Jerry Seinfeld launched his career with Bee Movie, an insect-themed animated feature that took the world by storm in 2007. It posed the quandary – that supposedly, according to all known laws of aviation, bees should not be able to fly. Despite this, the bee flies anyway, because bees don’t care what humans think is impossible.
The quote isn’t easily attributed to anyone in particular, but is a cautionary tale about making the wrong assumptions in an engineering context. Yes, if you model a bee using the same maths as an airliner, of course you’ll find that it shouldn’t be able to fly. Its tiny wings can’t possibly generate enough lift to get its body off the ground. But that’s because the assumption is an erroneous one – because bees don’t fly in the same way planes do. Bees flap their wings. But that’s just the beginning. The truth is altogether more complex and interesting!
Flapping Wings and Dynamic Stall
Regular planes have fixed wings that are, for all intents and purposes, relatively rigid. There is some structural flexibility, but from an aerodynamic standpoint, it doesn’t have a significant effect. These wings generate lift when moving through the air at speed, thanks to their airfoil shape. Increase the angle of the wing relative to the airflow, for example, by pitching up the aircraft, and the wing will generate more lift. This angle is called the angle of attack. Increase it too far, and the flow will separate from the wing, and it will stop producing lift entirely. This is called a stall. Without lift, planes fall out of the sky.
Bees, like birds, and many insects, don’t have fixed wings – instead, they flap their wings to generate both propulsion and lift. The wings are flapped in an incredibly complex motion, with the wing rotating throughout the downstroke and upstroke in order to maximise efficiency. The key to creating high lift with a flapping wing is down to a variety of complex fluid mechanisms.
The first is the generation of a strong leading edge vortex through a phenomenon known as dynamic stall, or absence of stall. This is where the wing is at an incredibly high angle of attack on the downstroke and upstroke, which causes the airflow over the wing to seperate, generating a large vortex attached to the leading edge of the wing. This vortex remains attached to the wing, thanks to flow features generated along the span of the wing, in much the same way as delta wings work on aircraft. By keeping this vortex attached, the wing is able to generate high lift thanks to the pressure difference across the wing that would otherwise be absent if the vortex were allowed to dissipate.
The second is down to rotational effects. It’s possible to rotate the wing either before changing stroke direction, during change of stroke direction, or after changing stroke direction. When the wing rotates, this motion adds to the circulation in the existing vortexes around the wing. Doing this in advance of a stroke change, the added circulation in the air creates a boost to the lift generated by the wing; doing it after creates a negative lift force. Doing it symmetrically creates both positive and negative lift peaks throughout the full wingbeat. By varying the point of rotation, it’s possible to vary the lift generation on each flap of the wings.
Other complex mechanisms have also been observed in various types of insects and birds, with many species displaying unique and varied flapping techniques. One technique observed in butterflies is that of wing-wake interaction. A wake is a flow regime seen in a fluid behind a moving object; most commonly observed by humans as the changing flow behind a boat travelling through water. This exists for wings in air as well. In wing-wake interaction, the motion of the wing during flapping creates an interaction between the wing’s flow and the wake shed by the previous flapping motion. As the wake in the air consists of fluid moving because of the flapping wings, interacting with this wake to generate more lift allows the insect to recapture some of the energy already expended to improve its efficiency.
Another commonly cited mechanism is the “clap and fling”, where the wings on either side of an insect are clapped together at the top of the upstroke, squeezing out air between them that helps generate thrust, before flinging apart to begin the downstroke. As the wings peel apart, they create a low-pressure zone between them that sucks in air and helps build circulation during the downstroke. However, this method is not used by all species, and only used in certain flight regimes, so is not a critical component of regular flapping wing flight.
Overall, the fluid mechanics behind flapping wing flight is incredibly complex. A basic understanding of fluid mechanics is required even to parse this very simple explainer, let alone truly dive into the topic. Flapping wing flight is still not completely understood, and is an area of ongoing research around the world. One of the reasons for this is the high level of difficulty involved in studying these phenomena.
Particularly with regard to insect flight, the flow regimes are tiny and difficult to visualise. This has led to techniques such as building robotic analogues of insect wing systems at larger scales and moving the wing surfaces through tanks of mineral oil to better see and understand the mechanisms at play. This allows techniques such as dye visualization to be used, giving insights into the complex three-dimensional flow regimes. Other work involves studying birds, which are larger and easier to observe, and running computer models. However, it’s always necessary to directly study the real thing to confirm any theory.
Regardless of the complexity, the old adage that “bees can’t fly” is provably false, and rooted more in making inappropriate engineering assumptions than any major physical paradox. As always, when running simulations, it pays to make sure you’re modelling the right thing at the get-go.
Jerry Seinfeld launched his career. . . did I miss something?
The joke, apparently.
Newman…
I didn’t notice any jokes. Too many buzzwords.
“Jerry Seinfeld launched his career with Bee Movie” err, nope; that movie was released almost a decade after the TV show ended. And the BS inspirational “quandary” has been around longer than Jerry Seinfeld.
Now I can continue reading the fine article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke
That’s rude, and why would ignorance be a joke? You really think that when somebody reads an incorrect statement, the correct inference is that it is a super-subtle, mean-spirited insult to the person mentioned?
And that they’re somehow deficient for not thinking that way?
And that the correct response when people don’t “get” your “joke” is to insult them publicly?
You should just apologize, Lewin. And correct your mistake in the article, instead of claiming it was a joke.
I assumed it was an innocent mistake. He’s the one who gave an arrogant *whoosh* at someone who didn’t get his jokje.
I also didn’t take ignorance to be a joke. But I guess with his dumbass *whoosh*, he’s the one who thinks it is.
Lewin’s a heck of a lot more rude than I am here.
Could you then explain the joke to us, who do not understand it?
Explaining jokes always makes them funnier.
The gag here is that Seinfeld was possibly the most famous, and well paid, comedian of the 1990s. His Bee Movie wasn’t all that big a hit. The idea that a famous comedian would become famous for possibly his least well-known work, fully a decade after he “retired”, is an inversion. Humans often find these inversions humorous.
Huh??
Hate to BEE that guy but, Seinfeld had a career way before Bee movie.
Considering some consider him the Shakespeare of comedy, he would have been great in Hamlet with such notable lines as, To BEE or not to BEE.
That makes a lot more sense – I cat stand Shakespeare OR Seinfeld
“Jerry Seinfeld launched his career with Bee Movie, ”
Um….what?
A whole Internet of information at the author’s fingertips and they couldn’t even do a simple fact check of what amounts to basic trivia.
Is that a worse sin than posters that can’t deal with imperial/metric in articles?
No,
Dual or multi-part measurement systems should not exist, and no one can be blamed for the issues involved except for those who introduced the second and later measurement systems, which are clearly not needed on account of their not being accepted.
I think that it’s simply a lack of life experience (eg. They are young) couples with a dearth of funding that means very little pay for the articles.
If I wasn’t getting paid very much I certainly wouldn’t invest a bunch of time into writing an article, and if I was young and/or inexperienced I might not know that jerry seinfeld has had an extremely long comedy career.
Now, how to fix it? Idk. Maybe a patreon type system where authors could be sponsored to write articles, coupled with some kind of insider early release content and/or badges for supporters…
It’s called a joke, mate, you might want to familiarise yourself with them. They’re quite common things.
The imperial system is a joke
Take it easy, please… The site is great, has (as you say) many good projects by really smart people and it is free. It also contains a healthy dose of humor, puns, tongue-in-cheek comments, etc. May be it takes a little while to get the “zen” of it to fully enjoy each visit. I think I could not write technical articles better than the ones we find here everyday, so: Thank you Hackaday ! You are the “piece-de-resistance” in my breakfast everyday.
Best regards,
A/P Daniel F. Larrosa
Montevideo – Uruguay
The guy who launched an entire new holiday celebration in December 1997 then launched his career in a 2007 movie that nobody saw? :-) Oh well, HaD lead-in paragraphs. At least it doesn’t have the “We all saw Seinfeld launch his career….”
More on the dynamics and trajectory of wings: https://jeb.biologists.org/content/210/8/1362.figures-only
Do Hackaday writers get better rankings for comments, boosting their engagement score like on YouTube?
No.
Then maybe you should stop writing like you do.
What do you mean?
I think the implication is that since the joke about the Bee movie that you started with got more comments than the actual substance of the article you must have done it deliberately to get more comments and engagement. And if you did it deliberately it suggests you have some incentive like a better ranking or compensation pegged to comment count. I doubt that’s the case. No offense but doing it by accident is a lot easier and as the Coca Cola executive famously said “we’re not that smart or that stupid”.
I don’t really think the joke is that obtuse but it does seem to have derailed the conversation which is a shame. So maybe Steven13 has a point. Sarcasm is always a tricky thing to convey in text. Maybe don’t do that?
Don’t worry about it, it’s just the typical HaD negative nellie commenters.
I see. Lewin’s joke fell flat. Sorry about that.
FWIW: Jerry Seinfeld was in a show with Julia Luis-Dreyfus for a couple seasons before the bee movie in question. I’m trying to remember what it was about, but I come up with nothing.
No fun allowed
I’m waiting for this newfangled flying to come to drones (artificial ones).
Could work on tiny ones, not sure it scales up much though.
Ornithopters?
+1
It’s an ornithopter if it flies like a bird. If it flies like a bee it would be an apicopter or something.
hmmm, probably api-opter is more correct, I’m thinking the c in helicopter comes from helices. Then if the pter in that is the same pter as in pterodactyl, then we’ve been pronouncing helicopter and ornithopter very wrong for years.
You can get a decent orinthopter for about 30 bucks on Amazon/ebay. I got one just to see if it could fly. I’ve had birds fly in formation with it, they must think it’s circling some yummy food. When it don’t land they fly away! My dog ended up taking it down too many times, he was really proud of himself though!
Bees create vortexes, spin their wings around, and press down on the vortexes for extra lift. Whoah!
And 100% of the comments about Jerry Seinfeld…
It is the first line of the story and glaringly incorrect, of course people will comment on it…
I just assumed it was a meme or sarcasm…
You just have to learn how to skip the fluff and get right to the useful information.
Space news sites are good for training:
You eventually know where they hide the useful info like the one maintenance issue that Crew Dragon suffered, after its record number of days in space… was that they needed to clean some lint out of a seal.
They somehow build an entire article out if this one statement. ;)
Yep, it was obvious they’d misspelled “sank”.
I saw a trailer for it where they had been pretending they were doing a cheesy live action version that turned out to be a disaster before switching to CGI. I’d much rather have seen the live action one; it had some potential for “so bad, it’s good.”
You do realize the whole concept of outer space travel that we have been shown on tv is completely phony. It’s basically a giant television production that we have been tricked into believing is real.
So glaringly incorrect that you’d think everyone would realize that it’s tongue-in-cheek. Then again, this site does by its nature attract a demographic known less for social intuition and more for ruthless pedantry.
I was expecting a debate over vortices/vortexes.
Oh god.
vortii :-P
I think the joke stalled out. It flew over the head of our readers. It could bee worse, but the comments are kind of stinging.
Stop!! You’re killing me with these puns!
Allergy is a bad thing
” Increase it too far, and the flow will separate from the wing, and it will stop producing lift entirely. This is called a stall.”
This is an area that is still under discussion involving aircraft.
You can model lift as circulation, or as vacuum formed above the wing through acceleration of the air, or possibly some other models.
However, one component of lift is acceleration of air mass downwards by the bottom of the wing. This is relatively independent of wing shape: all you need is a flat plate with a lot of thrust to get this.
That component of lift is still present at high angles of attack, after flow separation from the upwards surface (aka stall). Depending on your flight conditions, it may account for 0-50% of your lift.
The issue is the stepwise reduction in overall lift when stall occurs, from enough to balance the aircraft weight to definitely not enough to do so. But if you’re at a high angle of attack, there will still be lift post-stall, just not enough. (and once you’ve stalled you’re likely to see big changes in angle of attack that may reduce what lift remains.)
Definitely still a lot going on in aerodynamics. Doug McLean | Common Misconceptions in Aerodynamics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKCK4lJLQHU
There are a lot of model aircraft that fly quite well with nothing for wings but flat pieces of foamcore board. Thanks to powerful and lightweight LiIon batteries and brushless electric motors to essentially make Anime aerodynamics real. Put enough thrust on and you can make anything fly.
Thrust (+ change in potential energy) = Lift + Drag. Plane stays in the air if Lift > Weight.
You can either work on improving the lift/drag ratio, or just pump more power in the front end.
Models with flat wings fly well b/c a good percentage of “real airfoil” lift, at slow model speeds, comes from just pushing the air downwards The flat-wing planes are worse, but not really that much worse, and a bigger engine is often the path of least resistance.
True that. Up the amps and you’re in the air!
Jerry Seinfeld launching his career with Bee Movie? Pretty sure creating and starring in Frasier is what launched his career, try again author! Honestly, this generation…
It’s a joke. Our generation has a quirky sense of humor.
Wait…
I was going to go with Cheers. But someone still managed to miss the joke! Is this the most troll laden comment thread on HaD or is something in the water? :)
Man, for all the intelligent people that frequent this site there sure are a lot idiots.
Interesting article, I always hated that “Bees shouldn’t be able to fly” comment.
Wasn’t that bumble bees originally?
Dear god, I thought I was going to come into the comments to find complaints about the description of aircraft lift being rather bogus… only to find everyone here being completely incapable of understanding a pretty straightforward joke.
I really shouldn’t be surprised.
The titel says something about science, so i expected to read something including science.
Except it wasn’t straight forward nor funny.
Otherwise people wouldn’t make such a big thing of it.
It was incredibly straightforward and I actually laughed out loud.
I think a few people here are hurt that the comments they made after missing the joke were met with laughter. Embarrassment hurts but jeez get over yourselves, I laugh my ass off at myself when I fall for something silly like that. It’s a better way to live a life haha
I absolutely hated the Bee Movie. Bees can speak human? Some how all zillions of their population except one decided to kept quiet about it? And not only they can speak, they have lawyers too? And somehow all plants need insects to pollinate? And bees are the only insect which can pollinate? And somehow pollination will turn witted plants into healthy plant?
I’d say the Bee Movie is poisoning our young’s mind.
Cmon man one of the best films of 2007. Ya gotta check out emoji movie too, A+++ movies
Careful recommending those, several countries have laws against inciting other people to self-harm.
The biggest flaw in the Bee Movie I always thought is that worker bees are all female and there’s only a few males per hive who are the queen’s f**kboys.
According to all known laws of aviation…