Over on his YouTube channel [Ryan Inis] has a video about how electrostatic motors are breaking all the rules.
He explains that these days most motors are electromagnetic but suggests that may be changing as the age-old principles of electrostatics are being explored again, particularly due to the limited supply of rare-earth magnets and other materials (such as copper and steel) which are used in many electromagnetic motors.
[Ryan] says that new electrostatic motors could be the answer for highly efficient and economical motors. Conventional electromagnetic motors pass current through copper windings which create magnetic fields which are forces which can turn a rotor. The rotor generally has permanent magnets attached which are moved by the changing magnetic forces. These electromagnetic motors typically use low voltage and high current.
Electrostatic alternatives are actually an older design, dating back to the 1740s with the work of Benjamin Franklin and Andrew Gordon. These electrostatic motors generate motion through the attraction and repulsion of high voltage electric charges and demand lower current than electromagnetic motors. The high voltages involved create practical problems for engineers who need to harness this energy safely without leading to shocks or sparks or such.
[Ryan] goes on to discuss particular electrostatic motor designs and how they can deliver higher torque with lower energy losses due to friction and heat making them desirable for various applications, particularly industrial applications which demand low speed and high torque. He explains the function of the rotor and stator and says that these types of motors use 90% less copper than their electromagnetic alternatives, also no electrical steel and no permanent magnets.
For more coverage on electrostatic motors check out Electrostatic Motors Are Making A Comeback.
High voltage motors full of mystery fluid, think I’ll pass on that. They’re going to leak one day and that sounds like a hassle.
You… say that like it’s a bad thing…
Aren’t electromagnetic high power motors also liquid cooled?
@Glaskows I worked as a electric motor rebuilder for a while many years ago and no, most motors are not liquid cooled with a few exceptions. The motors used in ponds to create “fountains” are oil filled for cooling and water resistance purposes. There are also elevator pump motors which sit in an oil bath which also cools the motor. We worked on motors that you could hold in one hand up to 7500 horsepower(5592 kilowatt) @ 15000 volts AC.
Area 51?
It sounded like 7500 hp motor that you could hold in your hand. And so the area 51 comment.
Just saw another article about a 56 mw motor. My like 90 million horsepower! Just one of those days .
Everything is liquid cooled if you get it hot enough!
By the same argument you could say that an electromagnetic motor is inevitably going to burn out a winding.
There are countless applications where a sealed motor is never going to leak – especially since they’re currently targetting high-torque/low-speed jobs which are a lot less taxing on sealing rings. A customer is going to be looking at energy and maintenance costs, and if they’re lower than an equivalent electromagnetic motor then by definition it’s less of a hassle.
i agree with you that the seals might be “good enough” and that the overall cost-benefit might point towards electrostatic. but i was triggered by your analogy, which i found to be entirely wrong :)
an electromagnetic motor burns a winding when it is run out of spec for a long time. it’s a rare event and effectively impossible in many situations.
a seal on a moving object is going to fail. the seal will become brittle over time. every movement will cause erosion. and movement plus brittleness will also cause eventually cause cracking. it is 100%. seals always fail if left in service long enough. absolutely no exceptions.
the idea that other things have rare failure modes therefore the 100% failure rate of seals is dismissable is preposterous. maybe the 100% failure rate doesn’t matter, can be ameliorated in some way. but seals always fail.
The insulating enamel on the motor windings experiences electrostatic stress and will eventually break down, strike through and carbonize, which leads to a shorted winding. It doesn’t need overheating, though that makes the whole process run faster.
There are 100 year old motors that still run, but I wouldn’t bet that they’d run another 100 years.
Mystery fluid… Looking at existing insulating liquids, I take bets on how much fluorine in in those compounds and whether it’s cancer juice or yet another forever chemical.
My thoughts exactly. It sounds like those now-infamous cooling fluids (fluorinert etc) used in early high performance computers (Cray etc). Googling liquid dielectics, it sounds like a lot of them have been discontinued as part of 3M’s divestiture from PFAS.
Is it Brawndo?
its what motors crave
Or it’s just baby oil (mineral oil).
I think there is always a compromise between risks and profits of certain technological solutions. Combustion engines, even two stroke ones or steam-powered turbines do not want to die out…
How many fluids are in your car now?
I can get them all at the parts store, I suspect this one is going to be a bit harder to find, ie one supplier.
I’ve tried to watch Ryan’s videos but they are so frequently just him uncritically reading out a press release with perhaps a little added context / basic explanation – and often with errors or including shall we say generous assumptions made in said press release without question.
Same feeling from this video. He basically just quotes the manufacturers claims on efficiency etc.
I mean; nice to know there is some alternative technology, but marketing claims don’t show anything.
He lost me when he categorically claimed that electromagnetic motors required rare earth minerals.
And I don’t need to watch any of his videos now you’ve said that.
One more for the ‘do not recommend’ list.
Hacker here. I wanted to know how it works. Still don’t.
there are some publicly available papers that seem to do a good job on explaining how they world. im still reading through some so i cant tell you which is best
Hi there. There’s a good intro to electrostatic motors on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_motor — I will update this post with a link.
From my own experience: even on standard industrial servo motors the voltages created on the rotor due to eddy currents make lots of problems in the bearings. I guess when we talk now of eletrostatic motors, the bearing industry will be happy to supply their ceramic bearings en mass :)
The dielectric constant of air is 1.0, and deionized water’s dielectric constant is around 80.
(Well it WOULD be funny if they were talking about using water.)
If the sea of static from which static is drawn is constantly being replenished, would that mean there is effectively unlimited static?
Static is to voltage as current is to magnetism? then static is cold and magnetism is hot? How then is the sea affected by temperature perturbations?
Is one a drain and another an eruption? or are they both both, the difference locale?