Watching [sprite_tm]’s build of a handheld 486-based gaming computer, we got to thinking about retro computers and the eternal questions of how much of the computer needs to be actually “old” for it it be retro. Where is the soul of a retro computer? The CPU? The old yellowing plastic case? Maybe it depends on what you’re trying to get out of the hobby.
There is of course a spectrum of people playing around with old computers. For some people, let’s call them “vintage computer enthusiasts”, half of the fun is in keeping the actual old hardware running. This group tends to know what teletype lubricant smells like, and how to tell which capacitors need replacing.
For others, “team retro”, the joy is in using the machine itself, whether that be teaching the old dogs new tricks, or simply loading up nostalgic video games. Team retro is more content with emulations or emulations that are wrapped up neatly in hardware workalikes. They know which registers need POKEing, and whether or not Commander Keen is running at the right framerate.
I think [sprite_tm]’s project falls in with yet another camp, the retro-reengineers. Here, the idea is to step through the engineering lessons of the past by re-designing something from a bygone era. So when [sprite_tm] went with a period 486 CPU backed up by a modern FPGA, perhaps ironically borrowing code from the modern MiSTer project, it makes sense for his goals. Retro-reengineers know the bus architecture and the memory timings, and they are reinventing the wheel as a learning experience. Or in the case of [Voja Antonic]’s imaginary four-bit machine, it’s a teaching experience.
How you work often reflects what you’d like to get out of the project, and at Hackaday, of course, we love all of the above! We’ve identified at least three broad schools of fooling around with old computers. Are we missing any?
Im not as nostalgic for the function of a retrocomputer as I am for the physical format. Ive about designing a C64 style system using a comexpress or pc104 board with mxm graphics. Near modern power with usb and hdmi but that 80s feel. But pc104 boards are pretty pricey and a custom carrier board to breakout a comexpress’s capabilities is ambitious. So ill probably keep dreaming.
PC-104 guarantees you at best a laptop class CPU from 5 years ago for far more money than a Mac Mini even at mid 2026 prices.
There have been a number of commercially available C64 breadbin cases for mini-ITX PC motherboards over the years. Why not one of those?
Notice that I first said ComExpress, mentioning pc104 was only there to later be able to complain about their crazy high pricing, while complaining about the poor selection of carrier boards for ComExpress.
And why not use some OTS MiniITX case, because there would be no hack involved in that so it wouldnt have been worth mentioning here. duh
For me, it’s the simplicity of old systems. A refreshing break from the incomprehensible complexity of modern computing.
Agree with that.
You can not if ever touch or reach the hardware on modern stuff.
There’s another school that I call Bytepunk. It’s making modern hardware look retro.
That’s where I am. I have little patience for playing around with retro systems. I already lived through it; I don’t want to do it again. But I love the way old machines look, so that’s what I re-create for my modern hardware.
I’d like to see some anti-Bytepunk, then: take all the modern stuff, go back to just before the evil crept in, and rebuild everything without the evil, but with the lessons learned in the meantime.
On the old machines I like the sound engineering, and I dream of what we would get with that engineering without the race-to-market and research-secret-keeping to slow down the competitor. It would probably look kind of oldschool, but being modern on the inside (like spirit-inside, not case-inside), just like Bytepunk, but also completely different, and much harder to pull off for sure.
a spectrum of people
I feel personally attacked
I now have a picture of a fake tube radio in my head.
One of those cheesy plastic boxes with cheap transistor radio PCBs inside, plastic tubes sticking out and lots of hot glue inside.
Made to enjoy the good old times™, but “improved” with latest™ solid-state technology. Ew.
At least this one uses a real 486 processor and contemporary video chip. The FPGA is just used to create a custom chipset.
That’s fine, really. I got the picture while reading the comments and the general idea about stuffing new tech into old shells (such as ITX mobo in a C64 case or Raspi in a NES shell).
I mean, the personality of a vintage PC is preserved as long as the modern parts have a link to the past.
Replacing slow DRAM with SRAM is a fine modernization, for example, I think.
Or by selecting CF cards as replacement for IDE HDDs.
CF cards have true-IDE mode, after all and are natively IDE drives, still.
Or by adding a new/upgraded motherboard in an old glass terminal,
when same time the keyboard or CRT remain functional.
Same goes for co-processor boards. There were modern 8088 cards for Commodore PET series that added MS-DOS conpatibility.
All without hurting original functionality.
There are many more non-destructive upgrades/modifications in that same spirit, I think.
What I like about retro computing and gaming:
1. Software ownership – you bought it. You own it. You can run it forever, sell it to somebody else, rent it out, whatever. It’s yours.
2. Hardware character – Each computer was better at different things, and had various qwirks sure to different graphics capabilities, different sound generation, different speed of competing and storage, different memory sizes, different control methods, etc. it gave the software running on it a certain character or texture, even if ported from another machine.
3. Physicality – you actually had to interact with the machine itself, which had a certain amount of heft. It might have the keyboard embedded, and probably had a bevy of D-sub ports on the back that you screwed cables into. Cartridges installed with a solid thunk. Starting new software generally involved turning the machine off and then on again to force a reboot, and getting it to run anything involved typing commands on the keyboard. Solid and tactile!
4. Audible – disk drives and printers especially made some interesting sounds., especially when drives seeking or realigning the heads. There was often an internal speaker that gave extra beeps and ques about the status of the computer. Keyboards were clacky, cartridges installed with a certain chunk, even the monitor made that high pitched whine that let you know that demons were being summoned to draw each pixel…
5. Comprehensibility – you could see the traces on the PCB, which was at most two layers. You could still trace signals with an oscilloscope.
The hardware was small enough to hold all the details in your head. There was little or no OS, and you could know the machine inside and out.
7. Lifestyle – Ultimately, you were getting an experience with a computer, and maybe a community, a way of thinking, a microcosm of art, and a geeky sense of humor. There were micro cultures among the users of each machine that b had their own values and jokes and aspirations.
That’s what retro computing means to me.
It means my culture, my values, my people, my skills, and my history, and now, an eternal sense of loss…