Modern cars often come with white marker lights or daytime running lights that are on all the time, as a supplement to the primary headlights. The problem is that in some vehicle designs, these additional lights tend to make it harder to see the indicators when they’re on. [nibbler] had this very problem, and decided to solve it with a special interrupter circuit that cuts the daytime running light when the indicator is on. Even better, they used a 555 to do it!
The circuit is a simple monostable 555 circuit with an active low output. It’s triggered by the indicator signal. When the indicator is on, the circuit drives a relay to switch off the power to the daytime running light. Two copies of the circuit were built, one for the left side, and one for the right side of the car. This means that when the orange indicator is lit, it’s not being overwhelmed by the white daytime running light next to it. In fact, many automakers now program this behavior into their lighting by default.
It’s a nifty hack with a real positive safety impact. We’ve featured some other neat indicator hacks of late, like these tidy sequential indicators. Meanwhile, if you’re hacking on your own automotive lighting solutions, don’t hesitate to let us know!
Great. Now make it work at night, so I can tell whether the car coming at me is going to turn left
This was actually my main use case, given I do a lot of night driving.
First it may be illegal to change the lighting system of a car. Second, wouldn’t be more secure just to dim the white light enough so the yellow/orange indicator gets visible enough?
Also I have this problem in traffic with cars having a very small indicator in the middle of the red lights (ar the back aide of the car) and I couldn’t see the indicator blinking and wandering why that car doesn’t move forward in the empty intersection but it was going to the right and was letting walkers pass.
Indeed if the automakers were forced to provide some physical separation between the ‘always on’ headlight/running lights and the intention/action signal lights that would help hugely in making them visible. Even against the excessive glare of modern LED light clusters – does the brake light need to be bright enough to read a book by in the car stuck 3 cars back!?!?!
They ARE required to, and plenty of cars dim or shut off the DRL with activation of the turn signal in order to meet that standard if the two are too close to each other.
This entire discussion is a bunch of ignorant old grouches shouting at clouds about how federal regulators should do a bunch of things…things federal regulators did from the very start.
They really are not required to or at least not to a meaningful degree, hence the trend for wrapping the indicator in a ring of brake/running light because it looks ‘pretty’. Also who said we are all US citizens (which is an assumption on my part as other nations do have ‘federal’, just not that many English speaking ones) moaning about US legal vehicles?
I find it seriously annoying when the white running light is suddenly replaced by the orange/amber indicator blinking. In them there olden days — like, say, the very early third millennium — you placed the indicator lights so they would be visible whether the main light (or the early running lights, before LEDs and uber-fancy lighting arrangements became the norm) where on or not.
The 555 solution is nifty; but it should not be necessary to fiddle with your lights just because the auto manufacturers are more concerned with design than practicality these days … to the point that they have realised their own stupidity and implemented a similar solution.
Tsk, I say. TSK!
The solution some manufacturers take is just as bad– move the blinker to a different location. Several vehicles on the market have the blinker so far from the running lights and tail markers that I often don’t realize they are blinking. The lights were historically clustered for a reason.
There is a difference between the old clusters where lights are in similar grouped locations but still noticeably separate and the modern fad of a ring of ultra bright LED running/brake combo lights surrounding the indicator.
In the old light clusters it seems to me your indicator was usually physically spaced out enough to be really distinct from any other light that could reasonably expect to be on at the same time – usually by putting the reversing light, fog lights or just some very small empty space between them – just that small ‘black’ bar helps make the blinking light visually seperate from the other light. Though it probably also helps that around the turn of the millennium the bulbs cars used were not 50 million lumens of pure brilliant extra glare white light…
Headlights keep getting smaller with projector optics and the marker/turn lights are put even closer making things worse. Some line of LED’s indicators are better as the area of light is what we see first. This is no place for stylists to be messing around with clarity, some standards need to be met.
There ARE standards for how close the turn signal can be to a headlight bulb, as well as size and such.
Turning off the daytime running light when the turning indicator is working and both are close together is required by law in Germany (and – guessing from that – probably in most of EU).
As modern cars use controller modules for everything and the kitchen sink, flipping one or two bits somewhere in a controller module might be sufficient, no parts required. Just make the controller think it is working in a car sold in Germany or the EU.
And yes, turning indicators on several car models made in the last 10 or so years suck big time. They are tiny, close to bright headlights at the front, and close to bright break lights at the back. It seems car designers can’t stand the sight of a clearly visible turning indicator.
“turning indicator”.. I had to look that up in my English dictionary.
So English language tries to sound smart here by not simply saying “blinker”? Jesus. 🙄
That’s like with “escalator” vs “moving stairs”. None of our English school books said “escalators”..
Tja. Ziemlich lausige Schulbücher, wurde ich sagen.
“Escalotor” is the commonly used English word for “Rolltreppe.”
“Turn signal indicator” is the proper name for “blinker,” which is also a commonly used word in English.
As for “trying to sound smart,” I’d say the proper German expression takes the cake: Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger
Chill, dude. Your US bashing is getting tiresome.
Damn. Typos and no edit function.
Escalator, naturally.
Yup, I miss that edit feature too. 🙂👍
“Chill, dude. Your US bashing is getting tiresome.”
I wasn’t thinking of the US in particular here, to be honest. 🤷♂️
About the bashing.. I always thought I held back very well. It was my aim to not to be unfair, at least. And to keep being polite, if possible.
To my understanding, it happens that my fellow citizens do complain relatively little so far (online, when talking with intern. people), all in all.
It’s rather about questioning things openly if being confused, when being confronted with unlogic/weird things (laws, things etc, from our perspective).
Until a few years, most of my fellow citizens didn’t even “out” themselves, I think. They didn’t want being thrown in the nazi pot for no reason, I suppose. 🤷♂️
Speaking under correction, of course. Since I’m not really the norm, I think I can’t represent my fellow citizens properly. 🙁
“Chill, dude. Your US bashing is getting tiresome.”
I was thinking about that, why it was perceived it as such.
I suppose it has to do with different levels of sensitivity.
In parts, at least.
In my place, we don’t have concepts of “passive aggressiveness” or honest opinion vs strong opinion.
If there’s a problem, we usually talk about it without sugar coating things (generally speaking).
Same thing goes for asking things.
We also use words in different ways, maybe . ‘I’m okay” or “I’m fine” really means I’m fine, rather than “I’m totally feeling sick today but I don’t want to make you worry, so I tell you I’m fine”.
Same goes for “awesome”, which is perceived as a very positive thing 😃 rather than “OK”. 🙂
We don’t exaggerate in a positive way all the time, so to say.
That’s why phrases like “I love you” are merely seldomly used. By our logic, an overuse would wear it out, making it nolonger special.
So if someone asks us something, we just say how it is. Everything else would be be understood as lying or hypocritical by us (of course, there are also subtle ways of saying things, if needed. We do care of other people’s feelings, too.).
So that’s a cultural difference, maybe. We’re rather direct in daily life, to avoid misunderstandings, but which can be perceived as rude in other places.
Being “brutally” honest to a friend is also a matter of respect and care. Because, only if problems are being addressed they can be fixed. So we’re trying to help a friend by being “rude” (honest). Which means, we’re really caring about a friend.
Anyway, these are just my two cents about the matter. I thought about the issue for a while and that’s how things make sense to me.
Again, I can’t speak for my other fellow countrymen here. Some of them may disagree. 🤷♂️
In reply to Joshua:
I am an American, but I’ve lived in Germany continuously since 1988. More than 30 years of that time, I’ve worked in German companies with German colleagues. Unlike many Americans here, I had no affilliation with the US armed forces after I left the service in 1991. The German companies I worked for had no affilliation with the US forces, either.
Germans are often more straight forward than Americans, that’s true.
There’s still a difference between “tell it like it is” and “sneering at differences.”
Your “tell it like it is circuits” have gotten a bit crossed up with your “sneer at supposed inferiors circuits.” At least, that’s how it comes across.
Reply to Joseph:
“There’s still a difference between “tell it like it is” and “sneering at differences.”
Your “tell it like it is circuits” have gotten a bit crossed up with your “sneer at supposed inferiors circuits.” At least, that’s how it comes across.”
Assuming you’re right, how does this differ to all the English language citizens here who are not acting any better? Do they have some special rights here?
I don’t mean to point fingers, but I’m usually not using foul language all the time (f*ck, sh*t) or try to insult people on a personal level, just because I don’t like their opinion.
Again, I think I’ve managed to hold back very well here. I only a few time told them to please stop using foul language (or rather, asked them if that’s really necessary).
In comparison, is rolling your eyes at something really so much more worse? 🤷♂️
Here in Germany, rolling your eyes and making a faint *sigh* sound usually is sort of a gesture to disagree/a gesture to be annoyed and an instrument to keep yourself calm (while thinking to yourself “heiliger Bimbam.. “, holy cow). It’s sort of a stress relief that prevents aggression, too.
Like holding/rubbing your face/forehead with one hand when stressed, maybe, not sure. 🤷♂️
To what I read online, it’s less common in English language countries, though.
So it’s more of a cultural difference, too, maybe. 🤷♂️
About co workers.. The authority thing works a bit different, too, maybe. Co workers in Germany may take more initiative and do things that in the US normally is done by the superior (boss etc) only.
Like you leaving a note to your co-workers that something at work place just had broke (coffe machine etc) and that they please don’t use it. In the states, this might be some kind of an affront, not sure. It’s these small things..
Anyway, I recognize my mistake here and I would like to apologize. I’m sorry. 😔
“As for “trying to sound smart,” I’d say the proper German expression takes the cake: Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger.”
In Soviet Germany, I suppose?
I’ve learned that they used those overly bureaucratic terms in real life, actually.
Normal people didn’t use them in real life, though.
They said “Radio” rather than “Rundfunkempfangsgerät”, “Fernseher” rather than “Farbfernsehempfangsgerät”. “Auto” instead of “Kraftdroschke”. “Telephon” (old spelling) rather than “Fernsprechapparat”.
But of course, if someone works at an federal agency or in a car shop, these uber-German terms may be used, actually.
It’s still a bit snobby and over the top, though. 🙄 Just like escalator.
Escalator is the everyday word for “Rolltreppe.”
There’s nothing fancy or snobby or over the top about it.
I can’t help if it sounds like that to your “Schulenglisch” knowledge.
Communication is about getting the message across and they succeeded with “turning indicator” I think. “Blinkers” are a region specific word with a meaning that isn’t inherently obvious, you’re a human who blinks so aren’t you a “blinker”? When you said it I thought of horse blinkers or blinders, those panels by a horse’s eyes to stop it seeing scary things beside it.
Also context matters as ‘Blinker’ is a word that has many other uses, some of which could be contextually still correct enough to actually add more confusion. Turning Indicator is an exact description of the intended function – probably a better language choice.
Direction indication. Bonus point if it’s in the universal arrowhead shape.
So does this make the DRLs blink opposite the turn signal? Or does it turn the DRLs off completely while the turn signal is active?
Off completely
Does this system play nice with a canbus system ?
Better still, if your local laws permit it, disable the DRLs and improve safety for road users that don’t have them such as bicycles, animals and older cars.
I can’t connect the dots between me disabling the drls on my car and improving the safety of bicyclists. I’m driving two tons of silent vehicle. I need to at least be visible.
I can sort of see some situations it might be the case – you are already a giant metal box that is quite visible, IMO 99% of the time daylight lighting doesn’t actually make a car any more visible – really they are useful when the driver is too stupid to put on the running lights as they traverse the gloomy locations. But as those DRLs are often quite bright, they could make it actively harder to see the smaller and NOT glowing stuff though the glare and being the most obvious thing near you its easy to assume its the only thing on the road near you.
Be nice if animals came with blinkers.
Um, bicycles have “cats’ eyes” (those orange reflectors).
It’s not the same, though. 😅
Many cars automatically turn off the DRL on the side that is indicating.
You don’t want to disable DRL. I drive older cars and have the habit of turning the lights on unconsciously. When I was young I would drive in Forested areas with thick shadows. The last thing you need is someone hitting you because they didn’t see you. It is very inexpensive to run the lights compared to the benefit in making you visible.
Wait for car satellite navigation to become accurate enough so cars automatically indicate at junctions and roundabouts. It’s the doors on star trek all over again.
The problem of sign theft would go away. Plus no more visibility problems.
In the automotive lighting world this is called a switchback module and is commercially available if you don’t want to deal building and weatherproofing a PCB
https://www.diodedynamics.com/s1-switchback-module-pair.html
Could have used a, oh, wait.
Simpler solution. Put a NC relay in the white light circuit with the coil tied to the orange light. Orange on – white out, orange off – white on. This provide a double indicator that the blinker has been activated.
That would be equally confusing since instead of a blink you’d have a steady light that wavers between white and orange when seen from a little disatnce, thus hiding that there is an indicator. and as a result possibly even worse than before.
If the lights are similar intensity and near each other you might not even be able to notice it at all doing that – the eye is much better at noticing extreme brightness changes (on-off) and motion than a probably rather gradual perceived variation in colour with the persistence of vision effect blending the two into each other.
I hate this.
I get it, manufacturers want to save money by combining the indicator and DRL.
It’s distracting to look at when one side of the car goes dim then starts flashing
There seems to be some confusion around this, so I have updated the linked article with a video demonstration.
The white light shown is always on on my car, regardless of whether the headlights are on or not, so it could be considered a marker light or running light, not necessarily DRL. It is mounted on part of the (regulator approved) front bullbar, which duplicates the stock lights above it to ensure signals are clear when the bar obstructs line of sight to the stock lights.
This light cluster is separate from my actual headlights, which are always on during night/rain/fog/rural areas (but not snow because we don’t get that here). To clarify, this does _not_ turn off my headlight when the indicator is on, only that marker light.