Long time readers will have followed the twists and turns of the John Deere repair saga, in which the agricultural machinery manufacturer has used DRM to restrict the repair of its tractors. It may be hot stuff on the prairies, but it matters to everyone because it’s a key right-to-repair battleground. Now the company’s attempt to throw out the latest class-action lawsuit, this time in Illinois. has failed, paving the way for a meaningful challenge.
This lawsuit is special because has the aim of determining whether or not Deere conspired to drive up the cost of repair and edge out independent mechanics. It comes against a backdrop in which their promised access to repair software which we reported on back in January has failed to materialize, and this is likely to figure as an act of bad faith.
A failing of corporate culture is that the organisation can in its own eyes, never be wrong. In Deere’s case they have accrued plenty of bad publicity in the years they’ve pursued this ill-advised business model, and in case that weren’t enough they’ve alienated their core customers out on the farms to the extent that a second-hand Deere from before the DRM era has more value than its newer counterparts. Deere genuinely do make very good tractors, so for farmers loyal for generations to turn their backs on them is a very significant story indeed. One has to ask, how much bad publicity and how many lawsuits do they have to have before someone at head office in Moline figures out that DRM in tractors (or anything else for that matter) isn’t the great idea they once thought it was? Maybe this one will finally herald the moment when that happens.
Header image: Nheyob / CC BY-SA 4.0
>>One has to ask, how much bad publicity and how many lawsuits do they have to have before someone at head office in Moline figures out that DRM in tractors (or anything else for that matter) isn’t the great idea they once thought it was?
That probably doesn’t enter into it. The fact is that they won’t stop unless they are making less money now than before the DRM era. Lawsuits included.
This^ Capitolism answers to nothing else. Not the environment, not what’s moral, minimally to what’s legal (and money can buy new laws).
Apparently enough people are okay with DRM that J.D. was still profitable enough to not go out of business in the first year of this scheme.
I suspect the majority of their income comes from fleet customers, and the rest from those who didn’t know about the issues with DRM or are purely brand loyal. The loss of income from sales is almost certainly more than made up for by the guaranteed service money (at massive markup) and artificial inflation.
Maybe Deere(and other brands)are like auto dealerships; they really make their REAL money on the service Dept and this is one dang sure-fire way to make money in servicing their product.
Capitalism is also the main reason why there are less and less people in poverty, why we have nice things, why we can talk on this website, why computers exist, why the internet exists, why phones exist, why we have healthcare, why we have social programs, why we can use supermarkets and have food delivered. And that money can buy new laws isn’t part of that, that’s mostly a US problem and the US should go back to capitalism, as they are using corporatism right now, which is a major issue.
Farmers need tractors. Although I see less and less new JD’s these days in my area. The ones I do see, are older. Over here, New Holland and Fendt are growing fast and are expected to kick JD off the first place.
They did have healthcare, social programs and supermarkets in the Soviet Union, a decidedly anticapitalist country. Not to say everything was good in that society.
I think mixture of mild capitalism and mild socialism such as is common in Europe is the be… least bad model.
Companies should be able to do business freely and let their ingenuity free – but should be kept in check by society (the government) to not do harm to others, people and the enviornment, and that they honour a level playing field. As you said. Companies will never do this by themselves.
Too strict of rules on corporations will stifle the economy and thus society as a whole.
Too few rules on corporations will harm the weak and thus society as a whole.
They also had gulags, rationed food, and day-long bread lines, so I think the collapse of communism is a good thing.
>Companies should be able to do business freely and let their ingenuity free
Indeed! That, of course, means that government-enforced DRM is a crime against humanity and that John Deere is being anticapitalist by trying to get Big Daddy State to bully his customers for him.
Um… Most of these things are not due to capitalism… Fewer people in poverty: The most rabidly unfettered capitalis time in the US had tremendous poverty. Regulation addressed it. We can talk on this website in part due to capitalism (ads support it). The internet exists due to the needs of the cold war– it was a US government program, the least capitalistic way to go (nearly, dare I say it, socialist). Why computers exist has little to do with capitalism, but I wont get into a debate where the lines are. Phones, yes, to a point, but regulation, again, made the system available. Healthcare? Are you serious? Social programs??? Are you serious???
Capitalism pays for our current social programs. More medical pioneering happens here than anywhere else in the world. Capitalism isn’t without its faults, but this country has moved so far into corporatism, that capitalism is nearly just a memory from days gone by.
The first sentence is wrong…….there are more people in poverty today than ever, due to UNregulated capitalism.
John Deere knows that A.All their competitors are doing the same thing (so no-one is going to switch to a competitor over this), B.Their customers (especially big corporate farms, equipment rental places and contract mobs who go out to farms with their gear and do the work) will continue to buy/rent/use John Deere gear, C.Supporting right-to-repair to the level people are calling for exposes John Deere to potential legal risk if someone modifies their tractor in a way that cause problems (makes it dangerous or hurts someone, makes it emit more pollution than its allowed to emit or something) and D.Supporting right-to-repair might give hackers a way to get features they didn’t pay for or aren’t paying the subscription for somehow)
“[…]D.Supporting right-to-repair might give hackers a way to get features they didn’t pay for or aren’t paying the subscription for somehow)”
There’s always at least one lickspittle…
I wonder if they could include folk who had to pay for the fallout in a lawsuit like this: e.g. the folk who had to pay extra for their produce, or contribute more to federal farming funds, for all the farmers who found out the hard way their potentially years-long investment in a well-established product was, when they could finally make such a purchase, not at all what decades of faithful customers’ experience and wisdom had promised.
Perhaps, but if I understand it properly, they’d have to be able to prove specific damages.
I own a small S series Deere tractor and been ripped off for the 12 years I have owned it just 1 example I attempted to purchase a draw bar at Tractor Supply and they informed me if it’s for a Deere the don’t have it TS. Wanted $30.00 for most brands and Deere wanted over $200.00 therefore I made myself one.I can’t imagine what farmers are going through with the expensive equipment they have,In addition they removed most of the local people from being a Deere dealer and handed them out to large corporations such as Ag-fab who is terrible at sevice and price.
“I can’t imagine what farmers are going through with the expensive equipment they have…”
Said by every factory ever. Locked into all that expensive equipment they need a factory rep to fix for them.
Huh… what would have stopped a 3rd party from making one of those bars?
Big time consuming threat to sue. If you cant afford lawyer time, you fold your tent and go away.
Good luck trying to sue a Chinese manufacturer selling on Aliexpress. (But then there’s the problem of finding parts that meet quality requirements.)
That’s a Tractor Supply problem. Nothing keeping them from selling parts and accessories for any tractor. JD doesn’t limit what you can hook up to your tractor anyway.
Tractor brands are like camera brands.
The tractor is the back, the lenses are the accessories.
A farmer with a bunch of JD accessories is pretty much stuck buying another tractor. Cost ratios between lenses/back and accessories/tractor are similar.
There is no adaptor.
Build an adaptor (won’t be trivial) and many lawyers will cheer. They love billable hours.
Just build an accessory that speaks deer without their ‘blessing’, see how that goes. Bring lube.
On the other hand, if plans for an adapter spread around and it’s intractable to figure out where they came from, and a bunch of farmers make them for their own use without telling anybody, the lawyer cost/benefit ratio starts to shift.
The idea that you say farmers just make their own parts is not making profitability a priority. We cannot “make” much and get real work done. But Deere prices are an absolute disgrace.
I’d say it depends; you’re not making everything but the more they charge the more it becomes worth trying, unless something broke without a spare and you can’t patch it together temporarily, so you need a replacement right now.
Just followed a few links deep and discovered that Harley Davidson has also been caught-up in such shenanigans…
This is big news for those of us trying to get folk who don’t care to care…
How many HaD readers are repairing tractors? Or have shops to repair Macs? Versus how much HaD features this topic, as if hackers need permission to take things apart?
Isn’t there a clock that needs featuring?
It’s not as much about ‘ permission to take things apart’ as much as the factory bricking it when you do, and when you use a lot of horsepower to drag iron and steel through soil and stone maintenance is constant. Mercedes does the same at least on their diesel vans. Others as well. These create monopolies and cost everyone more to at least some degree.
Not monopolies as long as there are other tractor makers.
It may not be a monopoly but if there are only a handful of companies making these things and all of them are very strongly anti-right-to-repair, its just as bad as if there was a monopoly.
Probably more than you think. If you really don’t like it there are 4 other articles everyday and it isn’t the only blog in the universe.
I assume you’ve never tried to maintain, service, or repair a modern car, either?
Yes, I have. Which is why I don’t own one. I have also spent all day and into the night in 100 deg F with a cutting torch and all the usual air tools to cut off and replace the left end of a combine header and the sickle bar thingy. Underneath it half the time holding it in position with my knees. It was nice to be in the shade.
I drive a tractor at our boat club, and have helped maintain it. Not a JD, phew.
If you’re new to the planet, the JD DRM issue is the poster child for the whole ownership vs license/subscription battle, and right-to-repair issues…. which hits pretty close to making, fixing and hacking.
John Deere doesn’t care that a farmer or independant technician can’t repair their equipment – they don’t make enough of a profit for it to matter. Their bread and butter is the massive corporate farms that have taken over American agribusiness. Same reason the ice cream machine at McDonalds never works and corporate doesn’t care, it’s a contracted repair lease that they make a fortune off of that is a line-item writeoff for a multibillion dollar conglomerate.
Smaller still bigger.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog3/node/1035
This may cost them deerely.
We can hope “sew”.
Surely “sow”?
This type of issue is becoming more widespread. Since 2021 BMW Motorcycle owners have been told that BMW no longer publishes or releases Factory Service Manuals for any models. Prior to 2021 they were at least available on DVD.
John Deere “throwing out a ***class***-action” lawsuit.
Such a good (farmer) joke !!!
‘A failing of corporate culture is that the organisation can in its own eyes, never be wrong.’
Is the author saying that all corporate cultures have this problem and no other (government, religious) organizations?
Because WTF?
I think that sentence is missing a ‘Deere’s’.
Spelling of ‘organisation’ is approved.
Work on other words, more creative.
Yes, try to get the goverment to admit they are wrong. You cant even take your business elsewhere.
Vote with feet.
Is drastic but history. Time to go is time to go.
So just swap “corporate culture” with “organization culture”, done
You misspelled organization btw
It’s not all organizations either.
Peeple dat ownlie no won whey two spel ah wort ave kno emaganation.
The right to repair is a bigger issue than just John Deere software.
I work as territory sales manager for O’Reilly Auto Parts. Over the past few years OE parts are becoming scarce to source because of the OE holding onto patents longer and making suppliers sign non-compete contracts in making parts available to the aftermarket. The excuse from dealerships and the OE blaming COVID and the strike is bullshit.
If the OE can not supply or order enough stock from their vendors to make the parts available in a reasonable amount of time the parts should be released to the aftermarket for sale.
Example, parking brake shoe for a 2021 2500, 3500 and 4500 Chevrolet Express van. This part is on backorder from the OE with no ETA and is not available from the aftermarket. How many times does a simple part need to be redesigned to keep everyone else out so the OE can become even richer and greedier.
How much call is there for parts on cars still under warranty?
Even for wear items, I’d expect the suckers to still be going to the stealership.
Parking brake shoe? So even with electric e-brakes you can still burn those off by forgetting? Or do the useless electric brakes ruin them by failing?
I’m so happy not to have a new car.
I’ll say this for O’Reilly. There is no point in going to NAPA anymore. Same chinesium junk everywhere. You just have to know what’s useless, the parts guy sure won’t. (10% chance at NAPA, 5% at O’Riley, 100% that Autozone tech will claim to know, but be wrong.)
Any chance your computers could record and report the return rates by part source and make that available to the parts tech and customers?
Some of your suppliers would have kittens when they find out. Those suppliers are _hated_ by your customers.
I know for a fact that when accepting returns your techs have no way to flag a particular item as being made so wrong as to be useless.
Didn’t happen yesterday, so ‘fact’ might be a stretch.
(reading mind) Yes, I agree, some customers ARE idiots. But patterns form quickly.
I bet the majority of those Express Vans are used as fleet vehicles and were out of warranty by mileage in the first year. Most fleets find it way cheaper to have their own mechanics so depending on tonnage of salt dumped on your area roads you may need to replace all of the parking brake components every other year. rust never sleeps.
Like a Deere caught in the headlights!
opportunity ?