Two of the talks at HOPE X Saturday revolved around Daniel Ellsberg and Edward Snowden. Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you’ve heard of Snowden when he leaked thousands of classified NSA documents to several media outlets. The older readers may remember Ellsberg who released government documents, known as the Pentagon Papers, pertaining to government decisions made during the Vietnam War. It was a popular topic here as all three conference rooms were dedicated to the the talks and all three were completely filled to the point that staff again had to turn people away. Luckily, even if you couldn’t make it into a conference room you could still watch it as all talks are streamed live via the HOPE website.
Regardless whether you feel these two are heroes or traitors, the talks were interesting with both giving accounts of their story. Each interview was about an hour long.
Ellsberg, who was here in person, talked about his entire experience and why he felt it necessary to reveal the classified documents he had secretly made copies of. Even though Ellsberg did release what he felt was evidence that the government knew that the war could most likely not be won and would cause many more casualties, he does still feel that some things are necessary for the government to keep secret. He gave an estimate that 95% of the documents classified are over-classified at the time of document creation and after a few years only 0.5% of the those documents are still classified correctly, the remaining 99.5% still over-classified.
Snowden, who was available by video, was warmly welcomed and applauded by the attendees of the conference. During the talk he discussed that he did not feel that some of the NSA’s actions he was aware of were constitutional, specifically collecting enormous amounts of data of not only ‘people of interest’, but of everyday american citizens. Snowden feels that we, as a community, give too much trust in our electronic devices. He went on to suggest that the population do what it can to minimize the capability of organizations to monitor communications and track data. He urged that people, with the capability, help educate others on how to interact with technology safely, reliably and in a way that serves the interest of all people, not just a select few.
Let us know what you think below in the comments.
“heros”->”heroes”
fixed it, thanks!
caught the last hour of audio, and will be broadcasting related material – https://indyradio.info/content/snowden-and-ellsberg-live-hope
This post is opinionated and biased
How so?
self evident – unless you are opinionated and biased
Anyone who disagrees with my undisclosed and undefended opinions are opinionated and biased.
opinionated: It would be pretty boring if everyone says the same thing over and over again. Someone got to express his/her views.
biased: You can label anyone biased. There are distinctions between center-left, center-center, north ease south, west etc.
The only post that aren’t any have no contents.
Which is your opinion…durrrrrr
Some values go far beyond national borders and interests. They’re heroes, period, and I would regard them as such even if they leaked compromising document of my own country.
Now, how does my id being added to an international watch list sound like? :)
You are a free thinking individual, you will be watched (everyone is being watched by someone these days, well not watched more like logged maybe). According to the NSA your Fourth Amendment rights has not been violated (if you are American) because a human being has not looked at the logs. Machines processing and distilling the data is fine, as long as a human never looks at the raw data that generated the results.
Then let’s hope military weaponized drones aren’t among those machines that can be fed with those data without technically violating individual rights.
Snowden is an hero. Bremer should look up to him and grow a sweet stache.
nobel prize nominie.
He’s a traitor. He even said himself “These leakers have no idea what they are even leaking…they should be shot in the balls”. He didnt go through a whistleblower channel, not ANY of them, and also ruined another man’s career and family in the process.
Snowden didnt tell us ANYTHING we didnt know already. PERIOD. He stole 3 laptops, possibly with classified hardware on them…so now Russia, CHina, EVERYONE will now break any intercepted message in the past present and future. “WHAT A HERO”.
Snowden should be shot for treason. He fits every legal definition of it. Go be butthurt in your replies. Call me names. I dont care. You’re wrong. Period.
Snowden is a TRAITOR. Show me he isnt.
Besides the idiot low-information voters out there waking up, someone tell me ONE THING that has changed since then. NOTHING. What will change? NOTHING. Not ONE of you have the guts or the balls to do anything about it. Nothing personal; you CANT do anything, unless you want to lose your job, your home, etc…government is not going to ever make a move to reduce its own power…if any of you STILL support this administration, you’re a sad case.
ah, reverse-psychology, I see what you did there ;) ;) ;)
Anyone who thinks Snowden a traitor is an idiot.
Why? Because while the wiretap may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
How did this happen? Who’s to blame?
Well, certainly, there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable.
But again, truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.
We know why you did it. We know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the NSA.
They promised you order, they promised you peace, and all they demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.
What a dilemma on one’s hands: to stay put in a state that shoots down passenger airliners in order to avoid prosecutorial proceedings in another state that claims personal freeodms, shit man
Russia would lose everything by shooting down a civillian plane, its something they needed to avoid at all costs, Ukraine and USA on the other hand, it would be like hitting a goldmine for them if a plane was shot down and all the blame would somehow go to the Ruskies. Makes you think….
Well, both states have shoot down inocent passenger airliners (US killed all 290 people aboard Iran Air Flight 655 also by “mistake”) so that doesn’t seem that should make any diference.
Wow, that is the most biased wikipedia article I’ve read in a long time. Read it carefully, and you will notice, except if you are anti-USA as well.
Yeah, of course, that must be it. You already know that are welcome to edit any of them to suit your unbiased patriotic USA fuck yeah taste then…
Give an example please.
Just saying it’s obvious is obviously a troll move, since it can’t be disputed.
Don’t bother asking such questions. The NSA’s social media trolling spambot still isn’t able to answer to that level of intelligence.
Don’t think that it’s something like Watson but more as ELIZA spitting precooked generic replies triggered by key words.
I have a feeling the Russians are currently really regretting giving the rebels any support (if that’s where they got the SAM from..) right at this point. Of course they have to deny any involvement which makes them look pretty suspect but I don’t think they would have ever commanded that the rebel dumb asses shoot down a civilian plane.
I think this a good warning to any country considering sticking their nose into conflicts between countrymen. Look how messed up both sides in Syria are now. Any country that would consider giving the rebels there weapons now is totally bananas but at the start of the conflict that’s what a lot of countries considered doing.
HOPE there is a recording of the interviews available somewhere. Bummer I missed it. :,,,((
Yes, here:
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/686369/events/3195566
A Snowden dunking booth would have been better. I will relish reading his obituary.
Why?
Because he is a lecherous traitor. I’m sorry the rest of the world didn’t pay attention in school but most of his “groundbreaking” info is old hat and was hosted on cryptome 10 years ago. Also, he is a douche. Look at the paranoid morons on here-all tied into the grid, scraping whatever data they want for their projects and then somehow surprised that big brother does it too. I just laugh and am glad that power is there to see what Beavis and Butthead episodes I am watching or how my niece is growing up in pics thru email. I could give a toot. They aren’t coming to arrest me (or probably) even you. The ACLU would have let everyone in the world know by putting flyers on their windshields. It is all political BS. That is why.
I could also tell you that Hillary is gonna take it this round (thanks undocumented voting base) and that Christie is just a gop throw away this round in a bid to let things get so bad that the pendulum will swing in their favor. I can only imagine what the AHA will look like after all of that is over but it won’t matter anyway because China will somehow take everyone’s data from SIN2net and we will all get emancipation from student loans and new ssns that will wipe the credit system into shambles (whatever is left of it). Hopefully bitcoin and Oculus VR will also be long distant memories of hype by then too. That is why.
False outrage is false.
“’m sorry the rest of the world didn’t pay attention in school but most of his “groundbreaking” info is old hat and was hosted on cryptome 10 years ago.”
1. It has reached most of the world just now, so it’s good there is a debate.
2. It has more credibility now
3. It concerns things newer than 10 years ago, i don’t see how that could have been posted than.
4. Different countrys just feel differenct about privacy. In Germany most people thought (naively) that the US are the good guys, well atm after guys from the us tapped the cellphone of merkel most people are pretty pissed. (Which unfortunately damages mostly american businesses like dropbox, facebook ect. who probably are not fans of the nsa themselves)
Debate from people that store their lives in “the cloud” lol. Although there are current iterations of spy devices more geared toward newer protocols, the early transatlantic burnout chips were used for 12 years before they were let out of the rest of the world. Sorry I had an interest in the cold war. Germany has its own spook goons and you should really look into that as it has been a nice hub to tap into European chatter. We monitor your monitors, so to speak. Everyone spies unless they live in a country that can’t drill wells and has farm animals on the public buses. Information is power and people pay money for it. Heck, Carnivore was a major recruiting point for the FBI and CIA back in the early 90s. They came to our campus for job week.
What kind of troll garbage is this? Real convincing arguments. Go watch some more beavis n butthead idiot and keep your dumbass remarks to yourself.
I think I will. They certainly pay more attention to the world around them than your ignorant ass and are way more entertaining. Probably why there is not a “figureitout” cartoon. It is a public forum, dude. I had to read your dumbass remark. Get used to it. Anyway, have good sheepling :)
If only there were a drinking game for each time the government violates your right…
Hope you just took a shot…
(You would die of alcohol poisoning within 30 minutes.)
30 milliseconds is more like it.
It’s too bad that so many Americans have missed the point of Snowden. As they say, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We actually need dozens more like him.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Freedumb! F’k Yeah!
I don’t understand that view. I have tried, but have failed.
If you believe in law and order, what he did was a good thing. He outed illegal activities, just like any respectable person would do.
If you believe in a strong America, what he did was a good thing. He showed that all of that spying did nothing to stop the Boston bombing. He showed that we are hurting our allies. He showed that there is a huge amount of monetary waste going to clearly ineffective program.
If you are a humanitarian, what he did was a good thing. Every despot, dictator, and authoritarian the world over would love to have what we have. Many genocides and similar tragedies started with an accounting of the masses, their comings, goings, and affiliations.
I just don’t get it. From every angle this is a good thing. The only people that would be hurt by this is the people that are sucking up everyone’s secrets along with billions of dollars in funding for nothing. Why? Why is this a bad thing? No one can seem to answer that question without using language and twisted thoughts that would make a three year old look brilliant.
“From every angle this is a good thing. ”
Every is a strong word. For a possible counterexample to this read here:
https://www.facebook.com/jasontaylor7777777/posts/10201854006975377?comment_id=10202564297572198&offset=0&total_comments=9
The comment starts, “Did Snowden just help kill …”
That is nothing more than a link to your own facebook page rambling on and attempting to use basic physics and chemistry that you got wrong. There isn’t even anything related to Snowden in the entire rant. There is nothing even pertinent let alone a weasely affirming-the-antecedent counterexample that you baited by stating ‘The comment starts, “Did Snowden just help kill …”’
Your post, both here and there, is mind bogglingly outside the realm of reason or reality, lacking in substance and educated thought. There is just nothing of value at all.
nnnn, if you had a bit of humility, you might have asked yourself if you were even looking at the right comment before going on a shooting spree. Namely, it was easier, in your own arrogant mind, for you to think that both of my comments (not posts, as you wrote) were incorrect, instead of the possibility that both were correct, but that you were looking at the wrong comment. What browser and version are you using? In chrome, you would need to log on for the auto-scroll to work. (That is why I wrote the last sentence, so you could know if you were reading the right comment, since it wasn’t the parent post.)
FYI, for the computer impaired, the actual comment claims that snowden probably weakened the nsa’s capabilities, that DHS knew something, and had even warned airlines before mh17, but that our intel was apparently not good enough or specific enough to prevent mh17. Mind you, I’m not necessarily opposed to anything snowden did, just pointing out what was a possibly erroneous statement made by thisisrequired, and why.
Cheers
Snowden to be romantic and idealistic identity. In Russian hackers usually work on bandits and terrorists. In America, the hackers are working highly paid experts. Protecting Data from all the intelligence world – a complex and expensive project. Do not quite understand how he he is going to solve this problem. Where will the money or assistants?
About Snowden and Russian hackers – article (in Russian).
http://newreal.org/snoud1.htm
I’d offer my opinion, but I’m trying to more safely interact with technology and think that doing so would disclose my otherwise vague disagreement with someone … which might put me on some kind of list. ;-)
All kidding aside, the way the average person uses technology is alarming. We all know that fb is fairly suspect at protecting our privacy, yet most choose to not only participate, they also connect every other aspect of their lives to that one service. I’m not blaming fb at all – I’m merely pointing to a single online destination that people use beyond common sense. It’s convenience at the expense of privacy if you ask me.