In the long ago, pre-internet days when your clock project wasn’t an ESP32 getting its timing via NTP over WiFi, it was still possible to build a wirelessly-updating clock. All you needed was a shortwave receiver tuned to a time signal — perhaps like the National Research Council of Canada’s CHU, found on the dial at 3330, 7850, and 14 670 kHz. At least, it can be found at those frequencies until June 22nd, 2026, when the station will finally go dark.
Depending where you were on Earth, it might have been easier to tune into CHU than the United States based WWVB, or one of the various European signals like DCF77 or the UK’s MSF. If you’re not into radio, all these time signals have essentially the same job, if you hadn’t guessed: tell the time. This can be done in a variety of ways, and CHU has made use of more than one of them since its establishment in 1923.
Initially, the time was sent in Morse code, but later they added a speaking clock for easier human listening in both Canadian French and English. For synchronizing radio clocks, a series of pulses is given in DUT1 format using 0.3s pulses — which is what older clocks would have been listening to — and nowadays a digital FSK time code for more modern equipment. You can have a listen through the video by [Shortwave Listener] embedded below.
It’s not our place to judge the Government of Canada for trying to save money where they can. It wasn’t so long ago that WWVB was in danger of shutting down for similar reasons. But we’re still going to miss those beeps. If you do tune in before the station goes dark, CHU should still be giving out QSL cards. Get yours before it’s gone forever.
If you do have a clock that relies on this time signal, don’t worry. You can make your own, perhaps with a GPS time source.
Canada shutdown the weather stations back in March, now this.
The savings from shutting these down is minuscule, the impact might be subtle for some people, but it isn’t insignificant.
Relying on the internet and gps as the only methods isn’t a positive change.
When was the last time something in Canada was a positive change?
Legal weed.
Nova Scotia getting a launch pad and its conservative politicians backing off from disability/education/health cuts.
They’re making a high-speed train rn to connect Ontario and Quebec.
Less reliance on US agriculture and products such as alcohol over the last two years.
They’ve been settling problems with India and China; allowing trade between all three and helping products from China to become cheaper while — despite it being an issue in the past — cooperating on nuclear research again with India.
Closer ties with Europe and Ukraine.
just to name a few…
@rand:
You accidentally let a negative change slip into your list
‘Closer ties with Europe and Ukraine’
I’m not sure which of the two would be worse to have close ties to, but for now I’ll go with Ukraine.
idiotic take
Uh. No.
sorry.
@rand
Ukraine is deep in dept, they also are corrupt as hell (even their closest friends confirm that), they also are fanatic and violent (they try to get involved in more conflicts, FFS) and have tons of neo-nazis.
So trying to think of a benefit of ‘closer ties’, I guess that’s it then? Canada needs more nazis to applaud in parliament? I guess they ARE a good source, can’t fault you for that. Excuse me for not getting why people like nazis so much, I guess I am indeed an idiot for not getting that as selador says.
Mind you they also have lots of minerals, but those are already taken in advance by the US, so that can’t be it.
Unless.. maybe you have a sweet tooth for Roshen candy? Maybe it’s as innocent as that.
Or maybe you fear that Tr*mp will not be distracted long enough to prevent him invading Canada and you need tons of cheap attack drones, and counter tactics, which would indeed be a valid reason, and if that’s it I withdraw my remarks.
When was legal weed good?
Better than getting hassled by pigs
While the cost may amount to a rounding error in national budget, it is not zero. Utilities and maintenance are probably $10k per month. Add in personnel and admin costs and you easily have a quarter to a half million dollar expense.
Why pay this when you can poach the US (or EU, Chinese, Russian) GPS time sync for free?
@dcnpat
Because ‘things’ are increasingly more likely to happen?
Just like their ‘defence’ paradigm.
You’re right. I would say the Canadian government is penny wise and pound foolish but this goes to show they’re penny foolish too.
The current PM ha some economic expertise though.
“He graduated with a bachelor’s degree in economics from Harvard University in 1987, and earned a master’s degree in 1993 and a doctorate in 1995 from the University of Oxford, both in economics.”
He was the governor of the Bank of Canada and later was the Governor of the Bank of England, both are the central banks of their respective countries.
And he deflected Tr*mp’s attempt at destroying the Canadian economy as far as I know.
I’m going to miss them. Living in the Northeast, WWV can sometimes be a challenge to receive. CHU was always there, loud and clear. I even learned a bit of French (“Heure normal de l’Est…”). So long, and thanks for all the ticks.
The cost and maintenance of operating a high power HF station is probably the reason behind the shutdown. Maritime users are all on satellite, GPS gives accurate time to any mobile user worldwide, and there’s NTP for the rest. WWV is still on the air, so there’s still a frequency reference. Can’t say I like it, but I do understand. HF is dying, except for very specialised needs, so finding people qualified to maintain and operate CHU’s equipment has got to be a challenge.
I can’t see finding qualified people to maintain and operate it being an issue. Likely any number of hams could successfully do it and even if not transmitters like this and WWV have been running long enough that I would suspect 98 % of failure modes and other maintenance needs have been encountered previously and documented (or should have been) that anyone with passing technical knowledge could probably follow a well laid out SOP for all but the most rare issues.
I’d like a more deep/technical article on this topic (shutdown of various SW station around the world, like in France also) and the real reason behind. Surely it cannot only be for cost reason (but it could be motivated by financial gain as maybe frequency freed might be resold?)
The massive push for data centers (beyond the AI bs), the shutdown of independent transmissions like these.
Can’t imaging why conspiracy theories prevail.
What’s the link between datacenters and an antenna (even if massive) and a broadcast station? I believe and DC needs way more space than the one provided by such an antenna right?
A 500kw shortwave station will peak at somewhere between 2 and 2.6 megawatts on voice or music peaks.
Old systems where usually 50 to 60 percent efficient.
The newer class E or H and PWM or PDM mod systems get closer to 85 percent or so.
Still not insignificant when you look at say 2 meg all day. Thats , give or take, 2.3 megawatt input (and this is just the xmitter, haven’t kept any lights on at this point).
Thats 55.2 megawatts a day.
Per xmitter.
Granted, usually the time ones are between 5 and 20kw, but the math still math’s and most of the older, smaller output txs where never updated to new tech so are, again, 50 to 60 percent efficient, maybe 70 or so on a good day.
Multiply that by 8 or 9 xmitters a country has on line at a time and it does start to add up.
Don’t peaks last only tens of milliseconds? That’s handled by capacitors.
Transmitter power is rated in a variety of ways. When I was interested in ham radio circa 1965, a transmitter’s power was rated at the average input to the final output stage, including the RF input power to that stage. A 1 kW transmitter used a tiny bit more than 1 kW. If the rating is actual output power, then your estimate is correct. If the rating is ERP (effective radiated power), then who knows?
Your math is way off, and it’s easy to show. Just look at the power feeds (or for the government ones, the public power budget numbers). And you can check with your local AM radio station (they still exist). The peak power levels are what the equipment must be designed to support, but have almost no effect on monthly power budget. In fact, most of the transmitters are not built to a standard that would allow them to sustain those peaks for more than a second or two without suffering major damage, even if the power was available.
The real reason is that, to some people, redundancy looks bad. There’s a fire department, why bother keeping the fire extinguishers charged? (that’s a nontrivial cost and complexity on any moderate-sized campus).
Well, one of my former employers started cutting corners there, because there was a city fire station literally colocated. We had a fire. It was sheer luck that a couple of people didn’t die because of failed fire extinguishers. Turns out that fire extinguishers and fire departments have different roles and are not interchangeable in an emergency. Whodathunk?
The embarrassing display of innumeracy “Thats 55.2 megawatts a day.” just discredited your entire post.
CHU is much lower powered. They have three transmitters. One is 5kW and the other two are 3kW.
So, half an S unit and one S unit below WWV’s transmitters, respectively. Not negligible, technically.
It seems like everything good about shortwave is going away. Multi-lingual broadcast and news channels, Morse Code, and everything else. I waited a lifetime so when I retired I could listen to shortwave all the time. Now there’s nothing there anymore …almost not worth buying another shortwave radio set. The bands are dead. The people who have the power, and have moved all the stations to the Internet, are nearsighted, because, when the EMP hits, all you’re going to have are the shortwave and AM bands to communicate with, because the Internet will be zapped. We used to call shortwave years ago, “The Poor Man’s Internet”. But I guess that’s all over…
Also how one can get a QSL on a one way link?? I thought it required a two way communication to receive a QSL card
“Shortwave listening” is still a thing. Somewhere in my attic, I have a QSL from CHU I got when I was a teen. Collector’s item now, I guess.
But how can you receive it if it’s only one-way? How CHU was able to know you were listening to them and know your postal address to send you a QSL postcard? You must have contacted them somehow? And if so how did they know you were listening to them?
Snail mail — you send them a post card with the time and reception details, and they send you back something if correct.
Oh I see, so if anybody want a QSL from such radio, regardless of if they received it or not, just has too send a snail mail to them is that right? There’s no challenge/response mechanism in order for the radio to check if you were indeed receiving it at the time stated on the snail mail one has sent?
Sorry for the daft question and thanks for your time
I don’t know what details I would put down for a QSL to CHU or WWV, but when I did QSLs to wefax stations I would send a printout of received chart or forecast.
@Nath From what I remember, listeners generally wrote a report about the program details.
That included not just numbers (RST) but also details about the radio show.
Like the topic, quotes, radio moderator/radio host – a little review, basically.
In case of a time station that didn’t apply, of course.
But here the listener would report the band conditions on the reception side.
How strong the reception was, if there was any noise or what other shortwave phenomena there were.
The equipment of the listener (receiver, antenna etc) also was usually mentioned in the report.
That way, the radio station gathered valuable information about its coverage.
The QSL card the SWL got in return was earned because of this.
Radio stations really appreciated feedback, in short.
Back in the mid 60s to early 70s I worked SWL stations out on our farm in central Illinois. Had great reception and worked some skip. I would note time and date of reception over a 30 minute period and record the broadcast on cassette and write a short letter about who I was and about the broadcast. I was constantly mailing packages from our little post office. There was talk in town that I had gone “red” when I got my QSL from Radio China. I still have 80 QSLs from around the world. Many stations would include little gifts from their country. Radio Tahiti recorded Tahitian music on the cassette and sent it back. Radio Netherlands sent me 3 commemorative stamps in 1973 that had a big “73” for the year of best regards and good listening. I still have 2 of them. I used White’s Radio Log in Radio-TV Experimenter magazine to plot my target countries. One thing the larger stations had were called “Interval Signals” which was a tone or short song clip marking the station frequency up to 1 hour before air time usually repeating every 5 or 10 minutes. BBC had Big Ben chiming for example and Radio Poland had a short 10 sec polka music that repeated every 5 minutes. I want to get a Hallicrafters or a recapped Heathkit HR10B to get back into it but SW broadcasts are fading away. I miss the number stations. To get my fix though I go to a website ( https://radio.garden/ ) and rotate the interactive globe around to listen to world broadcasts.
Besides radio amateurs, there are at least SWLs, BCLs and listening amateurs.
Listening amateurs are hams who focus on receiving only and have an impressive equipment.
Some have no call signs, some have regular ham call signs and some have a special listener’s sign.
The listener’s “call sign” usually also involves passing an exam, by the way.
It’s being provided by ham radio clubs, though, rather than federal agencies such as FCC.
The listener’s exam often requires morse telegraphy skills, unlike how the regular ham radio exams do.
It’s sometimes also possible for a holder of a regular ham radio license to request a listener’s sign from the amateur radio club.
That really depends on the country someone lives in.
The listener’s sign allows hams to participate on special listening events.
They can earn their own listening diplomas, just like regular radio amateurs cam earn theirs.
Thanks for the explanation (even if it’s US oriented). I wasn’t aware of the distinction regarding listeners (what are BCL?), to me you were either not participating/aware of the radio world, or short wave listener (SWL) or HAM.
If I understand, as a SWL in he US, if you want a callsign (technically unecessary) you have to pass an exam right?
Joshua is German. At least, the person who regularly posts here using that name is German. This looks like him.
Hi, yes, that was me.
No license is required to listen to shortwave broadcasts (or anything else) in the US, and there are no “official” call signs for shortwave listeners. There may be some organizations who will give you a string of letters and numbers if you pass their “exam”, but it’s purely for vanity.
Here in Germany, there are DE or DEM “listening signs” issued by our ARRL equivalent, the DARC.
The exam and the listener’s sign allow participating in international QSL card exchange, for example.
So listening amateurs (German: Höramateure) can send QSL cards to the regular ham radio operator(s) QSO they were listening to.
They can also receive QSL cards that way, of course.
Some radio amateurs do then bother to confirm the listener’s report/QSL card and send a QSL card back.
I think other countries might have something similiar, but I’m not certain.
More information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher_Amateur-Radio-Club
https://www.darc.de/funkbetrieb/kurzwellenhoerer-swl/
https://www.darc.de/fileadmin/filemounts/gs/qsl/SWL_Info_2025_02_v7.pdf
The term listening amateur (“Höramateur”, an old school term) and SWL often is interchanged, but there’s a subtle difference.
An SWL is not bound to amateur radio, but more of a generic shortwave listener/radio wave listener.
While a listening amateur (with sign or not) is a type of radio amateur that just doesn’t like to transmit.
He/she knows amateur radio rules, bands and ham equipment and usually is a member of a amateur radio club, too.
Such an amateur is a special type of SWL, so to say.
A BCL, broadcast lister is basicalls an SWL that enjoys listening to commercial broadcast radio.
Decades ago, there also were TV “SWLs” that enjoyed receiving television signals from distant places and collected test patterns.
You’d think the Brits would come up with a ‘listeners license’.
The exam is for an Amateur Radio license that allows you to transmit on frequencies allocated to Amateur Radio. No exam or callsign is needed for listening.
It’s not needed but it exists, nevertheless.
It goes back to the early days when radio amateurs started out as listeners, I think.
Here in Germany, for example, during war times, many amateurs were listeners.
Here’s more information about the exam and the purpose.
https://fox12.de/ausbildungskurs/de-bzw-hoehrer-pruefung/
PS: It may seem that listening amateurs are something lesser than regular radio amateurs, but that’s not so simple.
There are radio amateurs who easily pass a regular ham radio exam but prefer not to.
Instead they prefer becoming a listener instead.
As I wrote before, licensed radio amateurs also can obtain a listener’s sign from their ham radio club in addition to having their regular call sign.
Last but not least, the latest exam for a listener might still involve a morse telegraphy exam.
The listener’s exam is more difficult to pass than a normal ham radio exam, thus.
As far as I remember, regular amateurs can do an optional telegraphy exam as part of their ham exam, too, but it has little effect on the license.
It merely results in a little note in the ham radio license (passed telegraphy.)
It’s for prestige, basically. ;)
Quick update. Just checked and couldn’t find a mentioning of a telegraphy exam anymore.
So my information was outdated, obviously. My bad. 😁
No telegraphy required for the US amateur licenses, and in fact this is a requirement disappearing around the world. There is still a commercial radiotelegraphy license issued under treaty. I got my US one just for fun, but only a few museum stations are still broadcasting.
To quote the NRC’s webpage,
“Reception reports from around the world, are gladly accepted from listeners. We will respond with a QSL card. Please send reception reports to:
Radio Station CHU
1200 Montreal Road
Building M-36
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0R6
Email: radio.chu@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca”
It does require two-way communication, but need not be by radio. ;)
Thanks!
So long and thanks for all the good times
but how will the bug planted in my brain by the Mounties be able to activate me as a sleeper cell prior to our liberation from the north? NOBODY IS THINKING THIS THROUGH!
It has been thought out. When the transmitter shuts down, the bug will activate at a specific time span later. You would do well to prepare now for what comes after June 22, 2026.
;)
You need to contact your local flock of Canada geese for further instructions. You can find them in the parc (any park).
Well, s**t. The 3330 KHz signal was one reliable shortwave time/date signal I could cross-check against as far as Delaware.
Back to square one, redesigning.
What most people seem to be missing is that the folks who really need a frequency reference can get a GPS-disciplined oscillator that sends a constant wave 24/7, which modern ham rigs, etc., can use as the reference for their PLL so that they are accurate on ANY frequency. It is more accurate than WWV because it is not dependent on ionospheric skip, which adds a lot of phase distortion. I recommend the Leo Bodnar ones, although cheap Chinese ones are available if you need to skimp. There is an internet “Time Nuts” group, who personally own rubidium oscillators and the new generation of even_more_precise devices. I recommend them if you aren’t satisfied with GPSDO or if you want to win first place in the ARRL Frequency Measurement Test.
I think WWV will eventually go, and hams may replace it with an Amateur operation. WWVB is obsolete in the face of NTP, and should shut down when most of those 1990’s “atomic clocks” (really WWVB receivers) sold at retail are gone.
WWVB is not obsolete. I very much like my “atomic” clocks that run years on a single ‘AA” alkaline cell. No network connection, no power connection, no need for GPS. It Just Works, and they are utterly reliable.
And when WWVB finally goes dark, well, I guess I’ll just serve the neighborhood with my own little 60 kHz transmitter, GNSS-disciplined and NTP-verified OXCO… Unless chip-scale atomic clocks come down in price.
Transmit your own time signal.
https://hackaday.com/2025/08/07/a-repeater-for-wwvb/
Well, Trudeau II can now rest knowing he’s not the worst prime minister ever. It’s 2 guys ahead of him now. 1. Fool that shut down Avro Arrow, and 2. Mark Trudeau III Carney who shut down CHU and keeps talking about projects he never started yet. Oh Canada.
Oh, Canada.
Going to miss CHU. Good times, good times.