a short time but I saw that number during a senate hearing on the subject where in the 6 weeks following the massacre, over 900 had died from gun violence so I did a little digging and sure enough it’s over 1000 now: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html
If 1000 have been killed since Newtown and more get killed from blunt force, you’ve got some serious troubles going on.
Meanwhile, during the same time frame…
3300+ people have been killed by vicious, evil cars with shoulder things that go up.
290 people have been drowned by assault pools.
Want to save lives? BAN POOLS AND CARS!
WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?
OFFS, Bill… spewing BS about pools, cars and seatbelts doesn’t add to the conversation. We’re talking about intent here not accidents. Do you have anything intelligent to add?
Yes, Andrew, merely insult your opposition and ignore facts. That’s the right way to do it.
Let’s give you some more facts you can ignore: More people are murdered by bludgeoning than rifles of ALL kinds including evil black scary rifles with shoulder things that go up with assault banana clips.
http://i.imgur.com/BKyACSf.jpg
Hey Bill, you haven’t presented an argument and I haven’t insulted you, unless by virtue of asking questions and clarifying the point of discussion is taken as an insult.
So back on point, I have seen a lot of comments suggesting that many more people are killed via blunt force trauma as opposed to gun violence. I’ve seen a lot of charts showing huge numbers (1300+) of people killed in just the past two months since Newtown…
I’m not saying that blunt force trauma numbers are lower or higher but rather than cap the assertion with “look it up”, provide some numbers with references. Otherwise it looks like deflection rather than fact a based point to argue with.
Reading comprehension fail on your part if you don’t see the argument and don’t think you are flinging insults. Goes right along with the inability to comprehend facts.
Bill, That is an outstanding chart (http://i.imgur.com/BKyACSf.jpg), thanks for sharing. It’s exactly what I was hoping to see.
So if I read that correctly, there are 21 times more ‘Murder by any firearm’ than ‘murder by bludgeons’.
Thank you.
And more than three times as many people are killed by drugs. BAN DRUGS NOW!
Oh wait, we did that. How well did that work?
Well, I can’t say I disagree that there is a drug problem but in this case it’s not about drugs (or cars), it’s about guns and in this case guns and… Hammers? Well it started out being about guns but somewhere along the way hammers have been thrown into the mix too.
During the debate about guns being overwhelmingly used to kill, some debaters have floated theories like the one about more murders being committed using hammers or what have you but they don’t include any citations. Your chart is the first statistical information I’ve seen on the subject and it shows otherwise. As a matter of fact, it shows that ‘Murder by any Firearms’ is three times higher than ‘Murder by all other means’. Three times higher. So for every one possible means of murder, three are committed by a gun. That sounds about right.
Anyway, thanks for sharing that info. It does a lot to balance the facts to noise ratio.
But by all means we should ban inanimate objects rather than behavior. Nobody has smoked a single crack rock since “paraphernalia” to do so was banned. If you go down the path of banning inanimate tools because of how they MIGHT be used, then pretty much every tool ever used, right back to the rock, would have to be banned. Rocks CAN be used for murder, so they must be banned. That’s your logic.
Guns CAN be used for murder, but OVERWHELMINGLY they are not. Of 300,000,000 guns in the USA, fewer than 11,000 are used to commit murder. Let me do the math for you: That’s 0.0000% [sic] used to commit murder. Clearly they should be banned! At what percentage of usage for murder would you draw the line?
Now let’s build on the POTUS’s statement that we should act if we can save even one life. Did you read about the lady in Georgia who had to shoot an invader in her home six times before he decided not to kill her and her two children? There’s three lives saved by a gun. There are millions more incidents like that every year. Police and ordinary citizens defending their lives and the lives of others with a firearm. Even the most conservative (most Liberal?) of studies found that firearms are used in self-defense 65,000 times a year. So you would save 11,000 lives (assuming criminals suddenly and miraculously decide to obey the law after the 22,001st gun law gets past…) at the possible expense of no less than 65,000 lives? (cite: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1615397/)
Seems to me if the POTUS and VPOTUS and you weren’t hypocrites, you would all be shouting at the top of your lungs that firearms laws kill people.
P.S. How much do you know about firearms? Ever shot one? Handled one?
Well, there you go name calling again… And you don’t even know my position on gun laws. Interesting method of discussion you have there. Call people names and accuse them of subscribing to the extremes of an argument when the point out a few facts. How’s that work for you in the real world?
Yes, I’ve handled and owned guns. I know how to maintain, load and fire them.
As for your argument that “Guns CAN be used for murder, but OVERWHELMINGLY they are not”, I would direct you to the statistics that you provided and say that overwhelmingly they are used at a 3-to-1 ratio for all other methods of murder.
Unless your facts are wrong, I can’t see how there can be any question that guns are overwhelmingly used for murder when compared to other methods. Can you?
But that’s not a valid comparison if you want to save lives. Since a minimum of 65,000 lives are saved by guns, and possibly as many as 2,000,000 lives are saved, where are your statistics that other items are overwhelmingly used to save lives and so firearms aren’t needed?
Yeah but that’s a circular argument because how many of the lives that were saved (of the 65,000) were threatened by guns?
I haven’t see any reputable facts about the number of lives saved by guns with details about what the threat was but my bet is that is was a bad guy with a gun.
If they make that after the law or take it to certain states they will get in big trouble.
Some day we just might learn how to treat sick people and punish criminals. We might also figure out how to be tolerant of each other, take responsibility and maybe, just maybe stop fearing the things we don’t understand.
But then come the politics where any hopeful dreams like that are utterly smashed. Seems I also recall a message somewhere that says, “abandon hope all ye who enter here” too. Any more, that place is starting to look more and more like Washington D.C.! So please don’t let it spread to Hack-A-Day.
No one should condemn or even belittle anyone else for wanting to learn. Even if the subject matter happens to be firearms or war! Personally, I would hope any such students would want to find better things to do with their time but if that’s what they want to do then let them be. Just be prepared to take any and all appropriate action including extermination of any real evil at any given time. And I can think of no better tools to be prepared with than to have the exact same tools anyone else has who might act against me – or my country.
I don’t think no one here actually understands what is being done and why they are actually passing gun control laws. It has nothing to do with the mass shootings that have happened. It has everything to do with disarming everyone so Agenda 21 can be implemented with as little conflict as possible.
For some reason, the “3D printed AR-15 lower receiver” thread is locked:
http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/
So this is the closest related thread for this news. Here is an update on printed lower receivers, with a video showing extended firing time:
http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAW72Y_XPF4