1480W scooter motor guarantees head trauma

posted Oct 18th 2009 6:22am by
filed under: arduino hacks, transportation hacks

1480w-scooter-motor

[Jerome's] been working on some improvements to an electric foot scooter he picked up from a friend. He ordered up a powerful brushless motor and some lithium batteries. His system uses a belt drive and at 33 volts it can reach 25 miles per hour.

He had some problems with too much torque when the motor was first started. This resulted in unintentional wheelies, which sounds really cool if you’re not the one trying to hang on to the scooter. [Jerome] is using an Arduino to control the system so he built in the ability to gradually ramp up the speed of the motor and also added the ability to control the speed via remote control. You should note in the video after the break that [Jerome] is test-piloting his build sans-helmet.

So, we spend a lifetime and countless sums of money filling our noggins with knowledge. This is a precarious investment since a rather small bump to the melon could corrupt all of that data and end the once spectacular cognitive power. If you’re smart enough to build a foot scooter that can go 25mph, be smart enough to wear a helmet when you ride on it!



79 Responses to 1480W scooter motor guarantees head trauma

  • S says:

    Mike is very wise. Ask your local ER doctor about head injuries without helmets. After you vomit and then cry yourself to sleep, you’ll find yourself reaching for your helmet without even thinking about it.

  • Bhima says:

    As I write this I have casts on my right arm and left foot from a very minor pedelec crash. All I have to say about this, is why can’t it go 35mph?

  • Michelle says:

    A teacher of mine felt of her bike while not wearing a helmet. She didn’t drive fast, but felt in a very unlucky way. Even before the medic arrived she was dead.

    If you’re in bad luck it doesn’t need top speeds, crazy stunts or a car hitting you to get serious injured or killed.

  • Hackius says:

    I notice a distinct lack of brakes on his contraption

  • The DON says:

    Is there a brake? it doesn’t look like it. Looks like fun though.

  • sep says:

    very cool, but how useful would this really be? going 25mph on any paved surface with wheels that small and the smallest stone or crack will send you flying.

    this is an awesome alternative to a segway. i have seen segways on the road and its the most moronic thing. inside they are too big, so, this would be a perfect (and cheaper) solution

  • M4CGYV3R says:

    “If you’re smart enough to build a foot scooter that can go 25mph, be smart enough to wear a helmet when you ride on it-”

    -indoors in a narrow underground corridor lined with jagged pieces of metal while being remote controlled by your drinking buddies.

  • Alchemyguy says:

    Cheaper solution? Walk. If you’re too lazy to walk, rollerblade. Too far to rollerblade? Ride your bicycle. Low tech and you get some exercise.

  • synth says:

    wow, you guys are lamers.
    good advice, sure, but jerome’s a big boy,
    and so is everyone else here. why admonish and
    baby him? is that what he gets for sharing his
    work with you rubes?
    most people reading this have probably already
    decided for themselves if they like to wear
    helmets, seatbelts, etc or not.

  • Hackius says:

    Alchemyguy: Getting to work a sweaty mess is not an option for many of us.

  • NoOne says:

    synth, you’re an idiot. People like the guys work, and want to see him live to Hack and Make another day. It’ll be tough for that to happen if he wins a Darwin award in the process. People are “rubes,” for giving a damn? “With great power comes great responsibility.” Maybe a few of us feel responsible for pointing out, “a helmet at a time like this is a good thing.” The, “lamer,” would be the self righteous snot that points out caring about your fellow Maker or Hacker and reminding them that they are following a self injurious path is in any way a bad thing. Bad Troll !

  • Buzzkill says:

    Common sense isn’t.

    Great work though, however irresponsible the demo.

  • NoOne says:

    Put those motors in the center of roller blade wheels . Use them as the front wheel on the roller blades. Jet Set Radio for real anyone? Maybe retrofit a mountain board and have a hellacious urban assault vehicle.

  • Alchemyguy says:

    @Hackius: Sure, there’s the bus for that as well, assuming you live in an area that transit runs.

    My point is that the cheapest solution is usually the one that doesn’t require batteries or gasoline, and usually has collateral benefits to boot.

  • Wwhat says:

    They should make it slightly longer to make it more fit their adult size, I’d say 20% to 35% maybe,
    And the handlebar should be slightly higher too, unless the plan is to give it to some kid.

  • Wwhat says:

    Oh and a simple mercury switch to cut throttle when it angles too much might be an idea?

  • youevolve says:

    People should be free to do what they want until my taxes or insurance payments go up because I need to take care of the vegetable they have become. Wear a damn helmet!

    I work in EMS in an area with lots of bikes. I’ve seen too many people end up dead or worse from “little” crashes.

  • will d. says:

    “Oh and a simple mercury switch to cut throttle when it angles too much might be an idea?”

    I wonder how good the throttle control is, maybe an accelerometer would open up the possibility of endless wheelies.

  • moofmoofmoof says:

    @noOne: I call bullshit, or at least unintended consequences. “People like the guys work, and want to see him live to Hack and Make another day.” So to live a peaceful life without fear of constant nagging, one should live a life of mediocrity or brilliant silence?

    You like the guy’s work, then shut the hell up and stop offering unsolicited offtopic advice.

  • Mr Foo says:

    Damn, people are waaay, waaay, too risk-averse these days, and far too puritanical about it as well.

    ZOMGWTFBBQ HE’S NOT WEARING A HELMET! WON’T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

    If you want to live in a nice, fluffy, risk-free world, where you’ll never get hurt, you don’t go around building 35mph electric scooters and having your *friends* decide what speed you’re gonna go down small concrete corridors.

    He’s also only wearing shorts, a t-shirt, and no gloves. If he falls off, he’s gonna get hurt. His skin, his decision as to the trade-off between risk and looking like a cock.

    It’s a cool thing the guy has made. Nicely implemented, too.

  • Adam Ziegler says:

    Come on guys… he didn’t wear a helmet… its been noted… lets move on.

  • Tim says:

    Synth: I’m with you. I don’t read this site to be lectured on health and safety.

  • ACID says:

    I grew up in the 80′s. Kids didn’t wear helmets back then. If you grow up flipping, you learn how to land or you GTFO. Simple as that.

    On a side note, some people can build stuff and some people can type. This guy is very good at building stuff.

    He should gusset the back though, so he can jump and shit. haha.

  • cHaRlEs says:

    Boo hoo hoo, cry me the Amazon River. If all you guys are thinking of now is “OH MY GOD HE’S NOT WEARING A HELMET [AND THE WALLS ARE NOT FOAMY AND PADDED]“, then what a gelatinous society we have become.

    If all you are able to cogitate is how someone’s incrementally different behavior will affect your damned health care rates, and gloss over the spirit of independent engineering and heaven forbid, RISK-TAKING, then may your soul find solace in your own safe, infant-proofed, lead-free, over-insured body; maybe then it’ll leave the rest of us to have some damned fun.

    To horrify the ambulance crowd some more, here’s some more DIY electric fun!

  • napalm says:

    You guys are such debbie downers, lighten up. If you didn’t know already, people have this thing called “free will,” and these guys are using it. If you cant handle some dudes putting motors on scooters, remote controlling the speed, and not wearing helmets, please avert your eves, its that simple.

    Bottom line? Grow a pair, you have free will, exercise it. noone is forcing you to do the same thing so chill out.

  • NoOne says:

    @moofmoofmoof, Mr Foo I call bull shit. I didn’t say he should, “live a peaceful life w/o the fear of constant nagging…” I said he should take ENTIRELY UNNECESSARY and stupid risks. Mr. Foo, the jump to the idiocy of, “won’t someone think of the children,” was cute but pointless, as that wasn’t stated anywhere. “People should have a right to exercise brute stupidity,” is exactly what hacking and Making stand against. Open it, mod it, own it. But don’t stick your hands in to electronics while wearing jewelry unless you’re a n00b, don’t put up antennas at night, and near power lines, and for damn sure where a helmet when traveling at 25 miles an hour and your head has a good chance of being stopped by concrete.

  • andrew says:

    somebody dial whine-1-1 and call a waaaambulance!!

  • Skitchin says:

    Honestly…I’ve ridden BMX off and on for 12 years around extremely busy roads with borderline retarded drivers – without a helmet on. Some people can just manage their own safety better than others. It seems apparent though that many feel they should try to manage everyone else’s safety for them(wonder who they voted for?XD). Sure, I had a couple close calls over the years(chain break caused close call w/ curb stop etc), but I’ve mastered pavement tumbling and never hit my cranium or broken any limbs.

  • CH says:

    A sign of a poor argument is when the need is felt to exaggerate, ambiguate, belittle and mock; The anti-helmet crowd aren’t doing well on this front.

  • MrX says:

    What I don’t understand is how a simple action like wearing an helmet is subject to tabu. Specially when suck minor action can save your life in some cases.

  • mech says:

    “He had some problems with too much torque when the motor was first started. This resulted in unintentional wheelies” The wheelies look intentional to me. Apparently no one here has ridden a motorcycle. Taking risks is living. We are all on a count down to death anyway, why not have a little fun along the way. We are really becoming a generation of pussies.

  • I want to buy more hack reporting and less hack opinions by the reporters.

    honestly I could give a damn what the reporters think.

    you have a great website, but every time I read the commentary of someone who posted the story I debate on coming back here or not.

  • AlmostThere says:

    >Is there a brake? it doesn’t look like it.

    Sure… just jam it in reverse!

    >Oh and a simple mercury switch to cut throttle when it angles too much might be an idea?

    It would be uncontrollable as the mercury switch would make/break several times a second from any vibration.

    As for the helmet debate; as a Libertarian I would highly recommend that they wear a helmet, but would not impose that decission on anyone.

  • Skyler says:

    That’s awful tiny for a 1480W scooter motor. 1480W comes out to 2 horsepower. If that thing really delivers 2 HP, I want one. :)

  • Mic says:

    Skyler that blows my mind too, that’s a tiny ass motor. I do like the fact that it comes with a guarantee of head trauma so at least you know you are not getting ripped off.

  • SOOPERGOOMAN187 says:

    Having fun at MUN guys? I know those tunnels below the Engineering building…..

  • JON --- says:

    Nice setup, except well those tires will be warn to crap in 10 days of driving at 10 mph more then RAZOR states…..haha

  • bbot says:

    lol dozens of outraged comments.

    It doesn’t seem to make much acceleration before wheeling. Maybe stick the motor in an xkcd-style electric skateboard, so you can lean farther forward… or just make it front wheel drive.

  • babble says:

    I’ve had 2 bangs to the head, one time wearing a cycle helmet which split into two pieces and the other time I wasn’t protected and hit the back of my skull directly onto the pavement.

    The first one knocked me unconscious and I still have memory amnesia regarding that, the second one caused my entire body to buzz with pins and needles along with all of my muscles stiffing up – I couldn’t move for a few moments.

    I have no idea what damage that caused but I find learning a lot harder than I used to.

  • Steve Nordquist says:

    What, no regenerative braking yet? More practical with larger wheels and bias runners on the belt, but my scooter pizza-and-quickrete delivery team salute his efforts to make scootering more awesome without Vespa-whine.
    He can land on any 25MPH-rated mode he can choose; maybe he’s a 4-Dan (Aikido-belt wise.)

  • konstantin says:

    Those are ElectriFly Rimfire brushless motors. Here is a link to a more potent motor max. constant Watts: 1665W
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLWW1&P=6

    Looks like fun :)

  • z says:

    nice mod/hack. not sure how you could improve the power to weight ratio any further, save for using a smaller test dummy. with those tiny wheels and low ground clearance, i don’t think the scooter has enough lean angle or centrifugal force to properly negotiate turns at those speeds. i would prefer slightly taller rubber wheels with a little give in them.

    i wonder what the battery life is like with a rider his size?

    from what i can see he uses his foot on the back tire as a brake, similar to the stock design.

    that said..

    intelligent people have just as much fun and take just as big of risks as the darwin crowd. the difference is the smart people assess and understand the risks and consequences and manage them to the best of their abilities. granted, life is not fair, shit happens, and if it is your time, it is your time. that is no reason to be your own demise though.

    how many of the anti-risk-management crowd have a firewall on their network/computer? or scan for virus or malware before running a file? or have a password on their email? or make backups? or lock their doors? or keep track of where their house/car keys are? or wear a condom? or use wpa2 and/or a vpn? or have insurance for themselves or their property? or touch ground before installing their new video card or building their new system? or think before they speak?

    it is selfish and ignorant to ignore obvious and manageable risks. however, that is your right, if you so choose. at least sign your living will and save your friends and family some grief. we will enjoy your video on liveleak later i’m sure. ;)

    by the way, 60-minutes did an excellent episode about concussions, if you need ‘hitting your head is bad’ spelled out.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/08/60minutes/main5371686.shtml

  • Zeiris says:

    Helmets are for pussies. You pussies.

    If he was riding a motorbike I’d agree, but test-driving an electric scooter he put together?

    No.

  • Peter says:

    Test driving makes it all the more important to be protected. I can tell you, with a fair bit of certainty, how the motorbike will behave. If I were driving something for the first time, there’s no telling what little things might crop up that you didn’t think of.

  • Peter says:

    Also: wtf, why did my other two comments get eaten (moderated?) and this one go through instantly.

    • Caleb Kraft says:

      @Peter,
      If your comment has more than 2 links, it goes into a bucket for approval. I try to get to these as fast as I can (they’re usually the ones with good info). If your comments were hateful, beyond an acceptable level, they were simply deleted. I don’t recall right now, we had some nasty stuff coming through in some other posts, so I can’t recall all the stuff I’ve had to delete this weekend.

  • AlmostThere says:

    >Also: wtf, why did my other two comments get eaten (moderated?)
    >and this one go through instantly.

    I’ve had that happen before with no explanation either (however, it may be that *IF* it has links to other Web Pages, it will get moderated.)

  • ARTICLE says:

    it seems like lately the article topics are fine but the reviews are starting to sound really dumb’d down. new guy?

  • Jerome says:

    Welcome to healthaday.com!

    BTW, in that video I was not able to 25mph. I was going ~ 12mph. That video was my first test.
    Now, I have throttle and was able to reach the top speed of 25mph. That is not a speed that I will reach everytime I ride the scooter!

    @Hackius and The DON,

    YES there is a break on this scooter! I would not ride a 25mph scooter without brake :P

    This scooter is not very useful for the moment because of the plastic wheels and missing a wheelie bar.

    @Wwhat The STOCK scooter is design for kid and not adult. YES the scooter needs at least 1 more feet. The handle bar was lowered simply because it was more stable, I was lowering my center of gravity. The smaller I was on the scooter, the more stable and safe it was.

    I also did think about the mercury switch for temporay use. I did not test it. In the future controller I will use accelerometer to measure acceleration and angle of road to log all that info.I might use the same chip to prevent to wheelie. I could also make a wheelie bar. I could even use PID to get max acceleration fast without popping wheelie.

    @AlmostThere
    It would be uncontrollable as the mercury switch would make/break several times a second from any vibration.

    Not really, Instead of having it horizontal.
    I would tilt the mercury swith at around 30 degree. When I pop a wheelie, it would move the switch horinzontal, thus activatin the swith.

    I will be making a new video of it going faster!

  • Shadyman says:

    “A $10 head needs a $10 helmet”

    So what needs a $0 helmet? ;)

  • AlmostThere says:

    >Not really, Instead of having it horizontal.

    I still think that vibrations will splash that mercury all around (it is a liquid), but that’s a preconceived notion, I could be wrong – I’ve never tested it. I suspect that solid state Accelerometers and Gyros (with filtering) would work better.

    Write back and let us know you find.

  • gomer pyle says:

    Safety Sam says…always wear a helmet, safety goggles and boots to a pillow fight. All geeks will look gay as hell! Natural selection works, you will look stupid for life and you will not reproduce. As fast as Olympians run..they should be forced to wear helmets and pads to “protect” them.

    This isn’t a health care debate. It’s about a pretty cool hack on a POS scooter. They had fun. No harm no foul. Don’t be such pussies.

  • ST says:

    For the “wear a helmet” mob, go away and read up on risk compensation. Here’s a link to get you started – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

  • cHaRlEs says:

    “A sign of a poor argument is when the need is felt to exaggerate, ambiguate, belittle and mock;”

    Wrong. There’s not even an argument here. There is no “anti-helmet crowd”, just like there is no “anti-seatbelt crowd”. There are people who want to manage their own safety and think that nanny staters and worriful willies should mind their own business. There are people who are sick of the first response to a cool hack or project being “is it safe? can you get hurt?” because it represents how docile we have become.

    Especially when you are deeply involved in the construction and design (and subsequent testing) of a project, you understand the risks and possible failure modes MUCH better than your average Internet commenter.

    “But…but…but the unexpected!” is a poor excuse to deter people from taking perceived risks that are clouded by your own prejudices and fears.

  • cHaRlEs says:

    Also, to all the motorcycle riders telling stories of accidents and falls on their bikes:

    This is a toy scooter. You are 2 inches off the ground.

    Seriously, stop comparing this to operating a quarter ton machine at highway speeds next to two-to-three ton machines doing the same. They are absolutely not the same. You want to talk about “exaggerating”?

  • jproach says:

    ST: Whats your point? If the dudes wearing a helmet, he might be going a little faster. But chances are he will still be safer.

    Anyway:
    “This pretty good new. I am also planning to have a fan attach to the motor to give better cooling. I am making some fan design to test it out.”

    Good idea, I suspect that motor will not last long at 1400W without forced air cooling.

  • cHaRlEs says:

    “Mr. Foo, the jump to the idiocy of, “won’t someone think of the children,” was cute but pointless, as that wasn’t stated anywhere.”

    You know that “the children”, coupled with the attitudes of safety aficionados like you, are the reason why personal responsibility is so curtailed and safety regulations so draconic in Western society today.

  • Jerome says:

    @jproach >>I suspect that motor will not last long at 1400W without forced air cooling.

    The motor is rated 1480W continuous. But, I still need to be very carefull with the heat.

    Rc guys have big planes that consume 35A and more for 8 to 10 minutes run. The motor is at 90% of full throttle and the motor can take it. That is just a exemple and some guys have even more crazy setup.

    I will never use that motor for long hours. I would not even ride that scooter more then 10 minutes long!

    The other day, I tested to go to my bus stop. I when only 1km with a very good average speed of just over 20mph and that was counting a hill. My legs muscle where cramp up. I was not in a very good posture and my right leg had to work hard to stabilize my body in the scooter. There is alot of room for improvement.

    This is a really fun projet!

    @AlmostThere
    Yes I totally agree that vibration will make the mercury ball move like crazy. There is alot of vibration in that thing. I had a problem when the battery started moving foward, then it started pulling on the motor controller and remove 1 wire out of 3 that goes directly to the motor. The motor stop working ( out of phase ) and the motor overheated like hell! It happen twice. I corrected the problem for the wires but was to late and the motor is dead. I ordered a other one.

    I am planning to have a infrared sensor to read out temperature .5inch away.

  • Mr Foo says:

    @charles

    It wasn’t a jump, it was a joke, made at a somewhat pointless and very amusing (to me, at least) backlash to someone taking account of their own risk.

    Case in point. I race motorcycles on the track and I wear a helmet whilst doing it. I race snowboards, and I wear a helmet doing that, too, but when I’m simply freecarving I wear a hat. I play ice hockey, and wear a helmet, but when I’m just skating for fun and there’s not a puck and sticks flying about, no helmet. I ride a bicycle up and down the alps, and I don’t generally wear a helmet when I’m doing so. If I’m doing downhill mountain biking, though, I do.

    It’s all a question of taking responsibility for your actions. There is a depressing tendency to require any slight mishap to be the fault of someone else, for it all to end in court, and *that* is the cause of the safety paranoia, not the fact that I (or others) take personal risks. Safety paranoia happens because insurance companies won’t pay out if they can find a way to avoid doing so. Fell off your bike when you weren’t wearing a helmet? No insurance for you, bucko.

    The insurance companies, and anyone else who tries to tell me what risk is acceptable for me personally, can, if you’ll pardon the language, get fucked. I’m an adult. I can make the decision for myself.

  • ST says:

    @JPRoach – Faster, though most likely not safer. Rather than just skim that single page I linked to, do a little background reading or read a little slower. A little physics background might also help, faster=greater impact=more kinetic energy=helmet may do sod all. Cycle helmet standards (manufacturers design to meet, not exceed the standards, other wise they’d be larger, less trendy looking and damned hot to wear) only require them to protect in impacts up to 12mph . You can reach that falling off your soap box you know?

    Another link to help you along the way to enlightenment :) -
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Cycle_helmets_overview

  • Morden says:

    Meh, helmets aren’t gods gift to heads anyway. I fell 7 feet to concrete onto my chin and there isn’t much the helmet could do in that situation to dull the impact.

    Or return vision to my left eye for the next 12 hours…….

  • wolfram says:

    There are no breaks. Oh well, they just slow you down anyway. Lol

  • 0x808080 says:

    I’m not sure if this has been noted yet but did anyone notice he was testing this thing without any form of protective headgear?

  • Maj says:

    Yes, very nice of them to lend THEIR equipment.

  • matt says:

    what is with all the helmet preaching?
    Thank you for the advice mother(s). Please get off your soapbox and let me and everybody else in the world decide if they are going to wear a brain bucket.

  • MrX says:

    @matt

    http://failblog.org/2009/10/19/shopping-cart-stunt-fail/

    Would you do this without a helmet? Probably you are not here in this world anymore to reply.

  • matt says:

    Sounds like you hit your head pretty early on in life judging by your grammar.

    There is a time and place for helmets, but that is my choice, not yours or anybody else. I wear the protective gear I feel most safe with almost daily ranging from knee-pads for skateboarding, to a variety of pads for paintball. I hardly think you or anybody here getting all preachy is going to change anybody’s mind on the matter.

    I am now done with this conversation.

  • Gabe says:

    Damn, was just gonna see how u guys did the bat, then I noticed u borrowwed it-ahhh

  • Mic says:

    @ cHaRlEs I don’t care in the least bit if buddy here wheres a helmet. Yes the scooter is 2 in off the ground, his head is ~6ft +2 inches off the ground. So if one did hit their head it would be quite a bit higher then 2 inches, unless the ground came to you…

  • sparr says:

    1500W is 2HP, but you’re measuring different things. A 2HP engine puts out 2HP. a 1500W motor *takes* 1500W, and puts out some lesser amount of energy in the form of acceleration. That motor might only be 50% efficient under typical load, so it’s only putting out ~1HP.

  • Oren Beck says:

    Nice Hack!

    I am curious about thermal issues. Duty cycle effect is often an underestimation multiplying damages.

    With the rule of “down V= up A” as one further end-of-run parameter impacting thermal load. Brushless design sadly does not provide a nullification of electrical constants and curves

  • krizzy says:

    dood iv always wanted to do somthing like that to a set of roller blades lol would love to see the blue prints of it so i could try my own home brew version.
    ps to all toughs that think that helmets are a must iv been a bike/motorbike rider my whole life falling a 25kph is no biggie. iv never landed on my head. hell if my face is aiming at the ground there called hands people it’s better to have a scar there rather than on the face. hell i know even motorbike helmets dont do much unless you scrape the ground and thats only grazes the think you need if your going to be anal where a neck brace like a gp bike rider when you fall your more likely to snap your neck on impact but other than that don’t worry so much about safty
    ps if a car hits you or you get fliped at high speed you can kiss your ass good bye even if you are wearing ahelmet

  • Atuday says:

    I am working on something similar for a long board. hoping to top 40 mph. An yes I plan to wear a helmet though at that speed I dont see the point.

  • wizbang says:

    AWESOME! Great work on the scooter Mike and Co.
    Drop in for a drag at Flinders Uni next time you’re down-under. We’ll have a 3kW version ready to race you soon!

  • Toby says:

    *sigh* there != their != they’re, learn to use the right one, eh? Especially if you’re going to post a bloody video.

  • Jose Jimenez says:

    Hey, Great work, besides all the helmet talk i just wanna know… How to get my hands on a good frame, i saw earlier u mentioned a brushless outrunner quicker, but where else will i get the rest of the necesary stuff to make it, i was thinking of soldering two frames and having those bad boys on a plastic frame body go kart, something for my boy to enjoy… it seems a better idea than gas or electric just need a good cooling system maybe… any suggestions? Could i fit a bigger wheel than the small rubber ones? Large enuf to fit a good braking system.

  • Notable efforts, and rather comprehensive. Makes you seem honest, which is tricky to come by today.

  • david says:

    Imagine explaining it to the doctor, “How did he fracture his skull?” “Oh, he was riding a homemade electric scooter.” “Right….”

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