[EXO Labs] demonstrated something pretty striking: a modified version of Llama 2 (a large language model) that runs on Windows 98. Why? Because when it comes to personal computing, if something can run on Windows 98, it can run on anything. More to the point: if something can run on Windows 98 then it’s something no tech company can control how you use, no matter how large or influential they may be. More on that in a minute.
What’s it like to run an LLM on Windows 98? Aside from the struggles of things like finding compatible peripherals (back to PS/2 hardware!) and transferring the required files (FTP over Ethernet to the rescue) or even compilation (some porting required), it works maybe better than one might expect.
A Windows 98 machine with Pentium II processor and 128 MB of RAM generates a speedy 39.31 tokens per second with a 260K parameter Llama 2 model. A much larger 15M model generates 1.03 tokens per second. Slow, but it works. Going even larger will also work, just ever slower. There’s a video on X that shows it all in action.
It’s true that modern LLMs have billions of parameters so these models are tiny in comparison. But that doesn’t mean they can’t be useful. Models can be shockingly small and still be perfectly coherent and deliver surprisingly strong performance if their training and “job” is narrow enough, and the tools to do that for oneself are all on GitHub.
This is a good time to mention that this particular project (and its ongoing efforts) are part of a set of twelve projects by EXO Labs focusing on ensuring things like AI models can be run anywhere, by anyone, independent of tech giants aiming to hold all the strings.
And hey, if local AI and the command line is something that’s up your alley, did you know they already exist as single-file, multi-platform, command-line executables?
Hi, Windows 98SE still has a small community.
There are things like VBE9x, KernelEx, unicows.dll and gdiplus.dll and the R. Loew Windows 98 Patches that keep Windows 98SE current.
DirectX 9c and .Net Framework are also possible. KLite codec pack can teach Media Player net tricks.
With KernelEx Project, Windows 98SE gets a Compatibility Tab.
It’s possible to have Windows XP SP3 application compatibility and beyond.
I’m just saying, because Windows 98SE sort of has a cult status among retro gamers (perhaps more than Windows 3.1 has).
It’s the oldest “OS” that can run the mainstream applications and games of the 2000s and 2010s.
It’s only real downside is limit to one CPU and to 32-Bit/i386, I think.
To some, Windows 9x also is an art style, even.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjMKwLkgS-k
Oh, and Windows 98 does support USB peripherals, of course. Like USB keyboard, mice and joysticks.
It’s just that during hardware detection phase, the USB controller might be detected and then the PS/2 legacy emulation provided by BIOS gets disabled.
So Windows 98SE wants to ask for location of an USB driver, while the USB keyboard/mouse nolonger works.
That’s when a PS/2 or DIN keyboard (or serial mouse) might be needed.
After driver installation is completed, USB keyboard and USB mouse are working just fine.
So what’s wrong with Linux or BSD? Why do you have to go back to a 25 year old, commercial, no longer supported operating system to gain independence from a “tech company?”
Sure, getting the LLM to run on old hardware with an old operating system is a hack. It just doesn’t line up well with avoiding lock in to an operating system or hardware system.
“So what’s wrong with Linux or BSD?”
It’s annoying? Overrated? Omnipresent? 🤔
Or was this a rhetorical question? 🤷♂️
Factual question.
Windows 98 is out of support.
It belongs to Microsoft – strictly speaking, you need a license to use it.
It won’t run (properly) on modern hardware.
Windows 98 was a virus magnet, like all Windows versions.
Windows 98 was strictly x86.
Why would you intentionally choose that when you could use Linux or BSD and have:
Current support from various sources
Free (in the sense of freedom) – you are independent of the “tech companies.”
Free (in the sense of doesn’t cost you anything) – you don’t have to try to buy a license and register a piece of 25 year old software.
Secure against most computer “infections.”
Runs on modern hardware (and old hardware) as well as on very different hardware (ARM, x64, etc.)
I use Linux every day. I deal with Windows at work everyday. I find Windows annoying, overrated, and omnipresent. I don’t need to put up with Windows’ crap in my free time doing things I want to do – I especially don’t need to put up with ancient Windows crap.
“I use Linux every day. I deal with Windows at work everyday. I find Windows annoying, overrated, and omnipresent. I don’t need to put up with Windows’ crap in my free time doing things I want to do – I especially don’t need to put up with ancient Windows crap.”
Hi, I think that modern Windows and Linux aren’t much different here.
They’re both “pushy” in some ways.
Linux environment feels a bit like a sect and part of its user base are acting like missionars at times (to be fair, it was worse in late 90s/early 2000s I think).
In other words, hearing about Linux over and over again thus shares a reseamblance to hearing words of Scientology or Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Windows 3.1 or 98SE had a friendly face, though.
A lot of young adults also have nostalgic feelings for them.
They’re both from a time when Microsoft still encouraged indidualism.
The Windows 9x GUI also was a role model for many *nix systems.
Breadbox Ensemble (PC GEOS) added it as new standard UI, even.
If I want a stress free experience, I’d rather use macOS (Mac).
It doesn’t require that I compile my own kernal, for example. 😀
A re-installation also isn’t needed each time a new OS is out.
” In other words, hearing about Linux over and over again thus shares a reseamblance to hearing words of Scientology or Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
But for a relative handful of exceptions, Windows is basically crammed down everyone’s throat by OEMs/Microsoft. Oh… and look up the ‘Halloween Document” and get back with us. If anyone is behaving like a cult member, it’s a person who’s upset that other, better, choices exist.
“If I want a stress free experience, I’d rather use macOS (Mac).”
So, you decry computer cults but recommend Apple? LOL.
If your argument is that Apple provides the most appliance-like experience for computer users who want an appliance, that may be true. But it’s also true that you’ll pay 2x or more for the same capabilities you’d get on PC hardware and in the end you’re chained back up to a corporate giant.
There was an old saying in the IT world many years ago: “Nobody was ever fired for specifying IBM.” Let me translate that for you: “Most people are sufficiently ignorant of other, better, options that if you (also in ignorance of better options) default to specifying IBM hardware, your decision won’t be held against you.”
That was the 60’s/70’s, but same mentality drives continued use of Microsoft Windows now.
“Linux environment feels a bit like a sect and part of its user base are acting like missionars at times (to be fair, it was worse in late 90s/early 2000s I think).”
Linux users share their experience so that less knowledgeable people will understand that alternates choices exist… and to neutralize the FUD that Windows cultists (and Microsft shills) are fond of spreading. Beyond that, nobody cares what you chose to run on -your- computer.
I find Linux annoying and overated with each distro doing vendor lock in nonsense. Porting LLM’s to Win 98 is more of a cool hack to me
Since when do I need support to run a computer? It’s not hard. Also, windows is free and if you own the binaries you own the software. Licenses are just paper, you can ignore them.
Windows is NOT free. If you buy a computer with Windows on it, somebody, somewhere paid for it. On a new computer, the price of Windows is rolled into the price of the PC – you don’t see it as a separate item.
Interesting view. Microsoft may, and probably does, disagree with you. Linux is also free, and the paperwork says so.
I say, run the OS you want, and quit bitching about which one is better. We ALL know that the one WE run is the best, anyway.
/s
“Sure, getting the LLM to run on old hardware with an old operating system is a hack. It just doesn’t line up well with avoiding lock in to an operating system or hardware system.”
So.. if it was about ReactOS – maybe on an VIA Epia board (VIA C3 CPU) – instead of Windows 98 it would have been different? 🙂
“So what’s wrong with Linux or BSD?”
On a second thought, it would be really cool if such a thing had been done with an old Unix workstation.
SGI Irix, Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM AIX.. Those old Unixes were awesome.
25+ years ago, the level of professionalism was so much ahead of that of hobby OSes like Linux or Minix.
In fact, I would be excited to see an LLM port to DESQView/X using early versions of DJGPP.
The X11 server (X11R5) and motif libraries are available, among other things.
That platform really needs more love, I think.
Insert obligatory quote from Dr Ian Malcolm: “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.” ;-)
This should have been tested on 95 or XP. Because of the 50% crappiness rule in windows.
95 good, 98 bad, Xp good, Vista bad, Seven good, 8 bad…
Win98 wasn’t that bad by all means, but it is not really that different from Win95, at least UI wise. You forgot about Windows ME.
So it is rather:
9x good, ME bad, XP good…
Windows 95 surely wasn’t good. I remember it from when it was new.
The issue with that tick-tock scheme is that sub versions exist.
There wasn’t just one Windows 95, but RTM and A/B/C (OSR versions, the USB version).
Windows 98 existed as 98 (had stability issues) and 98SE.
Then there was Windows Me. Or Windows NT line before XP (SP0 to SP3).
Windows NT 3.1, 3.5, 3.51, NT 4 with various Service Packs.
Windows 2000 with various Service Packs.
Even Windows 3 had various versions (3.0, 3.0a, 3.0a MME, 3.10, 3.11, Pen Computing edition, Modular Windows, Win-OS/2, WfW 3.10, WfW 3.11, Windows 3.2 Chinese).
Windows 2 had various releases, too. Plain edition, /286 edition, /386 edition. Versions 2.02, 2.03, 2.10, 2.11 etc.
98 was good though (especially after 98SE came out). I found that it fixed a lot of problems that 95 had. You missed Windows ME anyway:
95 bad, 98 good, ME bad, XP good, Vista bad, 7 good, 8 bad, and 10 is the combo breaker because it’s also bad.
And there also was Win2k, which is also considered good by most people that used it! Well, I guess the 50/50 rule doesn’t really apply.
Windows 2000 was held in high regards by Linux fans I do remember.
It was the only MS Operating System that they had respected.
I love this, win10 good win11 bad bad bad
Windows 10 was good? I have different memories about it.
I remember how Windows 10 had been forced on Windows 7 users years ago, against their will.
About that sly upgrade pop window that appeared again and again in taskbar.
In its last version, the closing symbol was manipluated to make it a “yes, I want to upgrade” button.
From a technical point of view, Windows 8.0, 8.1, 10 and 11 are one group.
Windows 11 does at least have an ARM port by now.
23H2 seems to be okay so far, but not “good” in the usual sense maybe.
Cool, but I want to run it on a Kaypro II, and have a real conversation with Elise.
Don’t forget, the usb keyboard protocol is backwards compatible and the PS2 port is electrically compatible with usb signals, those PS2 to USB adaptor plugs were usually just passing through the right connections.
Hi, yes and no. There were passive adapters, that’s absolutely right.
I assume you’re thinking of those green and purple ones.
Though I think the logic was located in the mice and keyboards (they were smart).
They were dual protocol and could sense if a PS/2 port (or DIN port for keyboard) or USB was on the other side.
Likewise, there had been mice which did support MS Mouse protocol via both PS/2 and RS-232 port.
Though pinout was different, so not all adapter/mice combinations had worked.
What also existed were these USB to PS/2 converters that looked like a chubby dongle with cables attached to them (like an Y cable with a plastic block in the middle).
They contained active electronics and were more compatible.
Anyway, thank you very much for mentioning the adapters/converters, I had forgotten about them.